£22k Bentley Continental GT - running costs?

[Boshly]

I think 300bhp has received an unnecessarily hard time on this thread.

The way I read it he was talking 'principal' and asking those 'more knowledgable' (Andrew W-G for one) to explain or point out the errors of his thought process. All he got was "you don't know but we do". Very helpful. Bentley technician did go on to provide what was probably the most helpful piece of advice but failed really to elaborate enough for my interest; and yes I am a potential used CGT purchaser. Many quoted their experiences of main dealer costs but I think the idea is there are alternatives.

I know for a fact, that many specialist indies, of all types, are able to source many parts and keep many cars running at considerably cheaper than a main dealer. Yet for some reason, most on here are more intent on maintaining the mystique of £10k pa running costs (I exaggerate a tad of course).

I know a couple of guys who run a Bentley Indie who make a damn good living, and I mean a damn good living, from significantly undercutting the Main dealers.

Not Bentley orientated, but a quote by one indie for a new water pump on my 928 S4 was £580 just for the supply of the Porsche item, which was recommended over the non OEM item available. My other Porsche indie sourced the exact same water pump as OEM from Germany and fitted for £350. I had a potential issue with a 996 Turbo S gearbox, which was going to cost £14k exc vat parts only. My Indie sourced a refurbed low mileage 2nd hand one for £3.5k (still in my garage!!! Must get rid!!!)

Why can't there be similar stories for a CGT? I am of course under no disillusion that there could or will be big bills in the wings but surely they don't have to be all at Main Dealer prices?

I think that's what 300bhp was trying to say, with some reasonable (albeit Internet based) research. Regrettably no-one offered much in response. 300bhp, I followed your thought process, shame it couldn't be taken to another level.

[k-ink]

I think the pricnicple of what you are saying may be sound. But for example - what do you do if the company doesn't even make head gaskets as stated? You are left with two choices: buying a brand new engine from a dealer, or hoping to find a used engine which wont go wrong from a breakers. Then you have electrical issues - is there an indy with the computers to diagnose all the faults properly? I didn't notice a reply which answered any of these pitfalls. Hugely complex, lack of spares, hugely expensive. Not a recipe for sleepless nights is it.

[kev b]

Not so many years ago, my brother paid a fortune for a code reader/data logger device for his garage business as he needed to interogate the increasingly complex electrical systems of his customers cars. Each make had to have, at extra cost a dedicated chip card to enable him to access said make, these cards cost a chunk as wll. Now for less than £100 you can buy software for your laptop which will do everything the expensive data logger will do and more. My point is, todays cutting edge technology will be availble to the man on the street for next to nothing in a few short years. I would equate a VW Bently with the Porsche 928 - cutting edge when it came out but DIY nowadays, with the caveat that many a 928 has been scrapped because of HVAC or ABS problems which, allied with deferred maintenance made them uneconomic to repair.

[Boshly]

For clarity, my 'spannering' ability extends to putting in fuel and writing out cheques, so bear in mind when I ask/answer questions

I am shocked at lack of head gasket, but can another be made to fit? Can a proper fitting one not be made cheaper than a replacement engine? I have a friend whose business manufactures machined alloy items for most F1 teams. He can make virtually anything out of metal, surely a gasket is easier?

I have heard horror stories about the looms but again a bit too much secrecy/mystery on this thread. How much for a new loom fitted? £5k? £10k? I will try and find out.

If the cars cheap enough, you can build that in but unless your really really unlucky you won't have all issues at once?

Let's hear some more detail from the real people that know.

[blugnu]

This is a totally non-PH reply, but here goes.

The best reply is the one that says "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"

It's nothing like the same league, but I got a bit brassic towards the end of my Alfa ownership (I say nothing like the same league - the car was half the price of this Bentley when I bought it, but the repairs I guess were nothing like as much)

Now I loved that Alfa, and if it suited my life now (i.e the boot was 50% larger and the suspension lasted longer than 60k) I'd have another in a heartbeat. But I can tell you that there is no pleasure to be had in driving a car that you suspect may be a time-bomb. You drive it thinking

"Did I hear a new noise then?" and "Did it just miss a beat? Is that significant?" or "Did the clutch slip a tiny bit?" and "Is it a bit slower / more vague than in ought to be?"

And frankly, you don't enjoy it. Mine got a fault where the nearside rear light never went out, which meant a flat battery every few days if you didn't drive it. To fix it it needed a new rev counter assembly, for that contained the control circuit - not massively expensive, but enough for me at the time. I can't imagine a car where the whole loom may fail at a cost of 5 figures will be any fun to own once you notice a single electrical gremlin.

So I wouldn't get it. You sound young, and having £30k or so to spare now is a great position to be in, but you have a lot of life left to live, and you might find that one day you really need some of that.

If you have a Bentley itch, hire one for a fortnight or a month and do a proper tour in it. Then come home and buy a car that combines what you liked most about the Bentley with more realistic repair costs. I'm sure an old & series will do all you wish, and you can get a petrol one for almost nothing. Of course if what you want out of Bentley ownership is for people to say 'Ooh, you have a Bentley' then you might be best off getting new friends

Alternatively, get a classic car that will appreciate and still be 'impressive'

[flatline84]

"If you have to ask - you cant afford it" is something of a clichè - but it still rings true.

The thing is, the fact that its even on your mind is unavoidably going to tar your entire ownership experience.
In my opinion, you should find a car you can afford to repair nearly regardless of what will go wrong with it.
The thought of driving around in a 150 grand car bought for peanuts sounds cool and is cool I guess, but you have to keep in mind the running costs are meant to be handled by people who frankly dont care or wont look twice on a 5-digit bill.

I think the very best of ownership experiences comes with 100% confidence that the car wont ruin you, and you can enjoy it for what is it. A car.

[AndrewW-G]

Boshly said:

The way I read it he was talking 'principal' and asking those 'more knowledgable' (Andrew W-G for one) to explain or point out the errors of his thought process. All he got was "you don't know but we do".

I quoted parts prices, wholesale costs of oil etc. that would enable a DIY service and all 300BHP could do, was continue to claim he could do an oil change for less than £60 . . . . . . . wholesale cost of a suitably rated oil is approx £5 per litre, a filter is £17. 12 X £5 + £17 + £.50 (sump washer) = £77.50.

When somebody refuses to accept a simple cost analysis, based on real prices, there's no point continuing the discussion. . . . .

Completely agree that the Bentley Tech had the best advice

In case anybody is wondering what is involved in a service and what it costs from a respected indy

http://www.pmcuk.com/content.asp?id=84

[flatline84]

So for a 100k mile 2003 model we are looking at a £1800 service, provided NOTHING else needs changing.
I can see that turning ugly- and fast.

[rswift]

So, just in case I have missed something, has the OP bought it or not yet ?

Just for what it's worth a few years ago I bought an old Bentley Turbo for £4k. I kept it for a few months, had some fun, got it out of my system and made a modest profit. Last year bought an unseen Rolls Royce Shadow 1 off Ebay, mainly as I wanted the number plate. Car cost £4500, kept it for a few months. It was horrible to drive, but I always wanted one. Now I have had one. I kept the plate & sold the car for the price I paid for it originally.

22k is a lot more money to outlay, but my gut feeling that a) unlikely to experience massive engine failure or similar catastrophic failures. It may well develop niggles and faults, but the key to this is a bit of lateral thinking, research and knowledge of independents etc.

If anyone doesn't fancy the risk, or reward of the Bentley, or any slightly left field car ... easy solution. Just buy a Fiesta.

Personally I hope he buys it.

Edited by rswift on Thursday 31st May 14:44

[Boshly]

AndrewW-G said:

Boshly said:

The way I read it he was talking 'principal' and asking those 'more knowledgable' (Andrew W-G for one) to explain or point out the errors of his thought process. All he got was "you don't know but we do".

I quoted parts prices, wholesale costs of oil etc. that would enable a DIY service and all 300BHP could do, was continue to claim he could do an oil change for less than £60 . . . . . . . wholesale cost of a suitably rated oil is approx £5 per litre, a filter is £17. 12 X £5 + £17 + £.50 (sump washer) = £77.50.

When somebody refuses to accept a simple cost analysis, based on real prices, there's no point continuing the discussion. . . . .

In case anybody is wondering what is involved in a service and what it costs from a respected indy

http://www.pmcuk.com/content.asp?id=84

You are misquoting him, I've just looked back and he said an oil change only would cost £150. An annual service would cost more but not nec the costs you quoted. Most of that schedule is general checks, and if nothing else is found then no problem. A proper diagnostic would of course be a must.

The service schedule and quotes you refer to have been the most useful thing you have posted to this thread (along with "do some research") but I would suggest that an owner is not even committed to those costs and could make further savings with good spanner ability and/or a very good local mechanic. Wether you would want to or not and whether it would affect resale is another argument but it's possible.

[blugnu]

rswift said:

S
If the any doesn't fancy the risk, or reward of the Bentley, or any slightly left field car ... easy solution. Just buy a Fiesta.

Fiesta + £110k - risk = Bentley + rewards

Just need a value for 'risk' and reward.

I guess worst case is it develops a fault, uses his £10k fund in repairs and then explodes any way - total cost £32k

Fiesta + £110k -£32k = Bentley + rewards

re-ordered

Bentley = Fiesta + £78k - rewards

No wonder hardly anyone buys them

[AndrewW-G]

Boshly said:

You are misquoting him, I've just looked back and he said an oil change only would cost £150.

, he said £50-90 and then "Why pay £500+ for an oil change if you can get exactly the same thing for £60? "

[rswift]

blugnu said:

No wonder hardly anyone buys them

Well you say that, but I work in Mayfair for a couple of days each week, they are everywhere !

On another forum someone posted the phrase;

"In London you are never more than 8ft away from a Range Rover Sport" I think the same could be extended to the Bentley, and in fact possibly the RR Phantom.

[blugnu]

rswift said:

Well you say that, but I work in Mayfair for a couple of days each week, they are everywhere !

On another forum someone posted the phrase;

"In London you are never more than 8ft away from a Range Rover Sport" I think the same could be extended to the Bentley, and in fact possibly the RR Phantom.

I go to Earls Court a few times a year - I see more scabby 10+ year old Golfs I have to say

[Boshly]

AndrewW-G said:

Boshly said:

You are misquoting him, I've just looked back and he said an oil change only would cost £150.

, he said £50-90 and then "Why pay £500+ for an oil change if you can get exactly the same thing for £60? "

Yes you are right and I'm happy to admit my mistake (was on phone previously so got mixed up) however you clearly state yourself that an oil change would cost £150, not £500 nor the nigh £800 from Phantom Motors.

For reference their service schedule (how refreshing to see a full schedule shown AND the price listed inc vat and parts) includes an oil change, a diagnostic, replacement of the fob batteries, replacement of the pollen filter and wipers, lubrication of sunroof mechanism and 32 other "checks" mostly visual. So where does the extra £500ish go? I reckon the other bits can be done in an hour? Two?

I fully appreciate that PM have overheads such as insurances, training, rent/rates etc and they have to make a profit (though I'm sure many 'discovered' problems during the check process will help here ) but if you could avoid such an Indie (should you want to, and I wouldn't for resale purposes) you can carry out same for considerably less. That's the point. Big if, I accept, but it doesn't have to be thus.

Anyhow, we've done it to death and I now notice you are a workshop type business yourself so you're never going to agree. 300bhp had a point though, shame he didn't get cut a bit more slack as he was polite and trying to research and learn whilst offering his thoughts.

[Balmoral]

Stuart's not so hot on his spelling, but it's a minor thing only relevant to PH (Spelling matters).

Make no mistake, Phantom are an excellent Indy. They've been looking after my car for 12 years and I wouldn't take it anywhere else, and they're not exactly local for me. They have lots of fans on the PH RR&B forum, and lots of fans out there in RR&B land in general too, especially with their racing.

For the later sportier cars, Turbo R generation onwards to the current Conti GT, they have no peers IMO.

BTW, they're no overpriced glass & chrome gin palace either, it's a scruffy little place like a backstreet garage, but in a charming little village location.

Edited by Balmoral on Friday 1st June 19:15

[Balmoral]

Boshly said:

you clearly state yourself that an oil change would cost £150, not £500 nor the nigh £800 from Phantom Motors.

I don't know where that came from? Phantom would charge the cost of the oil, and the labour, about £50 an hour.

[AndrewW-G]

Balmoral said:

Boshly said:

you clearly state yourself that an oil change would cost £150, not £500 nor the nigh £800 from Phantom Motors.

I don't know where that came from? Phantom would charge the cost of the oil, and the labour, about £50 an hour.

The £728 is the cost of a 10k service at Phantom

[Balmoral]

Take the oil & filter out, and that's an awful lot of checking left to do

[sturobturbo]

Balmoral said:

Take the oil & filter out, and that's an awful lot of checking left to do

About 730 quits worth of checks, I should imagine!
Whether you run this car via an indi or main dealer, it's going to be an expensive car to run, but an indi will be less expensive. But who cares what it costs to run, you'll be driving a Bently for less than a stey new Golf!!