Which hot hatch?
Discussion
g7jhp said:
A 205 GTI 1.9 is likely to feel slow and very tinny after a Mk5 Golf GTI.
I'd look at a Clio 172/182.
Tinny; maybe. Slow? Absolutely not. In all fairness, they're not actually that slow (~7sec to 60) even by modern standards. But the fact that they essentially feel like a coke-can with windows and 130bhp means the one thing they do like no modern car is really feel fast.I'd look at a Clio 172/182.
LookAtMyCat said:
Tinny; maybe. Slow? Absolutely not. In all fairness, they're not actually that slow (~7sec to 60) even by modern standards. But the fact that they essentially feel like a coke-can with windows and 130bhp means the one thing they do like no modern car is really feel fast.
Guess it depends on what you're used to driving. Edited by g7jhp on Friday 15th July 16:12
LookAtMyCat said:
Tinny; maybe. Slow? Absolutely not. In all fairness, they're not actually that slow (~7sec to 60) even by modern standards. But the fact that they essentially feel like a coke-can with windows and 130bhp means the one thing they do like no modern car is really feel fast.
Also the 0-60 time is closer 8 than 7 for the 1.9. Evo has it at 7.9 others at 7.8.I loved both mine, especially the 1.6 GTI but when I got the 1.9 there was certainly a rose tint to it!
Still stunning little cars and I'd buy another in a flash at the right price.
Not sure how cemented your budget is, I recently picked up a 57 plate Peugeot 207 gti for £2650. The handling isnt quiet up there with the Clio 197 of a similar age but the engine is miles better with the same 1.6T lump out the mini cooper S. However they can be had for far cheaper than the minis and renaults of similar age.
The handling IS good as far as they come but the steering is a bit numb when compared to the clio (or atleast the 182 ive driven), also it feels like you sit reeally far back in the chassis which personally I like.
The handling IS good as far as they come but the steering is a bit numb when compared to the clio (or atleast the 182 ive driven), also it feels like you sit reeally far back in the chassis which personally I like.
Drove a lot of French hot hatch.
My favorite is the Citroën AX Sport, with the 2 carburettors. It's not very fast, but very fun.
http://www.autotitre.com/fiche-technique/Citro%C3%...
Also drove a Peugeot 208 GTI, fast, but boring and a lot of troubles with it. A bill of more than €4000 at the Peugeot dealer, and the car only gets 42 000 kilometers on it (26 000 miles).
The THP engine is not know for his reliability.
A friend of mine had a 207 féline (THP 150), the distribution chain broke before 60 000 miles.
And another had a DS3 THP 156, there was a lot of problems with the injectors. Because they're quite rare in France (about 90% are diesels), the dealers don't know how to repare it, so the problems are'nt really solved and they need a service every 10 000 kms to run.
My favorite is the Citroën AX Sport, with the 2 carburettors. It's not very fast, but very fun.
http://www.autotitre.com/fiche-technique/Citro%C3%...
Also drove a Peugeot 208 GTI, fast, but boring and a lot of troubles with it. A bill of more than €4000 at the Peugeot dealer, and the car only gets 42 000 kilometers on it (26 000 miles).
The THP engine is not know for his reliability.
A friend of mine had a 207 féline (THP 150), the distribution chain broke before 60 000 miles.
And another had a DS3 THP 156, there was a lot of problems with the injectors. Because they're quite rare in France (about 90% are diesels), the dealers don't know how to repare it, so the problems are'nt really solved and they need a service every 10 000 kms to run.
Edited by FlatTwin on Thursday 11th August 23:51
I've got a Clio 182 as daily and a 205 GTI as a weekend toy, but it used to be my daily. (also used to have a 306!)
The 182 is great proper fun thing, I've has mine for 3 years and it's also been pretty reliable. Like others have said though watch for the belts it's very expensive to sort those, so if you do go for one either haggle hard on one that's not been done or get one that has been. Cam, aux, dephaser and waterpump + a service cost me about £750 recently by an RS specialist. Not much else to look out for on them really, but there are a lot of dogs around. I think in a couple of years their values will stabilize for good ones, Trophy models are already going up/holding firm.
205 GTI values are going nuts at the moment, it's not in the same league of sharpness/speed as the 182. You just point the 182 where you want to go down a B-road where as you sort of wrestle the 205 if you push it, it's just a great fun thing to chuck about. They used to be all pretty rust proof but now most of them the rear of the sills have started to go so watch for that.
I used to have a 306, great chassis (although it was just a 1.8 XS) I was going to progress into a GTI6 but I test drove a few and they just never felt *that* fast, seemed pretty thirsty for performance on offer and the rumored fragility of the engine put me off, maybe great for a toy now but not a daily (which was what I needed) as with the Clio I think in a few years a good Rallye/GTI6 will be worth strong money.
The 182 is great proper fun thing, I've has mine for 3 years and it's also been pretty reliable. Like others have said though watch for the belts it's very expensive to sort those, so if you do go for one either haggle hard on one that's not been done or get one that has been. Cam, aux, dephaser and waterpump + a service cost me about £750 recently by an RS specialist. Not much else to look out for on them really, but there are a lot of dogs around. I think in a couple of years their values will stabilize for good ones, Trophy models are already going up/holding firm.
205 GTI values are going nuts at the moment, it's not in the same league of sharpness/speed as the 182. You just point the 182 where you want to go down a B-road where as you sort of wrestle the 205 if you push it, it's just a great fun thing to chuck about. They used to be all pretty rust proof but now most of them the rear of the sills have started to go so watch for that.
I used to have a 306, great chassis (although it was just a 1.8 XS) I was going to progress into a GTI6 but I test drove a few and they just never felt *that* fast, seemed pretty thirsty for performance on offer and the rumored fragility of the engine put me off, maybe great for a toy now but not a daily (which was what I needed) as with the Clio I think in a few years a good Rallye/GTI6 will be worth strong money.
Edited by Lookingat on Friday 26th August 14:13
Furyblade_Lee said:
If you don't want to venture on a racetrack and just want a mad little fun road car then you won't go far wrong with a S1/S2 Rallye 106. I'd advice get a standard one and keep it exactly that, and it will be a great investment.
If you want to go on track also then certainly a 172, 182, 306 Gti-6 or Rallye would be better as they have enough power to keep up with others.
A standard 106 S1 Rallye is great on a track. Would much rather drive one of those on track over a standard 182 or 306If you want to go on track also then certainly a 172, 182, 306 Gti-6 or Rallye would be better as they have enough power to keep up with others.
thiscocks said:
Boring_Chris said:
If you go for a 106 be prepared for every mechanic you encounter to twist and moan about having to work on them!
Seriously, I've had mind 4 years and, whilst it's great fun, nobody is ever happy to see it!
What's so bad about working on a 106?Seriously, I've had mind 4 years and, whilst it's great fun, nobody is ever happy to see it!
I know the tracking is supposed to be a pain to do properly. The raptor alloys don't go on any old balancing machine. I've had mechanics and welders tell me to scrap mine because "it's old" and "not worth investing in" (that one really made me angry - had to bite my tongue there).
I think a lot of regular garages just see it as an old s
t box. Boring_Chris said:
thiscocks said:
Boring_Chris said:
If you go for a 106 be prepared for every mechanic you encounter to twist and moan about having to work on them!
Seriously, I've had mind 4 years and, whilst it's great fun, nobody is ever happy to see it!
What's so bad about working on a 106?Seriously, I've had mind 4 years and, whilst it's great fun, nobody is ever happy to see it!
I know the tracking is supposed to be a pain to do properly. The raptor alloys don't go on any old balancing machine. I've had mechanics and welders tell me to scrap mine because "it's old" and "not worth investing in" (that one really made me angry - had to bite my tongue there).
I think a lot of regular garages just see it as an old s
t box. 
Just need the right tool for the tracking, not a problem for any decent tyre place. My local garage much prefers working on my old golf and AX than new 'take me to a dealer' stuff. Well that's what he said anyway!thiscocks said:
Boring_Chris said:
thiscocks said:
Boring_Chris said:
If you go for a 106 be prepared for every mechanic you encounter to twist and moan about having to work on them!
Seriously, I've had mind 4 years and, whilst it's great fun, nobody is ever happy to see it!
What's so bad about working on a 106?Seriously, I've had mind 4 years and, whilst it's great fun, nobody is ever happy to see it!
I know the tracking is supposed to be a pain to do properly. The raptor alloys don't go on any old balancing machine. I've had mechanics and welders tell me to scrap mine because "it's old" and "not worth investing in" (that one really made me angry - had to bite my tongue there).
I think a lot of regular garages just see it as an old s
t box. Just need the right tool for the tracking, not a problem for any decent tyre place. My local garage much prefers working on my old golf and AX than new 'take me to a dealer' stuff. Well that's what he said anyway!PTF said:
Only 600 GTI6s left on the road now. We're losing about a dozen every few months.
A lot got wiped out by the scrappage scheme, so many 90's cars vanished because of it, the 306 as a model got decimated. There's an interesting excel file with them all here - There's some clangers including a muppet that scrapped a Clio Williams! https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Edited by Lookingat on Wednesday 31st August 10:32
^ Christ. Some sad reading there.
When I was in Portugal the other month I couldn't believe how much old french stuff I saw driving around compared to the uk! Loads of nice condition bog standard 205s, Ax, Renault 19s ect... Yes their climate is kinder on them but cant help thinking how the mentality of most people in this country contributes to it too.
When I was in Portugal the other month I couldn't believe how much old french stuff I saw driving around compared to the uk! Loads of nice condition bog standard 205s, Ax, Renault 19s ect... Yes their climate is kinder on them but cant help thinking how the mentality of most people in this country contributes to it too.
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