Frog (Rovex) Hawker Typhoon build [not GB]

[perdu]

Ah

rather like the way I use a thickish paint to smooth a surface

I must get some to try

cheers chaps

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

Ah

rather like the way I use a thickish paint to smooth a surface

I must get some to try

cheers chaps

Here you go:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/Surfacer.html

[perdu]

Ok not a lot to report

I've taken off the Hispano barrels and trial fitted (dont tell me they arent right yet, I know) my home made later sleeved versions, far more like those on most of my pictures

They WILL look fine once the fettling period is over, honest

It seems the people that make brass ones only make to suit 1/72scale Spittyfires, not quite the same

I have also toned down the silvery wheel wells with a mixture of Tamiya light blue and Humbrol acrylic silver, not yet right either but far more like the interior colour of the wheel well on the picture I have been referencing from, a light silvery mist should do that nicely



I have the old Humbrol Authentic Ocean Grey and Sea Grey Medium to paint the basic airframes this coming week, then a substitue Humbrol green because I don't think the Humbrol 30 dark green is anywhere near the real thingy. The lad in the shop reckons Humbrol 149 is nearest, I'll report back later.

I really should dash off an order for the Extracrylics that Eric advised me t'other week...

I really need to get some work in, I have a nice Matchbox Wessex to play with next (ebay sorted that one out) and the plan is still for the folded Walrus soon too

[perdu]

A little more progress

Yesterday I tried out the kit canopy and made the definite decision

It has to go, almost everything inside has vanished, so I will be "pull moulding" a new car door canopy with the extra rearview mirror bulge. I know I said I might so it's no biggie...

I will take a few pictures as I mould for the "archives" so anyone who hasn't done it can watch me screwitup first. (I usually mess at least one pull before I get workable acetate)

Here's how it won't look



And Taraaah

Today I was mostly learning how much I had forgotten about my Paasche airbrush and tyre pressure spraying

I needed an extra O ring behind the adapter to seal the pressure
for starters

Then I had fun keeping paint inside the small paint hopper/cup on the airbrush intead of all over the underwing surface

Then I had to get a paintable thinned mixture

And eventually after about three hours I had this

For some reason I couldn't get the flash right so here's the best of the rest



and the worst



Sea Grey Medium from Humbrol Authentics, this paint is over thirty years old in the tin. Simply opened and stirred, thinned with white spirits and away we go

Eventually I had a decent(ish) all over finish

I might look into a quiet compressor, another fridge compressor again maybe

So maybe more tomorrow, there's lots more to do

Cut ejector slots for the Hispanos underwing I suppose, surely didn't take the empties back after tickling trains did they?



And fill the minor imperfections around the wheel well cut outs

[dr_gn]

Looking good - only thing I'd add is that the radiator opening edge needs a bit of attention. I had fun and games smoothing the internal seam there too (in front of the ratiator matrix).

I tested some new airbrushes at the show on Sunday on the Little Cars stand. Easier to use than mine (smoother controls), but the quality of the finish wasn't any better, so I'll be sticking with my Super '63 for a while yet. I too could do with a new compressor. My garage one wakes the kids up whenever I use it in the evenings, but the one on the Little Cars stand was almost silent.

[Eric Mc]

Were they from the Harder and Steenbeck range?

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

Were they from the Harder and Steenbeck range?

Yes: Evolution series I think.

I couldn't tell how prone they were to clogging (my biggest airbrush problem at least with acrylics) becasue they were filled with what appeared to be a very thin ink.

It did show how much easier things can be with new equipment though, you don't have to compensate as much for the foibles of ancient technology.

[Eric Mc]

I was impressed with their display at the Fsarnborough Modelfest last year so I bought one. So far, I have been EXTREMELY impressed. The brush seems to work first time, every time - with no clogging whatsoever. As I have mentioned a few times, I primarilly use Xtracrylic and Tamiya acryllics. I've used Revell and Humbrol acrylics a couple of times and they seem to work fine too. I use Xtracrylic thinners on all the paints I use.
I clean the brush usuing Badger airbrush cleaner and water.

After all my trials and tribulations with lesser brushes over the years(and I include Badger and Aztek brushes in this) the H & S has been a complete revelation.

[perdu]

I DID say this wouldn't be finished when you guys finish the group build didn't I

I can't stop meddling with the details

Anyway I have started with the canopy mould making

The thick Frog moulding (I just couldn't use it!) has been milliputted onto an 8" long 3/8" dowel and after fully hardening (probably tomorrow afternoon) will be shaped to the actual dimensions I want



First make sure the dowel will fit snugly



And trap it inside the canopy




I have used some of the excess Milliput to fill inside the radiator intake hole, this should allow me to carve a decently shaped entrance

You can see the (probable) finished wheel well colour, I'm getting fed up with trying to get it quite like the colour on my photograph, this will have to do. Additional well wall details now added including the spar inspection panel (orangey transparent-ish plastic on the real thing) from brown waxed paper Swann-Morton blade wrapping sheet. The small equipment boxes are too prominent and will be getting a slim line look this evening



See what I mean about meddling with things

I have drilled out and squared off the cannon's shell ejector slots and the vents that are alongside them

The ejector slots stand proud of the wing and in real life have small fences around them, Frog moulded them as rectangular blocks on the undersurface of the wings, drilling the holes here helped me by not having to make the fences, simply leaving the edges of the blocks in place

I think three of the cannon barrels look OK and there is just the one to adjust (Starboard outer)

The radiator cowling was too close to the undercarriage bays from my photographs so I have pared away much of it to get a far more realistic shape and as I was working the area I have added a better cockpit warm air duct. Not perfect but better than the moulded little blob that was there this afternoon

And to finish today's little bit I added the cutouts for navigation lamps to the wing tips and will be adding the nav lights and landing lamps soon to their cut away sections



I was hoping to find a pair of Typhoon Bomb carriers in my spares box, but no go, so I will have to carve a couple from old Airfix bomb casings

I keep making more work all the time dont I?

Oh well more pictures soon of the moulding process if I can get the timer on the camera working properly...

[perdu]

This is the set up I used to "pull" the canopy from acetate sheet

( I used the box a twenty pack of small square Christmas Cards came in, very very much part of the throwaway society. I always save such sheets of free acetate.)

The dowel is sitting inside the centre tube of a 100 pack of recordable CDs, because I don't have an "upstairs" bench vice. Too damned cold in the garage, still winter downstairs dontcha know!



The first "pull" was a definite fail, I allowed the acetate to get too hot



This piece started to burn but it was far enough away from the planned area that I used it anyway



The burnt bit is offset and the main piece pulled down over the former. Keep the pull constant and pull it down and in so it keeps the shape at the bottom as well as across the top. The top bit is the easy part, keeping the shape lower is the key to a successful moulding.



The first one on the left shows its inherent "thinness", see the stretched hole caused by excess heating time. It isn't very easy to see in this picture but the one on the right is nigh on perfick!!!



I've trimmed both so you can see how it looks, see the healthy shaped piece on the right.



The basic trimmed canopy on the former and the cut off waste behind it



Et voila!

First sitting on the model, no extra trimming yet.

Can you tell how pleased I am with it?



Now I am glad I did put in some extra detailing



As this came out so well (first time in I cannot remember how long except the number thirty is in there) I am considering stopping here instead of adding the bulged upper canopy for the rear view mirror.

Must have a think

[dr_gn]

The canopy looks excellent - as good as the Resin Art one (take that as a complement!).

Is the mirror bulge a further step, or would you modify the 'plug'? If it's a mod to the plug, why not have a go anyway?

Cheers.

[perdu]

The bulge is to be added to the present mould so yes I might give it a go, nowt to lose now after all

I found that with "double bubble" moulding like this that you need to be very lucky to get a secondary bulge laid in so it has definition around itself, this is where a vaccuum really would help by squeezing the air from around the lower extremities

With the roof section of the Typhoon canopy I think there's enough time to help it with at judicious thumbnail tracing the extremity round and pushing the acetate into the corners. because it is a small addition to the mould

We will see, maybe tomorrow

I told you I'd scratchbuilt the Shorts C23A Sherpa, years ago, this is how I moulded the undercarriage sponsons, worked very nicely from moulds carved from fine grain pine.

I hope to find a rogue photo somewhere, I wish I'd hung on to it

Oooops

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

The bulge is to be added to the present mould so yes I might give it a go, nowt to lose now after all

I found that with "double bubble" moulding like this that you need to be very lucky to get a secondary bulge laid in so it has definition around itself, this is where a vaccuum really would help by squeezing the air from around the lower extremities

With the roof section of the Typhoon canopy I think there's enough time to help it with at judicious thumbnail tracing the extremity round and pushing the acetate into the corners. because it is a small addition to the mould

We will see, maybe tomorrow

I told you I'd scratchbuilt the Shorts C23A Sherpa, years ago, this is how I moulded the undercarriage sponsons, worked very nicely from moulds carved from fine grain pine.

I hope to find a rogue photo somewhere, I wish I'd hung on to it

Oooops

Could you put the new bulged plug under your actetate canopy, and shove the whole thing in the oven for 10 minutes?

[perdu]

Another good question

but

I have one that works for the basic Typhoon configuration.

I suppose I could "pull" another one, they are very easy to do, and oven that one

Does acetate shrink in the oven I wonder?


Tomorrow I plan to respray the underside then mask to cover the Ocean Grey upper surfaces

Soon be time to paint the stripes too, many of those in the actual wartime pictures look very "pukka", so proper straight lines are called for.

[perdu]

A few questions answered today

me: Mr Surfacer?
him: never heard of it squire
me: its a liquid filler you just paint on
him: I have another weird git who makes "statics" who comes in, I'll check it out and if it seems OK I'll get some in...

So

a roll of Tamiya masking tape and a Humbrol acrylics Sky (type S?)

And maybe a promise

Tonight the other questions answered were

Can you mould a double bubble into the Typhoon Canopy by adding a judicious amount of Milliput to the first strike mould and shaping carefully?

answer: yes



and
When you mould with this method do you need to accent the double bubble by thumbnailing the acetate around the "bump"?

answer: no, it filled in the extra space on its own

Seen added to the model over the masked off fuselage



and



I have begun making the Typhoon bomb carriers from left over Millput after making the bubble



Quite happy about this I usually make up far too much epoxy filler to use that on

[perdu]

A question requesting info AND opinions

This model I found on t'internet

basically the version I'm into



I find it hard to believe Cockpit Grey Green on upper surfaces exposed to view under the canopy, but can't find much definitive wartime info except



Which shows an apparent camouflage demarcation under the rear of the car door hood rear section and also has a different paint pattern on the outer framing, suggesting it has been swapped from another machine

I would love a concensus here, I'm just making the interior mirror at the mo' so it will be "paint the upper surface" time soon and I am planning to fit then spray with the hood in place

[dr_gn]

I guess if you make the assumption that the exterior camo was painted after the rear canopy was fitted, then it's likely the inside would remain in whatever colour it was before the canopy was fitted, like on the rear section of this Spitfire:



The Tempest is slightly different becasue the hood slides, and underneath it there is a recessed panel which is painted flat black:

[perdu]

I get you.

So if I assume the rear canopy section came off at some time it's feasible that the rear fuselage area section was painted in full camo at an MU somewhere.

I'd believe black more than Grey Green myself, it would be a pale "here I am" for any fighter opposition.

Suppose I'd better delve deeper

Cheers

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

I get you.

So if I assume the rear canopy section came off at some time it's feasible that the rear fuselage area section was painted in full camo at an MU somewhere.

I'd believe black more than Grey Green myself, it would be a pale "here I am" for any fighter opposition.

Suppose I'd better delve deeper

Cheers

I'd be tempted to either paint it flat black, fit the canopy, mask and paint the camo...and leave it at that. Or, paint it interior green, but weather it with a dark wash to within an inch of its life.

ETA: The person who built the model in your post obviously knew what he was doing, so it might be correct.

[perdu]

Yes it does look as if he knows a bit or two...

I think, as I have to build the seat back brace and other ironmongery I will do it the same manner. Cockpit grey/greenpaint? I think I have a couple to choose from to finish it all off with...

ta


edit 'cos it made no sense

as usual

Edited by perdu on Sunday 13th March 01:41