Help please a good airbrush for a beginner.

[perdu]

I don't know if it would help but I used to use a burnishing tool to rub down the masking tape when masking off

The tool is basically a spike of round section steel pointed with a round-ish tipped "point" that my beloved used to use when she used to "work" pewter sheet, you can press down very much exactly around the edges of masking tape with it even if the tape was cut in a curve

the extra presssing usually sealed the edges and stopped leak-under

I have to say the "spray the undercolour after masking to seal the finish" is a good 'un, I like that one too

I used Klear for its basic modelling use but am intrigued by the other uses you guys have come up with since "way-back-in-time"

I still have mine since the eighties, SWMBO never did get to use/waste it on a floor

[Skii]

dr_gn said:

Skii said:

dr_gn said:

Skii said:

With masking I make sure the paint is thin and sprayed at low pressure, the trick is not to wet coat the model, just keep the spray at 90 degrees and stop if you see the surface get wet, this will ensure nothing bleeds under the tape - you might end up with a rough texture to your paint as the paint dries before hitting the model - easily remedied with a quick wipe with a 4000 grit micromesh cloth.

Have you ever tried applying a coat of whatever colour is under the masking tape - to stop bleeding? Seems like a good idea if it is indeed just a single colour you're overmasking.

No to be honest I don't think I have, sounds like a valid technique though

What I don't get is: with any of the 'overspraying' techniques - either base colour or Klear...how do you know the gaps in adhesion of the tape are filled? Klear is so thin that it's almost impossible to build up much more than a few tens of microns I'd imagine. With paint, if you spray it thick enough to be effective, wouldn't you get a 'threshold' line where the tape was (or even peel the paint off the sparaye darea)?

Do these techniqes work in a different way from simply filling the gaps up?

Edited by dr_gn on Wednesday 25th August 20:52

Simple answer - by ensuring you lay enough paint down, multiple coats - keep each coat thin and spray until you are happy, and then spray another for good measure. Its also imperative to use a good qulaity masking tape like Tamiya and ensure the tape is thoroughly stuck down. Naturally laying down so much paint will cause a build up when you remove the mask - thats where the micromesh comes in Its exactly the technique I used on my Su-27 , the key is taking your time and not to wet coat

[dr_gn]

Skii said:

dr_gn said:

Skii said:

dr_gn said:

Skii said:

With masking I make sure the paint is thin and sprayed at low pressure, the trick is not to wet coat the model, just keep the spray at 90 degrees and stop if you see the surface get wet, this will ensure nothing bleeds under the tape - you might end up with a rough texture to your paint as the paint dries before hitting the model - easily remedied with a quick wipe with a 4000 grit micromesh cloth.

Have you ever tried applying a coat of whatever colour is under the masking tape - to stop bleeding? Seems like a good idea if it is indeed just a single colour you're overmasking.

No to be honest I don't think I have, sounds like a valid technique though

What I don't get is: with any of the 'overspraying' techniques - either base colour or Klear...how do you know the gaps in adhesion of the tape are filled? Klear is so thin that it's almost impossible to build up much more than a few tens of microns I'd imagine. With paint, if you spray it thick enough to be effective, wouldn't you get a 'threshold' line where the tape was (or even peel the paint off the sparaye darea)?

Do these techniqes work in a different way from simply filling the gaps up?

Edited by dr_gn on Wednesday 25th August 20:52

Simple answer - by ensuring you lay enough paint down, multiple coats - keep each coat thin and spray until you are happy, and then spray another for good measure. Its also imperative to use a good qulaity masking tape like Tamiya and ensure the tape is thoroughly stuck down. Naturally laying down so much paint will cause a build up when you remove the mask - thats where the micromesh comes in Its exactly the technique I used on my Su-27 , the key is taking your time and not to wet coat

Skii,

The Su-27 looks superb.

I never really had any problem with bleeding with Tamiya tape on a recessed panel line model (apart from the odd capillary run along a line. Nor have I ever had a problem when masking windscreens. It was with the Airfix Sunderland with the raised rivets that caused me a bit of grief. Getting the balance between a smooth surface (ie a bit of wetting) and having the paint thick enough (but not too dry) to not bleed under is a delicate balancing act. I guess it's part of the learining process of using an airbrush at the end of the day.

[Anthony Micallef]

Eric Mc said:

Thinner thuins paint.

Klear doesn't.

(Although people do use it as an additive to Tamiya varnishes - it really is a "wonder" liquid - just don't drink it).

I'm well aware of what they each do. I meant I was getting confused between what I was told it was that stopped paint bleeding.

[Eric Mc]

It seems to create a barrier along the edge of the masking tape which blocks any paint gettting under the edge of teh tape. I've tried it and it does seem to work.

I haven't noticed any lip of hard Klear developing when the masking is taken away.

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

It seems to create a barrier along the edge of the masking tape which blocks any paint gettting under the edge of teh tape. I've tried it and it does seem to work.

I haven't noticed any lip of hard Klear developing when the masking is taken away.

Yep I wouldn't expect to see a lip with Klear: it's too thin even after multiple coats, which is why I wondered how it worked. I meant a lip of base colour paint, if you put enough on to effectively seal the edge.

Probably the best way is to do what Perdu said and burnish it down, just before spraying and hope for the best.

Of course you should never use the factory edge of the tape either - too much dust and crap on it. I always slice it with a scalpel before applying it, which helps a bit.

[Eric Mc]

I do that too. I also keep the tape in the special Tamiya Plastic Tape Holder - which helps heep the dust out.

[Red Firecracker]

Now there's a question. Do you prefer sticky side outwards (and thus liable to picking up fluff etc) or sticky side inwards and thus a slight pain to pick up off the plastic cutter to pull out a new bit?

[Eric Mc]

I just store the tape in the holder. I remove it completely when using it and then pop it back when finished. As DrGrn advises, I also trim away the outermost edge of the tape before cutting the actual masking strips as the outer edges is where any dust and fluff will build up.

[dr_gn]

Red Firecracker said:

Now there's a question. Do you prefer sticky side outwards (and thus liable to picking up fluff etc) or sticky side inwards and thus a slight pain to pick up off the plastic cutter to pull out a new bit?

I'm a sticky side inward man myself.

[chrisga]

Ok dumb question approaching.....

re airbrushes....

I am an average standard modeller, and so far I only do tamiya 1/12 motorbikes as thats where my passion lies, but some of the planes and cars I have seen do look amazing and i may be tempted one day (see here for my work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98882529@N00/sets/721... and judge the standard for yourself). I have never used an airbrush and have achieved all of the finishes you see there with a paintbrush, or for some of the fairings i'll hold my hands up to using the odd can of tamiya ts spray. Strangely the finishes I sometimes get using a brush make me more proud than the actual finished article.

So, bearing that in mind, and with a slight scepticism that it will actually improve my modelling standard and overall experience, my father has offered me the use of a small airbrush he bought for something else to have a go with as he knows i enjoy the modelling in the winter. So, having read through this thread I have no idea whether it is a good airrush or not, but have realised that as his compressor is huge I will have to use a can for the propellant. As i said i know nothing about this spraying...

The next dumb question is that I have a pretty healthy selection of the little tamiya paints in most of the X-* and XF-* colour ranges. The water soluble ones - is it acryllic? I dont think its enamel but I may have that the wrong way round. Can i use these in an airbrush? Would i have to ermm water them down? And what with. If its water soluble does that mean i use water as the thinners. That doesnt seem right to me, so is there a special thinners for these paints? Do i need to get something special to clean the airbrush with, or will water do it again?

I have some tamiya masking tape that I use for painting, but when you are airbrushing do you have to mask absolutely everything. Im just thinking that masking some of the engine parts is seriously fiddly. Would i be better of sticking with the brush for the really small parts and the airbrush for the larger parts? How small an area can an airbrush paint in one go?

Sorry for the dumb questions!

[Eric Mc]

Last question first - I would stick with brush paints for small components.

Tamiya paints are acrylics and can be thinned with water. Tamiya do have their own thinner but it can be hard to get hold of. I have used the Hannants Xtracrylic thinner with Tamiya paint and it has worked for me.

One of the down sides of airbrushing is the need to mask more. However, with practice, you can get away with masking just near to the area you are painting. You can always protect other parts of the model with post-it notes or even cling film.

[chrisga]

Thanks Eric. Is water ok to clean the airbrush out with, or do i need something special to do that properly so it doesnt get bunged up in the future?

[dr_gn]

chrisga said:

Ok dumb question approaching.....

First of all: your models are excellent. You've posted some on here before I believe?

Secondly: a good airbrush will improve your work, a bad one will possibly make it worse. For example, I can see on the Repsol bike that you have brush painited the metallic blue (I think I commented on this before). An airbrush will improve this a lot, assuming you have a bit of practice. It's very easy to blotch metallics with an airbrush though, so beware.

Assuming you have a half decent airbrush, IMHO a bit of practice is essential for airbrushing, and apart from that, correct paint consistency is a fundamental requirement. There are loads of websites with technique advice, but the best thing to do is practice/experiment on some old CD cases or whatever.

Tamiya X- and XF- paints are acrylic. You can get Tamiya thinners for these, but the cheapest thing to use is Isopropyl Alcohol (buy 500cc from the Chemist), diluted about 50% with water. Tamiya acrylics dry very quickly, especially the matt ones when sprayed, and are prone to drying before hitting the model. They also tend to encrust the airbrush nozzle, so frequent cleaning with an IPA soaked cotton bud is a good idea. I currently use the Vallejo Air range of acrylics, and find them very good.

I've built loads of Tamiya 1:20 F1 cars, and almost all were painted with airbrushed Humbrol Enamel. For gloss finishes, I'd probably go with that again. It seems to flow better onthe surface, maybe becasue it takes longer to dry:





Masking - definitely. On several occasions I've thought I could spray well enough to not need masking, then found overspray and had to start again. Tamiya tape is the best, cut with a scalpel to form a clean edge. You can use tissues to cover any large areas.

Small items? I find using acrylics difficult on these (maybe because I'm currently using fast drying matt colours a lot), but you clearly have no issue so that's fine. I find myself spraying even the smallest items these days, and brush painting only the smallest details, usually with enamels.

Just jump in and try it - you'll soon get the hang of it.

HTH!

[dr_gn]

chrisga said:

Thanks Eric. Is water ok to clean the airbrush out with, or do i need something special to do that properly so it doesnt get bunged up in the future?

50% v/v minimum Isopropyl Alcohol for Tamiya acrylics. I find water won't touch it when it's setting.

[Red Firecracker]

You can also use Halfords screen wash to thin Tamiya Acrylics, I believe. The specific thinner is now more widely available as well.

[dr_gn]

Red Firecracker said:

You can also use Halfords screen wash to thin Tamiya Acrylics, I believe. The specific thinner is now more widely available as well.

Someone told me that Pink screen wash works fine, but blue screen wash turns it to mush...or was it the other way around?

[Evangelion]

I've tried window cleaner spray for thinning Tamiya acrylics and it works well. Also Tamiya acrylic thinners works with Humbrol acrylic paint.

I've even experimented with cellulose thinners which seems to work with both acrylic and enamel paints, but have not yet plucked up the courage to use it on a model.

[dr_gn]

Evangelion said:

I've tried window cleaner spray for thinning Tamiya acrylics and it works well. Also Tamiya acrylic thinners works with Humbrol acrylic paint.

I've even experimented with cellulose thinners which seems to work with both acrylic and enamel paints, but have not yet plucked up the courage to use it on a model.

For acrylics, you won't go far wrong with diluted IPA. It's relatively expensive, but I'm not bothered since the time spent on getting a model to painting stage is far more valuable to me than the risk of ruining it.

You have to consider the effect of the thinners on plastic, or subsequent coats of enamel or Klear.

Edited by dr_gn on Tuesday 14th September 10:21

[Red Firecracker]

dr_gn said:

Red Firecracker said:

You can also use Halfords screen wash to thin Tamiya Acrylics, I believe. The specific thinner is now more widely available as well.

Someone told me that Pink screen wash works fine, but blue screen wash turns it to mush...or was it the other way around?

I think it's the neat, non-readymixed stuff that is the one to use.

Can't say for certain as I've never used it myself.