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cheddar
1,977 posts
43 months
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Luke. said: How about a JCW Mini? Very, erm, grunty. +1 Go karty, accurate, demand concentration, strong seat of pants feel, properly quick too.....
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Red 4
1,369 posts
56 months
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Andy20vt said: Thing is the more you drive it then the better the car gets. There's a whole depth to the way it handles that takes you a while to figure out. Similarly you need to learn how to work the engine and where the power is to get it properly moving. Loving it more now with each and every drive. The more you get to know the car then the better it gets.
Maybe that's why you don't see many 197's or 200's around. A test drive really won't do the car justice or show you how to get the best out of the car. It's a car that takes a little bit of time to adjust to before you actually figure out how unbelievably good it really is. I agree with this I bought a full fat RS200 with cup chassis because I was looking for an "old school" feel Most of the modern "hot hatches" just feel big and lardy. I've owned a Focus ST (great car but more of a tourer IMO and daft MPG) and an FN2 Civic Type R (not a good car IMO; suspension is stupidly hard with no compliance, visibility is poor, etc. and it just feels big) The Clio is great fun. Very capable car and ticks all my (current) boxes. I can't find fault with the steering. It's very direct and provides good feedback. Handling is superb. As has been said though you need to get used to the car.
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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Well I test drove one today. Full fat with cup chassis. First impressions were good, I like the interior. Doesn't feel cheap like Clios of old and the seats were lovely (not Recaros, though) gear box was a pleasure and the steering was spot on. I was a bit under whelmed performance wise but I think I just need to get used to it. It wasn't slow, just used to a bit more effortless go. - me tapping the brakes while approaching corner on a twisty NSL road*
Salesman: No need to brake, just throw it in. - me reluctantly complying and being amazed by the relentless grip*
Overall I really like it. I didn't leave a deposit there and then but I said I'd get back to him. My insurance is cheaper and it will leave with a full service. Few things. Will they hold their value fairly well? I don't do more than 10k a year. This particularly one is a 60 plate, £11,650, 11k miles, Auto AC + Cup suspension + cruise + keyless etc. They wouldn't shift on price. Is it a fairly good price?
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Andy20vt
91 posts
55 months
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Jimmy No Hands said: Will they hold their value fairly well? I don't do more than 10k a year. This particularly one is a 60 plate, £11,650, 11k miles, Auto AC + Cup suspension + cruise + keyless etc. They wouldn't shift on price. Is it a fairly good price? Well at £11,650 this car seems to have done a good chunk of it's depreciating already. Just look in the classifieds though at some older models (e.g. the 197) to see how much they sell for when a few years older. I'd say that was a reasonable price, but it might be worth hanging on to get one with the Recaro's. That's what a lot of buyers will look for when you come to sell it on in a few years. That said, the standard seats are still fantastic things. I predict that the 197/200 will be the last of the old school, normally aspirated 'big engine in a small car' type of hot hatch. Due to emissions and the cost of fuel, small capacity and turbocharging will be the future. Whether that's a good thing only time will tell.
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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True, to say they were what, 16k new? Hmmm, it is the ideal spec (apart from it isn't Alien Green!) but I am still not sure. I could wait a while longer and get a Polo GTI like I originally fancied.
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Red 4
1,369 posts
56 months
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Jimmy No Hands said: Few things. Will they hold their value fairly well? I don't do more than 10k a year. This particularly one is a 60 plate, £11,650, 11k miles, Auto AC + Cup suspension + cruise + keyless etc. They wouldn't shift on price. Is it a fairly good price? It depends what you mean by fairly well. Depreciation will slow as the car ages but I'd expect you to lose £1.5k - £2k over the next year. £11,650 sounds like a reasonable price from a main dealer but no 2 used cars are ever the same. It really depends on the condition of the car. A Recaro'd car will be easier to sell on. I'd use that as a bargaining tool. You definately did the right thing by walking. I'll bet the salesman is on the phone to you in the next day or so.
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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The car was mint. No marks or scuffs or anything, could've been brand new. I'm very tempted. Its just my inability to keep a car for more than a year, hopefully I won't get bored! Definitely going to be cheeky and ask for a years tax. 
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Swervin_Mervin
645 posts
107 months
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The 197s held their value reasonably well for a while, but have started dropping more recently. Not sure if that's the 200 effect.
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cheddar
1,977 posts
43 months
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Jimmy No Hands said: The car was mint. No marks or scuffs or anything, could've been brand new. I'm very tempted. Its just my inability to keep a car for more than a year, hopefully I won't get bored! Definitely going to be cheeky and ask for a years tax. The salesman is an expert, it's his job to sell at the highest possible price. He does it all day everyday and will've profiled you in short order, and, possibly have you down as, well, a little shy. I have never purchased without a reasonably substantial discount, even when I've been clearly stated that there's definitely no movement on price. I would politely but clearly offer a same day $11k, use Recaro's as a reason, he will hope to end up at 11,500 (and state that it's his final offer) you say Recaro's are important but you'll reluctantly go to 11,250 absolute max. He'll decline then call you the next day and accept. That Polo GTI you mentioned? A little ordinary in comparison. Unlike the brilliant Clio, the motoring press don't really proclaim anything special about them let alone "The 911 GT3 of Hot Hatches". Good luck Jimmy........
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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Thanks! And you are quite right. I wont lie I am terrible when it comes to negotiations with dealers. I know what I want to pay so I'm going to get back to him tomorrow. Don't mind walking away and waiting, which is advantageous. I'll report back.
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roystinho
884 posts
44 months
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I imagine there'll be a bit of a glut on the market soon as quite a few 2yr PCPs will be ending around now. If this one goes there'll be plenty to choose from.
I'd definitely get Recaros, but not for resale, but because they're so god damn good.
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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There are a fair few 10/60 plates sat on 8-12k miles floating around so I imagine you're right. Dealers getting back to me today. Although the car doesn't have recaros, but otherwise everything else.
Edit: going back for a lengthy test drive tomorrow. They wouldn't lend me it for 24 hours even if I put a deposit down.
They've dropped price to 11,400 and I'm going to ask them for six months ticket and the transfer fee for my plate. Don't ask don't get right?
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daveknott5
597 posts
88 months
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Any update? Did the lengthy test drive change your mind? I also had a short, disappointing test drive in a 200 Cup - in the worst environment possible, West London. No twisties, just pot holes and speed ramps to negotiate!
I think if I spent enough time in one, on a decent road, my mind might be changed....interested to know if you've seen the much lauded "Renaultsport light"! or if you're still left disappointed.......?
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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Yep! I pick it up either the end of this week or the next. I went out for well over an hour and got to take the car around some nice backroads. Really sold it for me and I think I understand what the car is truly about now. The handling is epic, was trying to induce some understeer but it just wasn't giving in, epic grip. Really put a smile on my face and I actually had fun for a change, and it wasn't while doing mach 3 either. I've been wanting a "fun" car for a while and with the MOT looming on the Z4 and a few bits and bats needing doing I thought now was the best time. It's just having the plate transferred as well as it's first service and valet.  It's missing Recaro's which I can honestly live with, the standard seats are very comfortable and hold you well. It has auto AC/lights/wipers and cruise, keyless entry & cup chassis. I would've preferred projectors but I can always pick up a second hand pair if I feel the need. It has the anthracite pack, and I actually prefer those wheels to the others I have seen. The 4 pot Brembos up front are huge! It's in immaculate condition and still has the manufacturer warranty for another 15 months. Will report back when I pick it up, I fear the next five days might drag a bit.
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Red 4
1,369 posts
56 months
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Welcome to the world of RS Clio ownership To be honest you can live without the Recaros. The standard seats are very good. I've got Recaros in my FF 200 and they are showing slight signs of wear on the bolsters after just 4k miles. All the Recaro'd Clio's suffer from it. Standard seats wear much better. Cup chassis is a must though. Enjoy the car. Did you manage to get a better deal in the end ?
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Swervin_Mervin
645 posts
107 months
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Red 4 said: Welcome to the world of RS Clio ownership To be honest you can live without the Recaros. The standard seats are very good. I've got Recaros in my FF 200 and they are showing slight signs of wear on the bolsters after just 4k miles. All the Recaro'd Clio's suffer from it. Standard seats wear much better. Cup chassis is a must though. Enjoy the car. Did you manage to get a better deal in the end ? No they don't 
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aspen
1,291 posts
132 months
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Looks really good. Don't think it has the anthractie pack though, I thought that meant the front black section of the bumper, blade and the rear diffuser were anthracite? The wheels are the standard cup wheels and I agree, they are more interesting to my eye than black speedlines!
Just to stand up for the Recaros, mine are 19,000 miles in and good as new. Looking at the forums, I do seem to be lucky though. Many others have wear issues.
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Jimmy No Hands
1,802 posts
25 months
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aspen said: Looks really good. Don't think it has the anthractie pack though, I thought that meant the front black section of the bumper, blade and the rear diffuser were anthracite? The wheels are the standard cup wheels and I agree, they are more interesting to my eye than black speedlines!
Just to stand up for the Recaros, mine are 19,000 miles in and good as new. Looking at the forums, I do seem to be lucky though. Many others have wear issues. You are correct, I thought the anthracite wheels were an option, oops! Much prefer them over the speedlines like you say though. I've already started browsing for upgrades.. God help me.
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aspen
1,291 posts
132 months
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You are precarilously close to the top of a big slippery slope there!
Fortunately managed to avoid any temptation to upgrade anything on mine. Only non standard item is my phone holder.
If you haven't already done so, you should sign up on clio197.net. Lots of useful information there and threads detailing some extensive modifying.
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roystinho
884 posts
44 months
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Great choice. clio197.net is a good place for info. Standard says are fine, I had them. Recaros are good, but need to be leather to withstand the wear. You'll love it, I'd get the wheels painted black to match in though
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