Poor, skint person contemplating a Turbo R....
Discussion
WelshBentleyBoy said:
In my experience of a Continental R and an Arnage T, Balmoral is spot on the button. A set of tyres is £800-£1000, a 60,000 hydraulic service £2500- £3500, steering racks and ball joints can all go and that is before the sills have needed doing. A windscreen is over £2k if not covered by insurance. Yes you can save by getting work done more economically but these are complicated machines with complicated construction methods that originally cost circa £150k. Proper maintenance is inevitably expensive and needs expertise. For me its a simple price/pleasure ratio that I am happy to meet.
But compared to many modern cars they are not at all complicated with many of the basic mechanical parts dating back to the 1960's.Resse, even with one of the best main dealers maintaining his car (while it wanted for nothing) shows that ownership costs can be very reasonable. As he says these are a "bucket list" car and no one should be put off owning one by scare stories of massive annual maintenance bills.
Edited by Byteme on Tuesday 20th May 21:06
RESSE said:
We run a 1994 Turbo RL and have owned it since 1995 (gosh hard to believe nearly 20 years).
170,000+ miles under her belt(s) and the car has been a delight to own and still a joy to drive.
Minimal mileage over the past 5 years has helped to keep the mechanical bills/service charges lower than when she was doing 5,000 to 8,000 miles per annum (obvious I know but worth mentioning).
Recently some corrosion/paint work has needed fixing, nothing major but I think these older cars need to be in as good as condition as one can afford to maintain?
In my opinion a 'Bucket List' motor car.
A few £Thousands needed per annum to keep on top of things and bigger £s for larger items.
Where was the corrosion?
170,000+ miles under her belt(s) and the car has been a delight to own and still a joy to drive.
Minimal mileage over the past 5 years has helped to keep the mechanical bills/service charges lower than when she was doing 5,000 to 8,000 miles per annum (obvious I know but worth mentioning).
Recently some corrosion/paint work has needed fixing, nothing major but I think these older cars need to be in as good as condition as one can afford to maintain?
In my opinion a 'Bucket List' motor car.
A few £Thousands needed per annum to keep on top of things and bigger £s for larger items.
Where was the corrosion?
RESSE said:
Corrosion:
Boot lock surround and some bubbling on wings.
I can take a few photos of the bubbling.
The paint off the front valance is stone chipped but not bad for 170,000 miles.
I will take some close up photos on Friday for you to see.
With regard to the boot, you have a late car with the benefit of all of the latest anti corrosion solutions. No serious problems here and no more than 3-5 hours labour plus materials to correct.Boot lock surround and some bubbling on wings.
I can take a few photos of the bubbling.
The paint off the front valance is stone chipped but not bad for 170,000 miles.
I will take some close up photos on Friday for you to see.
The wings are another issue altogether but photos will allow me to give some general guidance
The front is just a paint issue due to poor choice of materials and excessive paint thickness.
I'm guessing that you still remember the days when all Broughtons mechanics wore a shirt and tie under their overalls, even in summer!
Edited by Byteme on Tuesday 20th May 22:51
Byteme said:
But compared to many modern cars they are not at all complicated with many of the basic mechanical parts dating back to the 1960's.
Resse, even with one of the best main dealers maintaining his car (while it wanted for nothing) shows that ownership costs can be very reasonable. As he says these are a "bucket list" car and no one should be put off owning one by scare stories of massive annual maintenance bills.
Hang on a sec. Reese posted a breakdown of costs last year which was this:Resse, even with one of the best main dealers maintaining his car (while it wanted for nothing) shows that ownership costs can be very reasonable. As he says these are a "bucket list" car and no one should be put off owning one by scare stories of massive annual maintenance bills.
Edited by Byteme on Tuesday 20th May 21:06
2011 £4,976.46
2011 £1,177.33
2011 £4,674.35
2010 £2,416.85
2009 £1,927.39
2009 £3,681.15
2009 £893.77
2008 £1,234.47
2008 £640.88
2007 £808.41
2007 £131.40
2007 £6,952.20
2007 £772.67
2007 £315.28
2006 £1,457.56
2006 £1,914.03
2006 £2,619.94
2006 £251.77
2005 £176.25
2005 £2,774.83
2004 £471.13
2004 £374.02
2003 £451.92
That comes to £41,094.06 which over the 9 year period is £4,566.01 per year. You said
Byteme said:
Ignore Balmoral's post, he's being "mugged" by whoever looks after his car.
when Balmoral posted a figure of spending £4K a year. So why isn't Reese being mugged when he is spending £500 more a year than Balmoral? Complicated construction?
I seem to remember Ed China on Wheeler Dealers bemoaning the over engineering of a Turbo R when he attempted to prime one for sale. Over engineering = complications = extra expense.
There may be short cuts for those with mechanical abilities but it would appear that it will still take them longer for a task than on simpler vehicles and without those skills the costs of employing someone to do it for you will reflect those complications.
The basic approach should be to have a suitable Indie check the car out before purchase but even after all these precautions you could still be hit for a £2k-£3k-£4k bill in one go. As an old school motor trader client of mine used to say "You can't X-ray an engine"
If all this puts you off a possible purchase then go and buy a Kia with a 7 year warranty but remember the old Tibetan proverb:
"It is better to live one day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep"
Paul
I seem to remember Ed China on Wheeler Dealers bemoaning the over engineering of a Turbo R when he attempted to prime one for sale. Over engineering = complications = extra expense.
There may be short cuts for those with mechanical abilities but it would appear that it will still take them longer for a task than on simpler vehicles and without those skills the costs of employing someone to do it for you will reflect those complications.
The basic approach should be to have a suitable Indie check the car out before purchase but even after all these precautions you could still be hit for a £2k-£3k-£4k bill in one go. As an old school motor trader client of mine used to say "You can't X-ray an engine"
If all this puts you off a possible purchase then go and buy a Kia with a 7 year warranty but remember the old Tibetan proverb:
"It is better to live one day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep"
Paul
It seems clear with the examination of various posters' spends that £2-4k/annum is a safe bet for keeping these cars on an acceptable-->excellent spectrum of health. Whether £4k/annum seems "too much" is clearly a matter of perspective and in my opinion not unreasonable when running an expensive car, be that a Bentley, Ferrari, Porsche etc. The upside with these particular cars is of course that their depreciation curve has hit the floor. So you'll only be losing money on one front!
I bought mine in Jan and YTD spent £11k, a good chunk of that to take care of previous mechanical neglect and lack of recent proper servicing (including Hydraulics). Cosmetically, both interior and coachwork, it is in good order. The price I paid for the car accounted for this neglect yet the chap who sold it to me was adamant that I was "crazy" and "getting done over" to pay specialist prices to sort it out; he was convinced other people could do it for much cheaper. And of course much of the money I put in was fixing stupid mistakes by previous mechanics who'd had a go and inadvertently fouled things up. Prior to its period of neglect my car was serviced mostly at Jack Barclay (it's a 1995) and even when new averaged £2-3k on out of warranty servicing and £3-4k per year after that.
OP: these cars are not currently an investment and likely won't be for a very long time. Therefore go into this knowing that your spend on correctly maintaining your Turbo R will quickly exceed it's "value" (which by one measure is what you could hope to resell it for). Does that make financial sense? NO. But then again most cars -(insert your exceptions here!) - turn into financial blackholes over their lifespan.
I've used Silver Lady Services in Bourmemouth and very happy with Steve. I know it's not exactly close to Devon but nearer than some of the other popular places.
I bought mine in Jan and YTD spent £11k, a good chunk of that to take care of previous mechanical neglect and lack of recent proper servicing (including Hydraulics). Cosmetically, both interior and coachwork, it is in good order. The price I paid for the car accounted for this neglect yet the chap who sold it to me was adamant that I was "crazy" and "getting done over" to pay specialist prices to sort it out; he was convinced other people could do it for much cheaper. And of course much of the money I put in was fixing stupid mistakes by previous mechanics who'd had a go and inadvertently fouled things up. Prior to its period of neglect my car was serviced mostly at Jack Barclay (it's a 1995) and even when new averaged £2-3k on out of warranty servicing and £3-4k per year after that.
OP: these cars are not currently an investment and likely won't be for a very long time. Therefore go into this knowing that your spend on correctly maintaining your Turbo R will quickly exceed it's "value" (which by one measure is what you could hope to resell it for). Does that make financial sense? NO. But then again most cars -(insert your exceptions here!) - turn into financial blackholes over their lifespan.
I've used Silver Lady Services in Bourmemouth and very happy with Steve. I know it's not exactly close to Devon but nearer than some of the other popular places.
I think we can all agree that the average spend per year although somewhat dependant upon mileage or luck is around the £4K mark to keep a Turbo R in very good running order give or take a £1K.
To buy a good example you would be very lucky to buy at £6K and probably £12K to £15K is nearer the mark. I did not want a late model car so around £10K is the norm.
I read various threads on PH and other forums that bang on about the escalating values of their cars.
20 years ago a good mate bought a Shadow 11 for £15.5K with 40,000 miles on the clock. Today with 46,445 miles on the clock I reckon it is worth about what he paid for it back then.
What I paid for Hatty is between me and WG. I am glad that these cars are not escalating all of a sudden towards a £100k or before you know it towards £250k.
I want to use my Turbo R and not become overly prescious about it. Bejesus I'd break their arms if I caught someone defacing Hatty but I'll gladly leave a neat set of 11's up the road.
To buy a good example you would be very lucky to buy at £6K and probably £12K to £15K is nearer the mark. I did not want a late model car so around £10K is the norm.
I read various threads on PH and other forums that bang on about the escalating values of their cars.
20 years ago a good mate bought a Shadow 11 for £15.5K with 40,000 miles on the clock. Today with 46,445 miles on the clock I reckon it is worth about what he paid for it back then.
What I paid for Hatty is between me and WG. I am glad that these cars are not escalating all of a sudden towards a £100k or before you know it towards £250k.
I want to use my Turbo R and not become overly prescious about it. Bejesus I'd break their arms if I caught someone defacing Hatty but I'll gladly leave a neat set of 11's up the road.
I'm still deliberating!
Decided it's got to be a Turbo R even though a late Brooklands really appeals... and is cheaper. I'd love one of the last TRs with the 400hp engine but, the prices are all over the place. You guys have sold me on the Turbo R engine though and I do rather enjoy a bit of 'go' on occassion. Also, I know that if I get a Brooklands there will always be a part of me (a major part) that keeps on about the TR I should have bought.
I think it's got to be a mid 90's edition. I like the centre gearchange (I'm very odd!) and I like the later wheels rather than the early ones. I'm not so bothered about exterior colour so long as it's not green or black but the interior has got to be a nice light colour with nice wood (not birds eye maple). I saw a lovely red one, but the wood was red as well - hated it!
I know this is going to be a major expense both to buy and also maintain, and I dread buying what I think is a 'good' car with sensible miles and nice history and then instantly getting hit for a further few thousand on repairs. This will probably be a 'last' car as there will be bugger all chance of ever selling it for what it owes after repairs, so I'd like it to be a good 'un. I do very little mileage anyway (3000 pa) so fuel costs aren't even being considered.
Any advice on what Mark I need to be looking for, differences between them, active ride (which I hear about but don't understand) etc?
Decided it's got to be a Turbo R even though a late Brooklands really appeals... and is cheaper. I'd love one of the last TRs with the 400hp engine but, the prices are all over the place. You guys have sold me on the Turbo R engine though and I do rather enjoy a bit of 'go' on occassion. Also, I know that if I get a Brooklands there will always be a part of me (a major part) that keeps on about the TR I should have bought.
I think it's got to be a mid 90's edition. I like the centre gearchange (I'm very odd!) and I like the later wheels rather than the early ones. I'm not so bothered about exterior colour so long as it's not green or black but the interior has got to be a nice light colour with nice wood (not birds eye maple). I saw a lovely red one, but the wood was red as well - hated it!
I know this is going to be a major expense both to buy and also maintain, and I dread buying what I think is a 'good' car with sensible miles and nice history and then instantly getting hit for a further few thousand on repairs. This will probably be a 'last' car as there will be bugger all chance of ever selling it for what it owes after repairs, so I'd like it to be a good 'un. I do very little mileage anyway (3000 pa) so fuel costs aren't even being considered.
Any advice on what Mark I need to be looking for, differences between them, active ride (which I hear about but don't understand) etc?
Active ride is a clever system which uses the shox as rams to prevent excessive roll when cornering hard. It works very well - until a shock goes. About 600 a corner.
The later centre change gearboxes are the GM 6L80E, which is a VAST improvement over the old 'box. being electronic it gives better performance and also better economy.
After '96 there is little difference. all these later cars are far more reliable. Having said that, '98 on have bigger brakes. Only problem with that is the disc and pad prices are about 4x the earlier ones.
Don't worry too much about trim / wood colour as complete interiors are not expensive and pretty easy to change. I have a complete tan interior plus wood if needed!
The later centre change gearboxes are the GM 6L80E, which is a VAST improvement over the old 'box. being electronic it gives better performance and also better economy.
After '96 there is little difference. all these later cars are far more reliable. Having said that, '98 on have bigger brakes. Only problem with that is the disc and pad prices are about 4x the earlier ones.
Don't worry too much about trim / wood colour as complete interiors are not expensive and pretty easy to change. I have a complete tan interior plus wood if needed!
WelshBentleyBoy said:
Complicated construction?
I seem to remember Ed China on Wheeler Dealers bemoaning the over engineering of a Turbo R when he attempted to prime one for sale. Over engineering = complications = extra expense.
There may be short cuts for those with mechanical abilities but it would appear that it will still take them longer for a task than on simpler vehicles and without those skills the costs of employing someone to do it for you will reflect those complications.
The basic approach should be to have a suitable Indie check the car out before purchase but even after all these precautions you could still be hit for a 2k-3k-4k bill in one go. As an old school motor trader client of mine used to say "You can't X-ray an engine"
If all this puts you off a possible purchase then go and buy a Kia with a 7 year warranty but remember the old Tibetan proverb:
"It is better to live one day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep"
Paul
Wheeler Dealers is a light entertainment show that anyone with hands-on would regard as comedy.I seem to remember Ed China on Wheeler Dealers bemoaning the over engineering of a Turbo R when he attempted to prime one for sale. Over engineering = complications = extra expense.
There may be short cuts for those with mechanical abilities but it would appear that it will still take them longer for a task than on simpler vehicles and without those skills the costs of employing someone to do it for you will reflect those complications.
The basic approach should be to have a suitable Indie check the car out before purchase but even after all these precautions you could still be hit for a 2k-3k-4k bill in one go. As an old school motor trader client of mine used to say "You can't X-ray an engine"
If all this puts you off a possible purchase then go and buy a Kia with a 7 year warranty but remember the old Tibetan proverb:
"It is better to live one day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep"
Paul
plasticpig said:
when Balmoral posted a figure of spending 4K a year. So why isn't Reese being mugged when he is spending 500 more a year than Balmoral?
I have spent the last few days looking for a car for a close relative. The first one inspected had relatively recent invoices for more than 40,000 and was a piece of junk. The last owner, who paid for this, had obviously been raped mercilessly. This work was carried out by a "recognised" independent specialist.plasticpig said:
Byteme said:
But compared to many modern cars they are not at all complicated with many of the basic mechanical parts dating back to the 1960's.
Resse, even with one of the best main dealers maintaining his car (while it wanted for nothing) shows that ownership costs can be very reasonable. As he says these are a "bucket list" car and no one should be put off owning one by scare stories of massive annual maintenance bills.
Hang on a sec. Reese posted a breakdown of costs last year which was this:Resse, even with one of the best main dealers maintaining his car (while it wanted for nothing) shows that ownership costs can be very reasonable. As he says these are a "bucket list" car and no one should be put off owning one by scare stories of massive annual maintenance bills.
Edited by Byteme on Tuesday 20th May 21:06
2011 4,976.46
2011 1,177.33
2011 4,674.35
2010 2,416.85
2009 1,927.39
2009 3,681.15
2009 893.77
2008 1,234.47
2008 640.88
2007 808.41
2007 131.40
2007 6,952.20
2007 772.67
2007 315.28
2006 1,457.56
2006 1,914.03
2006 2,619.94
2006 251.77
2005 176.25
2005 2,774.83
2004 471.13
2004 374.02
2003 451.92
That comes to 41,094.06 which over the 9 year period is 4,566.01 per year. You said
Byteme said:
Ignore Balmoral's post, he's being "mugged" by whoever looks after his car.
when Balmoral posted a figure of spending 4K a year. So why isn't Reese being mugged when he is spending 500 more a year than Balmoral? A proper repaint would have been 10,000 twenty five years ago. Would you include that as essential maintenance?
graemel said:
I think we can all agree that the average spend per year although somewhat dependant upon mileage or luck is around the 4K mark to keep a Turbo R in very good running order give or take a 1K.
To buy a good example you would be very lucky to buy at 6K and probably 12K to 15K is nearer the mark. I did not want a late model car so around 10K is the norm.
I read various threads on PH and other forums that bang on about the escalating values of their cars.
20 years ago a good mate bought a Shadow 11 for 15.5K with 40,000 miles on the clock. Today with 46,445 miles on the clock I reckon it is worth about what he paid for it back then.
What I paid for Hatty is between me and WG. I am glad that these cars are not escalating all of a sudden towards a 100k or before you know it towards 250k.
I want to use my Turbo R and not become overly prescious about it. Bejesus I'd break their arms if I caught someone defacing Hatty but I'll gladly leave a neat set of 11's up the road.
Latest purchase is a very nice LPT Brooklands. Quite happy to provide all costs over the next 12 months.To buy a good example you would be very lucky to buy at 6K and probably 12K to 15K is nearer the mark. I did not want a late model car so around 10K is the norm.
I read various threads on PH and other forums that bang on about the escalating values of their cars.
20 years ago a good mate bought a Shadow 11 for 15.5K with 40,000 miles on the clock. Today with 46,445 miles on the clock I reckon it is worth about what he paid for it back then.
What I paid for Hatty is between me and WG. I am glad that these cars are not escalating all of a sudden towards a 100k or before you know it towards 250k.
I want to use my Turbo R and not become overly prescious about it. Bejesus I'd break their arms if I caught someone defacing Hatty but I'll gladly leave a neat set of 11's up the road.
Hi Byteme,
You seem to be very knowledgable about our cars and I for one would be interested to see the running costs for your Brooklands LPT over the next year. Would be great to see some photos too.
But I do think you have been rather forthright with your views and harsh on those who were merely sharing their own experience of costs.
Hope you enjoy your new car,
Andy
You seem to be very knowledgable about our cars and I for one would be interested to see the running costs for your Brooklands LPT over the next year. Would be great to see some photos too.
But I do think you have been rather forthright with your views and harsh on those who were merely sharing their own experience of costs.
Hope you enjoy your new car,
Andy
9six4 said:
Hi Byteme,
You seem to be very knowledgable about our cars and I for one would be interested to see the running costs for your Brooklands LPT over the next year. Would be great to see some photos too.
But I do think you have been rather forthright with your views and harsh on those who were merely sharing their own experience of costs.
Hope you enjoy your new car,
Andy
Thanks Andy. You seem to be very knowledgable about our cars and I for one would be interested to see the running costs for your Brooklands LPT over the next year. Would be great to see some photos too.
But I do think you have been rather forthright with your views and harsh on those who were merely sharing their own experience of costs.
Hope you enjoy your new car,
Andy
The reason for my rather abrasive posts is largely due to the fact that I feel that as many people as possible should be encouraged to experience these cars. Scare stories of 4k/year running costs will put many purchasers off and only result in more cars being scrapped.
I have no doubt that it is quite possible to spend that amount, or more, however I also believe that with the right car expenditure could be minimal. The car is currently having paintwork to all four doors carried out to remedy the usual corrosion beneath the door handles and fence mouldings. My guess is that this will cost around 600 but as this is being paid for by the seller will be not be taken into account with respect to running costs. The first purchase will be a new set of lambswool rugs, hardly essential but in my opinion an item that adds so much to the Rolls-Royce/Bentley driving experience.
I do have some knowledge of these cars and of course this is a huge asset however I have no control over what may fail unexpectedly. My biggest fear is an electronic failure of some kind but if this is on a non essential system I will try and work around it.
I will update costs on the first day of each month and will also compare against the running costs of my Silver Shadow II. My hope, given the very similar cost of purchase and initial spend, is that the two will never be far apart.
Hi Byteme,
I look forward to your monthly updates and I fully support your desire to encourage others to experience these magnificent cars - ownership was a long held ambition and has fully met with my expectations.
For reference, during the four years I have owned my car (Corniche) it has cost me GBP 2,500-3,000 per annum for maintenance. However, this sum does include improvements that make no discernible difference to the enjoyment I am able to derive from my car, other than to satisfy my own preferences as I intend to keep it for the long term.
Andy
I look forward to your monthly updates and I fully support your desire to encourage others to experience these magnificent cars - ownership was a long held ambition and has fully met with my expectations.
For reference, during the four years I have owned my car (Corniche) it has cost me GBP 2,500-3,000 per annum for maintenance. However, this sum does include improvements that make no discernible difference to the enjoyment I am able to derive from my car, other than to satisfy my own preferences as I intend to keep it for the long term.
Andy
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