Which do you think was / is the best french fry? (Hot hatch)
Discussion
Which is / was the best French hot hatch there has been, and why?
Although I think I would vote of the 205 GTI 1.9 there are other candidates.
Such as...
306 GTI-6 / Rallye
106 GTI / Rallye
206 GTI 180
Saxo VTS
AX GT
BX GTI 16v
ZX 16v
Xsara VTS
Williams Clio
Clio Trophy
Clio 172 Cup
Clio V6 255
Clio 197 R27 F1
5 Gordini
Megane R26 F1
The 205 GTI 1.9 mainly because of its grunty engine, and brilliant handling. OK its not that powerful by todays standards, but as it only weighs about 950 kg that doesnt matter too much, and you can have fun and keep your license.
Worthy mentions go to the 106 Rallye, because of how focused it is, an 800 kg car with 100 bhp is always going to be quite a hoot especially when it revs to 8000 rpm as well. Also the Williams Clio as IMO the Clio became a bit soft after that in comparison. The Williams delivers much more feel and weight to the controls and it is a quick and rewarding car.
The maddest vote would go to the R5 Gordini, which is just mental. Almost as mental is the Clio V6 255. Great fun but at the price there are better driving cars, good to be seen in though, and nice V6 growl. The engine is a bit of a screamer too, for a V6, revving to 7500 RPM or so and producing peak power at a lofty 7200 RPM.
Have you noticed how yesterdays hot hatches are slower than the newer designs, yet it is always the classic stuff that is held in a higher regard, just going to prove that newer stuff has been dulled down and detached in comparison, even if you are going quicker. For example, I found a Mk2 Golf GTI 8v with a pathetic 112 bhp was actually more fun to drive than my old Clio 182, because the clio was just that much more detached from the drive than the Golf. Of course the clio would murder it in a race, but the Golf didnt really feel particularly slow. In older cars, they often feel like they are going faster than they are and I think this is a key appeal of such cars and why modern stuff does not interest me any more. To me a hot hatch is meant to be fun at all speeds, not just flat out. That experience taught me that faster doesnt equal better.
205 GTI 1.9, 106 Rallye, Williams Clio. Three hot hatches which are around 10 years old or more, outdoing modern stuff for fun. Not the most powerful, but the most fun.
Thats my opinion, whats yours?
Although I think I would vote of the 205 GTI 1.9 there are other candidates.
Such as...
306 GTI-6 / Rallye
106 GTI / Rallye
206 GTI 180
Saxo VTS
AX GT
BX GTI 16v
ZX 16v
Xsara VTS
Williams Clio
Clio Trophy
Clio 172 Cup
Clio V6 255
Clio 197 R27 F1
5 Gordini
Megane R26 F1
The 205 GTI 1.9 mainly because of its grunty engine, and brilliant handling. OK its not that powerful by todays standards, but as it only weighs about 950 kg that doesnt matter too much, and you can have fun and keep your license.
Worthy mentions go to the 106 Rallye, because of how focused it is, an 800 kg car with 100 bhp is always going to be quite a hoot especially when it revs to 8000 rpm as well. Also the Williams Clio as IMO the Clio became a bit soft after that in comparison. The Williams delivers much more feel and weight to the controls and it is a quick and rewarding car.
The maddest vote would go to the R5 Gordini, which is just mental. Almost as mental is the Clio V6 255. Great fun but at the price there are better driving cars, good to be seen in though, and nice V6 growl. The engine is a bit of a screamer too, for a V6, revving to 7500 RPM or so and producing peak power at a lofty 7200 RPM.
Have you noticed how yesterdays hot hatches are slower than the newer designs, yet it is always the classic stuff that is held in a higher regard, just going to prove that newer stuff has been dulled down and detached in comparison, even if you are going quicker. For example, I found a Mk2 Golf GTI 8v with a pathetic 112 bhp was actually more fun to drive than my old Clio 182, because the clio was just that much more detached from the drive than the Golf. Of course the clio would murder it in a race, but the Golf didnt really feel particularly slow. In older cars, they often feel like they are going faster than they are and I think this is a key appeal of such cars and why modern stuff does not interest me any more. To me a hot hatch is meant to be fun at all speeds, not just flat out. That experience taught me that faster doesnt equal better.
205 GTI 1.9, 106 Rallye, Williams Clio. Three hot hatches which are around 10 years old or more, outdoing modern stuff for fun. Not the most powerful, but the most fun.
Thats my opinion, whats yours?
Edited by pbirkett on Saturday 2nd February 17:40
I too think the best one is probably the 205 gti.
Obviously not in terms of full on power etc.
But i think its the best because of the massive impact it had on its generation and became a benchmark for hatchbacks. Still today, 20 odd years on, people still compare new hatchbacks to the little pug. What a legend
If it went for the 205, god knows what hothatches would be like.
Obviously not in terms of full on power etc.
But i think its the best because of the massive impact it had on its generation and became a benchmark for hatchbacks. Still today, 20 odd years on, people still compare new hatchbacks to the little pug. What a legend
If it went for the 205, god knows what hothatches would be like.
i have a 205 mi-16 track slag itch that just doesnt seem to EVER go away...
If this makes sense: i feel like i am heading in a different direction on the 'ladder' at the moment and am fairly determined to have a 98 DC2 ITR as the next steed BUT i really really want to say that at somepoint i owned a properly sorted 205!
I cannot walk down the road, see a tidy 205, and not cross over for a closer look.
My buddy in Edinburgh Al has just the sort of 205 i want. 1.6 box, alloy mi16 and all the right things done to it, slightly tatty, but goes stops and turns like a dream
If this makes sense: i feel like i am heading in a different direction on the 'ladder' at the moment and am fairly determined to have a 98 DC2 ITR as the next steed BUT i really really want to say that at somepoint i owned a properly sorted 205!
I cannot walk down the road, see a tidy 205, and not cross over for a closer look.
My buddy in Edinburgh Al has just the sort of 205 i want. 1.6 box, alloy mi16 and all the right things done to it, slightly tatty, but goes stops and turns like a dream
Edited by theboymoon on Saturday 2nd February 20:00
I've never found the 205 GTi to live up to all the hype personally. Good, yes. But absoloutely awesome? Not really. I prefer the 309 for the drive (Goowood ideally).
Saxo VTS/106 GTi need a mention too, but I find I prefer Rallye's to GTi's and the Saxo VTS was a victim of the VTR's success. It is genuinely a great hot hatch, but the VTR sold out so much the VTS will always rather unfairly carry the chav image with it. Reality is the majority of Saxo enthusiasts are decent petrolheads.
For something that screams "French" and "hot hatch" it's probably got to be the 106 Rallye. A unique style, lightweight body, little screamer of an engine and short gears with nimble handling all add up to greatness.
I've got a BX 16v, and I couldn't class it as a hot hatch really. You can do battle with other hot hatches of the same era and generally get the better of them, but it can't be hustled along twight winding roads like a small car. It's more of an A road blaster than a hairpin king, almost a performance saloon (rivals being the XR4i and the Cavvy GSi2000).
306 GTi6 would be worth noting too, as the engine is a peach and it looks cool with a decent hot hatch feel. But I can't say its best, because in my opinion, I'd spend the money on a Xsara VTS. Cheaper, quicker (apparently the 306 is over geared having 6 speeds) and a better interior. It loses to the 306 on looks and image though, and they are nearly as important as the speed.
Older Clio 16v and the Williams are brillant, the Williams being immense. They have the looks and the guts to make it, but I found the handling on the 16v a bit soft. Never been lucky enough to pilot a Williams though. The 5 GT Turbo would be one of my favourites too, purely for the unique character of it.
There aren't many French Fry I wouldn't like to be honest, I'm a sucker for all and I believe they make the best hot hatches. But my number one would be the AX GT. Probably get flamed for it, but I've had 4 now and they're epic. Really really basic, probably the slowest overall too. Brakes are crap, build shambolic, driving position is totally wrong.....but they're huge fun. Everytime I drive one I want to just go flat out where ever I am or where ever I'm going. They always feel like they're giving 110% when you bury the throttle and you have to work hard to keep it going on a tight road. Everything down to the red stripes on the carpets is just so cheesey and cool. Love it! I've found whenever an AX GT comes up in coversation with anyone else, theres always someone who's had a mate of a mate's brother who had one once and they only ever have good things to say about them.
Saxo VTS/106 GTi need a mention too, but I find I prefer Rallye's to GTi's and the Saxo VTS was a victim of the VTR's success. It is genuinely a great hot hatch, but the VTR sold out so much the VTS will always rather unfairly carry the chav image with it. Reality is the majority of Saxo enthusiasts are decent petrolheads.
For something that screams "French" and "hot hatch" it's probably got to be the 106 Rallye. A unique style, lightweight body, little screamer of an engine and short gears with nimble handling all add up to greatness.
I've got a BX 16v, and I couldn't class it as a hot hatch really. You can do battle with other hot hatches of the same era and generally get the better of them, but it can't be hustled along twight winding roads like a small car. It's more of an A road blaster than a hairpin king, almost a performance saloon (rivals being the XR4i and the Cavvy GSi2000).
306 GTi6 would be worth noting too, as the engine is a peach and it looks cool with a decent hot hatch feel. But I can't say its best, because in my opinion, I'd spend the money on a Xsara VTS. Cheaper, quicker (apparently the 306 is over geared having 6 speeds) and a better interior. It loses to the 306 on looks and image though, and they are nearly as important as the speed.
Older Clio 16v and the Williams are brillant, the Williams being immense. They have the looks and the guts to make it, but I found the handling on the 16v a bit soft. Never been lucky enough to pilot a Williams though. The 5 GT Turbo would be one of my favourites too, purely for the unique character of it.
There aren't many French Fry I wouldn't like to be honest, I'm a sucker for all and I believe they make the best hot hatches. But my number one would be the AX GT. Probably get flamed for it, but I've had 4 now and they're epic. Really really basic, probably the slowest overall too. Brakes are crap, build shambolic, driving position is totally wrong.....but they're huge fun. Everytime I drive one I want to just go flat out where ever I am or where ever I'm going. They always feel like they're giving 110% when you bury the throttle and you have to work hard to keep it going on a tight road. Everything down to the red stripes on the carpets is just so cheesey and cool. Love it! I've found whenever an AX GT comes up in coversation with anyone else, theres always someone who's had a mate of a mate's brother who had one once and they only ever have good things to say about them.
My dad had an AX GT, when I was a youngun. Did seem like it was great fun and it was my personal favourites out of the cars he owned (which to be fair, for the most part, were boring). Maybe the fact it is only about 720 kg that helps with the fun factor? I seem to remember the engine being pretty revvy too.
Yeah the weight probably plays alot in the making of it, but with the mega short gearing and the twin-choke carb (so you get that extra kick when you pin it!) it always made me smile. As I said, they're not balls out fast by any means. Most of the cars in that list would destory them on straights and in bends. I think I managed to just about push a 205 1.6 Gti along in mine, but that was really gunning it. But its just the way they go about it all, the noise and feel. And the rattles....god you want rattles, get one of those!!
Its only when you ponder a question like this you realize what an illustrious history of hot-hatchery France has; some absolute gems in the list given by the OP. If forced, I'd have to say 205GTi - haven't driven a Williams though.
Top 5 (some on experience, some on folklore!):
205GTi
Williams
106 Rallye
182 Trophy
306 Rallye
Top 5 (some on experience, some on folklore!):
205GTi
Williams
106 Rallye
182 Trophy
306 Rallye
boobles said:
r1ch said:
If you think the 205 is a crap car then you've clearly had a bad example.
Ofcourse, totally agree.Both mine were bad examples but im sure most of them are fine.
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