Clio 172 Aux belt slipping

Clio 172 Aux belt slipping

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StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Post copied from Cliosport but I need all the help I can get with this frown

Hi Car is a 172 mk2 with AC. Stock belt setup.

So... My aux belt started squeaking and making a horrific noise on full lock. Ah well, was overdue anyway. Transpired the pump was actually stopping when loading the steering up, hence the noise. I changed the tensioner and the belt first following advice on here which was a fun job and it made no real difference. Annoying but the PAS pump has been whining for a while so I set out to start again and change that. The fact the fluid went black within a week of changing the belt reinforced my dead pump theory, or so I thought.

Stripped the car again a week after repair 1 and replaced the PAS pump. Put it all back together, filled with the right fluid and after a week the problem is back with a vengeance and getting worse.

To summarise, replaced the aux belt, idler pulley, tensioner, PAS fluid and PAS pump and the belt still squeaks on start up and on full lock and dry steering. Crank pulley "seems" fine to me with no play and doesn't look obviously f**ked, old pump definitely shagged when compared to it's replacement, genuine Renault parts used. Car starts fine so I'm assuming battery/alt fine and there are no water leaks from anywhere so I've ruled out the water pump? and it's not and never did leak PAS fluid. It has stayed red though which is nice. I have used the same belt for repair 1 and repair 2. If this is my issue I will change it again I'm just sick of ripping it apart and the thing still pissing me about.

I am fairly confident with cars/tools and have done many repairs on old sheds over the years but this car and it's ridiculous design is close to beating me.

I have since changed the belt again with a brand new one to no avail. I am now at the point where I am doubting myself and my abilities to fix this car and am considering paying somebody to look at it/fix it if there's anyone local to Maidstone that knows what they're doing?

Edited by StoatInACoat on Monday 22 September 10:56

DaveL485

2,758 posts

196 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2014
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Is it only on one side? Might be over extending the rack.

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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Oh no, now I`m getting nervous, my 182 started squeaking on full lock, then developed into lumpy power steering when cold moving out of parking spaces (after a matter of seconds it would return to normal)

Changed the steering pump and it was fine, oddly during the warm weather, now it`s colder again in the mornings it has started with the lumpy steering when first started!

The plan was to change the tensioner next week, now I`m worried!

DaveL485

2,758 posts

196 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
That could just be a slipping belt.

Also, you're suppose to change the tensioner when you change the belt.

MiseryStreak

2,929 posts

206 months

Friday 26th September 2014
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I can see why you posted on here, getting an answer out of CS can be like getting blood out of a stone sometimes. Unless you're posting about a woman with three tits of course.

I can't help you diagnose the problem but all I'll say is I just got a full belt replacement including the dephaser pulley, 36,000 mile service including spark plugs and gearbox oil and full mechanical checkover (which found a misfire and so replaced an injector too) on my 172 Cup for £695 from RenTech in Portsmouth. 02392 665848.

The Cups are cheaper as they don't have AC belt but I think they charge £450 for all belts inc. Aux and dephaser.

Renault charge £800 just for the cambelt (not inc. aux belt!), an extra £250 for the dephaser pulley, I got a quote just for a laugh.

If you don't have the proper Renault timing tools then you will fk the timing up, as many F4R Clio owners have found, trying the job themselves or going to a non specialist indie garage.

I think there is a highly regarded RS Clio specialist closer to you in Kent though, he'll be mentioned on CS.

StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
DaveL485 said:
That could just be a slipping belt.

Also, you're suppose to change the tensioner when you change the belt.
I did. First repair was a new tensioner/belt, Second repair was a new power steering pump and fluid and third repair was a replacement belt and bottom roller wheel thing in case I'd managed to fk the belt up or get something on it between repair one and three somehow.

I am disinclined to get the cambelt changed at the moment. Mainly because it has another twelve months on it but also because this issue is definitely aux belt/ancillary related. I have been told by Ren7oaks that it is unlikely to be the crank pulley and he thinks it's another dead pump. Not sure what to do now, really don't want to rip it all apart again, borrow a car, send pump off for replacement, stick it back in and have the problem AGAIN.

Thank you for the contact in Portsmouth. If I ever get this fixed and decide to keep the car I would be happy to travel to get a cambelt done at a decent price rather than getting ripped off for it locally.

There are a lot of threads about this issue on Cliosport but very few solutions. I have read somewhere that the belt should be "Bowstring tight" and mine doesn't seem to be. I'm tempted to buy another kit, fit it and return the other one if it works. Oh to have unlimited time, daylight and motivation.

Edited by StoatInACoat on Wednesday 1st October 10:30


Edited by StoatInACoat on Wednesday 1st October 13:54

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
StoatInACoat said:
DaveL485 said:
That could just be a slipping belt.

Also, you're suppose to change the tensioner when you change the belt.
I did. First repair was a new tensioner/belt, Second repair was a new power steering pump and fluid and third repair was a replacement belt and bottom roller wheel thing in case I'd managed to fk the belt up or get something on it between repair one and three somehow.

I am disinclined to get the cambelt changed at the moment. Mainly because it has another twelve months on it but also because this issue is definitely aux belt/ancillary related. I have been told by Ren7oaks that it is unlikely to be the crank pulley and he thinks it's another dead pump. Not sure what to do now, really don't want to rip it all apart again, borrow a car, send pump off for replacement, stick it back in and have the problem AGAIN.

Thank you for the contact in Portsmouth. If I ever get this fixed and decide to keep the car I would be happy to travel to get a cambelt done at a decent price rather than getting ripped off for it locally.

There are a lot of threads about this issue on Cliosport but very few solutions. I have read somewhere that the belt should be "Bowstring tight" and mine doesn't seem to be. I'm tempted to buy another kit, fit it and return the other one if it works. Oh to have unlimited time, daylight and motivation.

Edited by StoatInACoat on Wednesday 1st October 10:30


Edited by StoatInACoat on Wednesday 1st October 13:54
Someone has mentioned to me that the crank pulley is 2 piece and that it may be splitting apart and causing extra slack / slipping!

StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
I heard the same thing but after panicking a bit about changing it (requires locking the crank etc) it appears not to be the problem in my case. It's not falling apart when checked with the belt off and apparently the belt is likely to run out of true if it's dying.

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
StoatInACoat said:
I heard the same thing but after panicking a bit about changing it (requires locking the crank etc) it appears not to be the problem in my case. It's not falling apart when checked with the belt off and apparently the belt is likely to run out of true if it's dying.
Well mine is being collected today, he`s changing all the pulleys including the crankshaft, I`ll keep you posted!

After a new power steering pump it started behaving again, this coincided with the hotter weather this year, as soon as the weather started cooling down (over night especially) it has come back with the squeak and lumpy steering for the first minute after starting, if I get into it now it will probably be fine, tmrw morning it will misbehave again)

StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Thursday 2nd October 2014
quotequote all
Cool. Be interested to hear how you get on especially if they find the faulty bit! Mine worked normally today, seems better when it's cold!

Maybe it just needs more garlic.

AlexIT

1,483 posts

137 months

Thursday 2nd October 2014
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Very interesting topic!
I have exactly the same problem on my 172, but couldn't find a solution either.

From the various tests I have done, the only thing which seemed to solve the problem for a short period of time (let's say a couple of weeks) has been the following:

- with warm engine, open the Steering fluid reservoir
- slowly steer until it starts to squeak
- after some tries you will notice that you can go further with the steering before it squeaks
- repeat both left and right until you can reach full lock without noise.

My feeling is that somehow there is an air bubble which builds up in the circuit, but I haven't found any leak in the system, so I'm still left with some doubts.


StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Thursday 2nd October 2014
quotequote all
High pressure return issue of some sort? There must be a pressure release valve or something somewhere. If it goes away when bled.

Hmmmm. stty thing. Right back to squeaking when fired and parking in the garage this evening. Not embarrassing at all.

Just found this:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?6638...

So the cap is a pressure release valve. This makes sense. Mine blows fluid everywhere if the lid is off and the tank filled right up to the top - as in overfilled when I start the car. Also have had the fluid everywhere/boiling issue on track before. This would suggest pressure in the system when you start the car, nowhere for it to go = pump stalls, belt slips, squeak.

Obviously when you steer it will pressure it up too = pump stall, belt slip.

Going to drill a hole in the and see if it works. To be honest I have no idea what I'm doing now and I'm making it up as I go along but attacking the car with power tools sounds therapeutic to me. There's every chance I'll just cover the battery and bonnet with PAS fluid but at least it might catch fire and then I wont have to fix it.

Edited by StoatInACoat on Thursday 2nd October 20:07


Edited by StoatInACoat on Thursday 2nd October 20:20

AlexIT

1,483 posts

137 months

Friday 3rd October 2014
quotequote all
Interesting info that the cap acts as overpressure valve, I thought it was located somewhere else along the circuit.
I will take it off during the weekend to see if there is any visible damage or issue.

Good catch!

StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Sunday 5th October 2014
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Took cap off and took it to bits. It's definitely a valve and has holes in it which are presumably supposed to release built up air pressure and cause a nice overflow problem when the fluid boils on track. See brilliant picture below:



Cap is made up of four parts with the foam thing between the red thing and the black bit. Black bit has a rubber gasket on it as well which fell off after I took this other excellent picture.



I enlarged all the holes which were all gunged up with ste using a screw and lobbed the filthy foam thing in the bin. Put the gasket back on, put it all back together and suck it on the car. No idea if it'll work long term but at least any air now has somewhere to go as it was so cacky that I don't think it would have been able to pass as it was. With your problem above the issue goes away for a bit when you bleed it so I'm hoping that now it is "self bleeding" mine will be the same. Here's hoping!

AlexIT

1,483 posts

137 months

Sunday 5th October 2014
quotequote all
Let me know if it works.
I'm going to give it a try as well.

Cheers

StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Monday 6th October 2014
quotequote all
I will report back properly at the end of this week but so far so good. Belt is a bit chirpy from start when steering but isn't, so far making a squeak and is behaving normally when pottering about at low speeds and parking. This is definitely an improvement!

However, it has been much colder last couple of days and when the engine is properly cold it makes no belt noise at all. Idle higher? Fluid more viscous? Something contracting slightly? Who knows. Going to see how it goes then change the sensor thing on the high pressure return pipe as they seem to be about £30 on ebay so I might as well carry on changing pointless crap and spending money until hopefully all squeaking is eliminated. Will give the battery a juice up as well as it's a free thing to try.

Trying to avoid changing the belt/pump again basically rolleyes

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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Not sure how you're getting on but my Clio came back today squeak free and without lumpy steering!

New tensioner and new crank pulley!

StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
I have just had a call from Ren7oaks where I left the heap o' ste in despair last week. It's fixed and it works properly but unfortunately had a new pump (again!) and a new crank pulley. On top of my new belt and tensioner and multiple pumps etc etc.... He thought it was the pump again so replaced it but then compared the car with another 172 and discovered a mangled crank pulley on mine so only charged me parts + fitting of the pump. Still £500 altogether though frown

Anyone wanna buy a second hand pump?

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
StoatInACoat said:
I have just had a call from Ren7oaks where I left the heap o' ste in despair last week. It's fixed and it works properly but unfortunately had a new pump (again!) and a new crank pulley. On top of my new belt and tensioner and multiple pumps etc etc.... He thought it was the pump again so replaced it but then compared the car with another 172 and discovered a mangled crank pulley on mine so only charged me parts + fitting of the pump. Still £500 altogether though frown

Anyone wanna buy a second hand pump?
I was wondering how you were getting on, I think the crank pulley is the common denominator here because mine had a pump and still had lumpy steering, yours had a tensioner and had lumpy steering, mine`s had both now and it`s fixed and yours has had a crank pulley too!


StoatInACoat

Original Poster:

1,352 posts

184 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
don logan said:
I was wondering how you were getting on, I think the crank pulley is the common denominator here because mine had a pump and still had lumpy steering, yours had a tensioner and had lumpy steering, mine`s had both now and it`s fixed and yours has had a crank pulley too!
Definitely. Mine in chronological order:

Aux belt kit - No change
Pump - No change
Aux tensioner + new belt - No change
Brand new pump - No change
Rage + shouting + attacking the cap - No change
New crank pulley - Success!

An expensive fact finding mission. If you're having the same problem I'd recommend just changing the bloody crank pulley wobble