Best varnish to flatten glossy paint job

[perdu]

dr_gn said:

Evangelion said:

dr_gn said:

When you say "the full amount", what does that mean? 100% Flat Base?

Interesting point, as nowhere on the jar does it state how much to use! I was told one part to every four of paint for full matt but haven't been able to verify this. All I can say is experiment! I just keep adding a little at a time and testing it until it looks right.

So what happens if you spray neat flat base?

As a bloke with a full jar of X-21 Flat base, a new 250ml bottle of X-20A thinner and a brand new can of Humbrol aerosol (at last!), I am dying to hear this answer.
We are getting some good stuff out of this question

[Evangelion]

dr_gn said:

So what happens if you spray neat flat base?

It falls off as soon as it dries, as it's a powder. It's meant to be added to paint, nothing else.

Before it existed, we used to use talcum powder.

[dr_gn]

Evangelion said:

dr_gn said:

So what happens if you spray neat flat base?

It falls off as soon as it dries, as it's a powder. It's meant to be added to paint, nothing else.

Before it existed, we used to use talcum powder.

Presumably then, the more you add, the more chance of a semi-opaque coating being added to your base colour?

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

dr_gn said:

Evangelion said:

dr_gn said:

When you say "the full amount", what does that mean? 100% Flat Base?

Interesting point, as nowhere on the jar does it state how much to use! I was told one part to every four of paint for full matt but haven't been able to verify this. All I can say is experiment! I just keep adding a little at a time and testing it until it looks right.

So what happens if you spray neat flat base?

As a bloke with a full jar of X-21 Flat base, a new 250ml bottle of X-20A thinner and a brand new can of Humbrol aerosol (at last!), I am dying to hear this answer.
We are getting some good stuff out of this question

Just to confirm the spray can: it's number 49.

[Evangelion]

dr_gn said:

Presumably then, the more you add, the more chance of a semi-opaque coating being added to your base colour?

Precisely, add what you need and no more. Eventually it will become opaque and more importantly, brittle, causing it to crumble or flake off.

This Lancaster was done with it:



Coat of gloss clear before and after decalling, final coat of matt clear.

[dr_gn]

Evangelion said:

dr_gn said:

Presumably then, the more you add, the more chance of a semi-opaque coating being added to your base colour?

Precisely, add what you need and no more. Eventually it will become opaque and more importantly, brittle, causing it to crumble or flake off.

This Lancaster was done with it:



Coat of gloss clear before and after decalling, final coat of matt clear.

To my eyes that looks satin.

[perdu]

Looks satin to me too

My jar of Tamiya X-21 is full of a liquid flat base, so I think I will thin it as for spraying before I use it

I remember using talc many years ago to flatten colours but I never had much success

Anyway doc, I do have the right aerosol, flat49 and this is about to be used on the Typhoon

Should one weather first or after flatting?

A question of locking in the grime or adding it to the outer surface

So much to learn...

[Evangelion]

dr_gn said:

To my eyes that looks satin.

Yes I never make it absolutely flat matt.

Here's another that used it:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

So remember the procedure:

1 - add Flat Base to paint.
2 - try it to make sure it's right and adjust accordingly if neccessary.
3 - If spraying, thin the mixture to suit.

On the Swanny's Models wbsite I found this guide to flattening Future:

1 part flat base to 3 parts Future = very flat
1 part flat base to 10 parts Future = flat
1 part flat base to 15 parts Future = satin

Don't know if the same ratios would work for other types of clear gloss but it's a starting point.

ETA - one or two people are getting confused because Tamiya put exactly the same instructions on a jar of X-21 as on their other paints. But X-21 is NOT a PAINT! It is an ADDITIVE! You add it to gloss paint to make it matt.

I've just spent a few minutes trawling the net and have dioscovered that you add between 10% and 20% Flat Base to the paint depending on the degree of mattness (that word again) you need.

Edited by Evangelion on Saturday 2nd April 13:47

[NervySi]

I don't think anybody has mentioned Johnsons Klear floor polish yet. I generally use this (sprayed on) as a base for decals to avoid silvering when they are dry, but when used as a top coat it can give a dull satin or smooth satin finish (depending how you apply it). Just be careful - I did read recently they they have changed the formula and it is now very slightly brown tinted, so try some first!

The cab and chassis on this Kenworth were done with Klear, to give you an idea (sorry for the link, looks like I'm too new to post pics!.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/tinshark/S500...

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

Looks satin to me too

My jar of Tamiya X-21 is full of a liquid flat base, so I think I will thin it as for spraying before I use it

I remember using talc many years ago to flatten colours but I never had much success

Anyway doc, I do have the right aerosol, flat49 and this is about to be used on the Typhoon

Should one weather first or after flatting?

A question of locking in the grime or adding it to the outer surface

So much to learn...

The very last thing I do on a model is varnishing. Make sure you shake that can for at least 5 minutes, and do a test piece first, it comes out fairly thick so you need to keep the can moving and just mist it on in 2 coats. Stick it in some hot water firat as well - it'll help maintain pressure. Good Luck1 This is the bit where it could all go horribly wrong so don't rush it, and...remember to mask all transparancies!

[dr_gn]

Evangelion said:

dr_gn said:

To my eyes that looks satin.

Yes I never make it absolutely flat matt.

Here's another that used it:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

So remember the procedure:

1 - add Flat Base to paint.
2 - try it to make sure it's right and adjust accordingly if neccessary.
3 - If spraying, thin the mixture to suit.

On the Swanny's Models wbsite I found this guide to flattening Future:

1 part flat base to 3 parts Future = very flat
1 part flat base to 10 parts Future = flat
1 part flat base to 15 parts Future = satin

Don't know if the same ratios would work for other types of clear gloss but it's a starting point.

ETA - one or two people are getting confused because Tamiya put exactly the same instructions on a jar of X-21 as on their other paints. But X-21 is NOT a PAINT! It is an ADDITIVE! You add it to gloss paint to make it matt.

I've just spent a few minutes trawling the net and have dioscovered that you add between 10% and 20% Flat Base to the paint depending on the degree of mattness (that word again) you need.

Edited by Evangelion on Saturday 2nd April 13:47

Seems to be a load of extra hassle for no apparent benefit? Why not just use Matt varnish, or Satin varnish?

[Evangelion]

dr_gn said:

Seems to be a load of extra hassle for no apparent benefit? Why not just use Matt varnish, or Satin varnish?

For me it's because Tamiya only do a clear gloss! Also because the finish can be infinitely varied between hard gloss and flat matt depending on how much you add.

(Humbrol do a matt and satin clear, Nos. 49 and 135 respectively, but of course these are enamel.

Johnson's Klear really needs its own thread, I've just started one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[dr_gn]

Evangelion said:

dr_gn said:

Seems to be a load of extra hassle for no apparent benefit? Why not just use Matt varnish, or Satin varnish?

For me it's because Tamiya only do a clear gloss! Also because the finish can be infinitely varied between hard gloss and flat matt depending on how much you add.

(Humbrol do a matt and satin clear, Nos. 49 and 135 respectively, but of course these are enamel.

Johnson's Klear really needs its own thread, I've just started one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

You can put enamel over acrylic - I do all the time on models. The best one so far for me is Humbrol Matt spray can #49.

[perdu]

So we have (so far, any idea how long this should go for before we sticky it into the Wiki?)

Humbrol Matt Aerosol spray in warm-ish atmospheres
Xtracrylic Matt Varnish, care with thinning
Tamiya Gloss but buggered about with by adding flatting agent

We also have Tamiya X-21 added to Johnson's Klear to flatten this too

And Future being the US trade name for a similar product

I can see that adding X-21 to your favourite "perfect colour" will matt it rather than trying to remix the colour in matt colours, some of which end up with different hues to the similar colours in gloss (been there, tee shirt in the wash)

Do you lose colour strength when matting down?