MCS 'Death Rattle'
Discussion
Hello all,
I have just purchased a 2007 S from a non Mini garage.
However occationally the car has a rattle on cold mornings for about 30 seconds. I understand that this could be what is referred to as the death rattle.
I have a 3 month warranty (not with BMW) so I will be trying to get this fixed, but my real question is whether if this is not fixed will it damage the engine in the long term?
Also has anyone had this fixed either at a BM garage or other and how much it costs.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks
JP
I have just purchased a 2007 S from a non Mini garage.
However occationally the car has a rattle on cold mornings for about 30 seconds. I understand that this could be what is referred to as the death rattle.
I have a 3 month warranty (not with BMW) so I will be trying to get this fixed, but my real question is whether if this is not fixed will it damage the engine in the long term?
Also has anyone had this fixed either at a BM garage or other and how much it costs.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks
JP
Hi there,
It depends who you ask.
MINI and many others will tell you that it will not do any damage, however people who have had it will tell you otherwise. The rattle wears various parts of the chain system and the chain will eventually snap.
A member on here named Doogz had his snap a few weeks back. There was a new "fix" released for it about a month ago (this is like the 4th or 5th "fix" for it) which apparantly has finally solved the issue.
Costwise I couldn't tell you sorry.
It depends who you ask.
MINI and many others will tell you that it will not do any damage, however people who have had it will tell you otherwise. The rattle wears various parts of the chain system and the chain will eventually snap.
A member on here named Doogz had his snap a few weeks back. There was a new "fix" released for it about a month ago (this is like the 4th or 5th "fix" for it) which apparantly has finally solved the issue.
Costwise I couldn't tell you sorry.
My son had it on his 57 plate coopers S, the timing chain and adjuster was replaced under warranty after I went in armed with a load of info I down loaded from the MINI2 forum. They, a BMW Mini main dealer, weren't having it before I presented them with the evidence, he was being given the, 'they all do that line'. Since the fix the car has performed faultlessly and no re-occurence.
Do a search on mini2 forum there's loads on there
Do a search on mini2 forum there's loads on there
Hello,
Thanks for the replies.
The rattle is still ongoing but the car appears to have developed a more serious problem.
Under acceleration the car stutters. A friend of mine as all the diagonostic equipment and the error code on the car are saying a cyclinder 1 misfire!
So hopefully just a spark plug, but who knows. The car is going into the garage on Monday so fingers, crossed nothing to serious.
This car is starting to grate a little now.
Thanks for the replies.
The rattle is still ongoing but the car appears to have developed a more serious problem.
Under acceleration the car stutters. A friend of mine as all the diagonostic equipment and the error code on the car are saying a cyclinder 1 misfire!
So hopefully just a spark plug, but who knows. The car is going into the garage on Monday so fingers, crossed nothing to serious.
This car is starting to grate a little now.
Just got the car back from the garage. Cylinder one coil had gone. All repaired and small bill for £100. 3rd party warranty said they will pay for 50 of the pounds. So quite happy. With regards to the rattle I have spoken in person to the local BMW manager and he assures me that it is just a rattle and does not damage the car. If something cam related goes he will have a big problem in the shape of me! Lol
That brings me onto my next question/ dilemma whether to buy the BMW extended warranty?
That brings me onto my next question/ dilemma whether to buy the BMW extended warranty?
Car is still struggling under load!
Car back to garage, apparently all coils need changing.
Done,
Car still not fixed same issue. God knows what the bill is going to be. This car is starting to grate which is a shame. I not getting chance to love the car as it always appears to be broken. I just hoping it is nothing too major!
Car back to garage, apparently all coils need changing.
Done,
Car still not fixed same issue. God knows what the bill is going to be. This car is starting to grate which is a shame. I not getting chance to love the car as it always appears to be broken. I just hoping it is nothing too major!
Finally car fixed, it turned out to be in need of 4 new spark plugs!?
I am no mechanic but I would have thought those should have been checked first?
So was out driving the other day and I was in 6th doing about 60mph and put my foot down and the revs jumped up and then dropped down again.
Long and the short, cluth has gone!
Cheeky £435 for new clutch.
I have done less than 300 miles since purchase.
Speachless.
I am no mechanic but I would have thought those should have been checked first?
So was out driving the other day and I was in 6th doing about 60mph and put my foot down and the revs jumped up and then dropped down again.
Long and the short, cluth has gone!
Cheeky £435 for new clutch.
I have done less than 300 miles since purchase.
Speachless.
Shame you've had to spend money on your MCS soo soon.
I changed the timing chain tensioner on my gf's 07 MCS today. The updated part cost £16 and is noticeably different to the part I removed, which appeared to be the original part.
If you are mechanically minded I can let you know how I went about it.
I coupled it with an oil change, and a drive afterwards seemed to show that the engine was less noisy in general, and there was no rattle, or the harmonic vibration/buzz that we'd noticed had started to happen at various points in the rev range.
I changed the timing chain tensioner on my gf's 07 MCS today. The updated part cost £16 and is noticeably different to the part I removed, which appeared to be the original part.
If you are mechanically minded I can let you know how I went about it.
I coupled it with an oil change, and a drive afterwards seemed to show that the engine was less noisy in general, and there was no rattle, or the harmonic vibration/buzz that we'd noticed had started to happen at various points in the rev range.
coanda said:
Shame you've had to spend money on your MCS soo soon.
I changed the timing chain tensioner on my gf's 07 MCS today. The updated part cost £16 and is noticeably different to the part I removed, which appeared to be the original part.
If you are mechanically minded I can let you know how I went about it.
I coupled it with an oil change, and a drive afterwards seemed to show that the engine was less noisy in general, and there was no rattle, or the harmonic vibration/buzz that we'd noticed had started to happen at various points in the rev range.
Please do explain I changed the timing chain tensioner on my gf's 07 MCS today. The updated part cost £16 and is noticeably different to the part I removed, which appeared to be the original part.
If you are mechanically minded I can let you know how I went about it.
I coupled it with an oil change, and a drive afterwards seemed to show that the engine was less noisy in general, and there was no rattle, or the harmonic vibration/buzz that we'd noticed had started to happen at various points in the rev range.
mine has a similar issue Ok,
The boring stuff -
If you aren't totally happy messing about under the bonnet, then DO NOT follow these instructions! If you decide to go ahead - this worked for me, but may not for you for any number of unknown reasons. Proceed at your own risk.
You will need.....
Spanners/sockets from 27mm down to 7mm in a variety of standard sizes
A set of driver bits which include torx and hex head bits,
A flat bladed screwdriver,
Patience.
Consumables.....
5 litres of engine oil, as recommended by the manufacturer (I used Castrol EDGE 0w-30 this time round). Engine capacity is 4.3 litres.
New oil filter cartridge
Latest timing chain tensioner - I have installed this part:
http://www.minigenuineparts.co.uk/mini-parts/info_...
What I did.....
I think it best to change the oil/filter when you do this, as it appears you need to drop the oil anyway, given that the tensioner is hydraulically assisted by engine oil.
So, drop the oil by opening the oil filler cap and the dipstick tube, and then undo the sump plug with a hex head bit or allan key. Opening the filler/dipstick allows oil to drain quicker, as air can easily fill the space previously filled with oil. You can change the filter cartridge by undoing the bolt securing the coolant expansion tank and tilting it towards you, off the locating tabs and then rotating it left. The pipes should be flexible enough for you to rest it to the left of its previous position. Don't remove the pipes! The oil filter assembly is removed using a 27mm socket on an extension bar. Leave the oil to drain for a while and most of it will be removed from the filter housing. Remember to finally remove it by hand and rotate it to catch any spills before they can happen, as the filter points upwards, so is liable to spill.
Whilst the oil is draining we can get down to the nitty-gritty. The timing chain tensioner is located on the back face of the timing chain cover (as you look at it from the front of the car, adjacent to the left hand side of the air filter assembly. Its a big bolt, and you'll see it if you look down that back face, nicely blocked by air pipes!
The air pipes were a complete pig on our car. They've been put together really well at the factory, so are a bit of a job to remove. Everything was a little stuck together.
Basically, you need to remove the big black piping in this area. There are two sections to remove; the 90 degree rubber bend which meets the plastic pipe coming from the bumper, and the hard plastic coupler that it joins on to.
There are three retaining clamps (two big, one small) and one large circlip. First get the 90 degree bend off by loosening the large clamp and also removing the circlip holding the bend on to the plastic coupler. I needed to slide a flat bladed screw driver around most of the clamped join to free it up, before it could be pulled off the plastic pipe. The circlip'd end comes free very easily once the circlip is removed - just pull! Then loosen off the small clamp holding a small hose on to a side inlet on the coupler (behind the braided wiring loom), and the large clamp holding the coupler on to the rubber pipe below it. Again, persuasion was required to loosen these parts off, but they will come off eventually. All clamps are loosened using a 7mm socket/spanner or a flat bladed screw driver. The space is minimal so find which ever one works for you best. I would recommend slackening the clamps right off. Please be careful if you have to free up the joints like I did, I'm pretty sure a screw driver poking through an air hose, or a torn end wouldn't be funny!
Ok, with these finally off we can see the tensioner clearly.
Using your 27mm socket/spanner, you can undo the tensioner like any other bolt. You will need to bend the big rubber hose out of the way, but it will make way quite easily. I used the largest socket wrench in my Halfords Advanced Pro kit, and didn't need an extension bar to get the bolt undone. Remove it quite quickly as its likely to be at most, half full of oil. Now compare it to the replacement. If you squeeze the tensioner, it is likely that oil will spurt out so I did this wrapped in a bag, to purge the piston of engine oil to begin with. I found the replacement to have a longer piston, more thread on the main body, a different washer and to have a significantly higher spring force over the original part.
At this point the replacement part is put back in to the engine and tightened up. I didn't find any torque values, so I had to go by the feel I got when I initially loosened the bolt. This is an oil seal, so it does need to be done up tight to stop leaks.
The engine is made ready for new oil by cleaning and reinstalling the drain plug/washer, and also putting the new oil filter in. The cartridge element is secured on a small tab, and can be pulled off with a little effort. Make sure the new one is also secured by the tabs. To be honest, you should also replace the sealing o-ring on the filter housing (should be in with the filter), and also put oil in the filter housing. You couldn't keep much oil in there when screwing it back on so I didn't bother. The filter housing is screwed back on to the engine, until it bottoms out, and then I added another quarter of a turn, this is sufficient to stop spills (on my car anyway.). Once the engine is oil-tight, pour in 4 litres of oil, and then reassemble the air pipes.
Make sure the clamps are nice and straight, and done up nice and tight. I put the circlip in the first groove of the connector pipe, with the turned ends pointing downwards. One end sits behind raised bumps on the connector, and the other end snaps around the other side of the connector, in the channel. This is enough to secure the 90 degree bend pipe because of the ridges on the metal ends of the 90 degree pipe. I got this wrong first of all and it blew off, whilst driving sedately, with a loud whooosh.
When the car is fully reassembled, with the correct level of oil and free from oil leaks, start the engine and let it warm up a little. Then run the car stationary at 2000rpm for 2 minutes. This is what I remember from a thread that I can't find anymore. This is a running in process to get the piston filled with oil. Then, if all is ok, go for a drive, and see if you notice a difference. This is apparently why you need to have this job done at a dealership. I think they plug the car into the computer, and the computer can perform this 'priming' operation.
More on the piston....
I predicted that the original part may not even have a spring in the barrel, and it might all rely on oil pressure, so it was interesting to see how weak the spring was on the part I removed. When you look at the part, there are two small holes towards the head of the bolt. These are for oil filling. I reckon that, depending on the position of those holes when the tensioner is fully tight in the engine, oil can leak fully out of the tensioner, making it more susceptible to rattle until the oil pressure has increased. So we could have anything from remaining half full, to draining out entirely. With the old part, this could have been a major issue when cold, because the chain whip may have been enough to fully depress the piston.
Hope this is of some help.
The boring stuff -
If you aren't totally happy messing about under the bonnet, then DO NOT follow these instructions! If you decide to go ahead - this worked for me, but may not for you for any number of unknown reasons. Proceed at your own risk.
You will need.....
Spanners/sockets from 27mm down to 7mm in a variety of standard sizes
A set of driver bits which include torx and hex head bits,
A flat bladed screwdriver,
Patience.
Consumables.....
5 litres of engine oil, as recommended by the manufacturer (I used Castrol EDGE 0w-30 this time round). Engine capacity is 4.3 litres.
New oil filter cartridge
Latest timing chain tensioner - I have installed this part:
http://www.minigenuineparts.co.uk/mini-parts/info_...
What I did.....
I think it best to change the oil/filter when you do this, as it appears you need to drop the oil anyway, given that the tensioner is hydraulically assisted by engine oil.
So, drop the oil by opening the oil filler cap and the dipstick tube, and then undo the sump plug with a hex head bit or allan key. Opening the filler/dipstick allows oil to drain quicker, as air can easily fill the space previously filled with oil. You can change the filter cartridge by undoing the bolt securing the coolant expansion tank and tilting it towards you, off the locating tabs and then rotating it left. The pipes should be flexible enough for you to rest it to the left of its previous position. Don't remove the pipes! The oil filter assembly is removed using a 27mm socket on an extension bar. Leave the oil to drain for a while and most of it will be removed from the filter housing. Remember to finally remove it by hand and rotate it to catch any spills before they can happen, as the filter points upwards, so is liable to spill.
Whilst the oil is draining we can get down to the nitty-gritty. The timing chain tensioner is located on the back face of the timing chain cover (as you look at it from the front of the car, adjacent to the left hand side of the air filter assembly. Its a big bolt, and you'll see it if you look down that back face, nicely blocked by air pipes!
The air pipes were a complete pig on our car. They've been put together really well at the factory, so are a bit of a job to remove. Everything was a little stuck together.
Basically, you need to remove the big black piping in this area. There are two sections to remove; the 90 degree rubber bend which meets the plastic pipe coming from the bumper, and the hard plastic coupler that it joins on to.
There are three retaining clamps (two big, one small) and one large circlip. First get the 90 degree bend off by loosening the large clamp and also removing the circlip holding the bend on to the plastic coupler. I needed to slide a flat bladed screw driver around most of the clamped join to free it up, before it could be pulled off the plastic pipe. The circlip'd end comes free very easily once the circlip is removed - just pull! Then loosen off the small clamp holding a small hose on to a side inlet on the coupler (behind the braided wiring loom), and the large clamp holding the coupler on to the rubber pipe below it. Again, persuasion was required to loosen these parts off, but they will come off eventually. All clamps are loosened using a 7mm socket/spanner or a flat bladed screw driver. The space is minimal so find which ever one works for you best. I would recommend slackening the clamps right off. Please be careful if you have to free up the joints like I did, I'm pretty sure a screw driver poking through an air hose, or a torn end wouldn't be funny!
Ok, with these finally off we can see the tensioner clearly.
Using your 27mm socket/spanner, you can undo the tensioner like any other bolt. You will need to bend the big rubber hose out of the way, but it will make way quite easily. I used the largest socket wrench in my Halfords Advanced Pro kit, and didn't need an extension bar to get the bolt undone. Remove it quite quickly as its likely to be at most, half full of oil. Now compare it to the replacement. If you squeeze the tensioner, it is likely that oil will spurt out so I did this wrapped in a bag, to purge the piston of engine oil to begin with. I found the replacement to have a longer piston, more thread on the main body, a different washer and to have a significantly higher spring force over the original part.
At this point the replacement part is put back in to the engine and tightened up. I didn't find any torque values, so I had to go by the feel I got when I initially loosened the bolt. This is an oil seal, so it does need to be done up tight to stop leaks.
The engine is made ready for new oil by cleaning and reinstalling the drain plug/washer, and also putting the new oil filter in. The cartridge element is secured on a small tab, and can be pulled off with a little effort. Make sure the new one is also secured by the tabs. To be honest, you should also replace the sealing o-ring on the filter housing (should be in with the filter), and also put oil in the filter housing. You couldn't keep much oil in there when screwing it back on so I didn't bother. The filter housing is screwed back on to the engine, until it bottoms out, and then I added another quarter of a turn, this is sufficient to stop spills (on my car anyway.). Once the engine is oil-tight, pour in 4 litres of oil, and then reassemble the air pipes.
Make sure the clamps are nice and straight, and done up nice and tight. I put the circlip in the first groove of the connector pipe, with the turned ends pointing downwards. One end sits behind raised bumps on the connector, and the other end snaps around the other side of the connector, in the channel. This is enough to secure the 90 degree bend pipe because of the ridges on the metal ends of the 90 degree pipe. I got this wrong first of all and it blew off, whilst driving sedately, with a loud whooosh.
When the car is fully reassembled, with the correct level of oil and free from oil leaks, start the engine and let it warm up a little. Then run the car stationary at 2000rpm for 2 minutes. This is what I remember from a thread that I can't find anymore. This is a running in process to get the piston filled with oil. Then, if all is ok, go for a drive, and see if you notice a difference. This is apparently why you need to have this job done at a dealership. I think they plug the car into the computer, and the computer can perform this 'priming' operation.
More on the piston....
I predicted that the original part may not even have a spring in the barrel, and it might all rely on oil pressure, so it was interesting to see how weak the spring was on the part I removed. When you look at the part, there are two small holes towards the head of the bolt. These are for oil filling. I reckon that, depending on the position of those holes when the tensioner is fully tight in the engine, oil can leak fully out of the tensioner, making it more susceptible to rattle until the oil pressure has increased. So we could have anything from remaining half full, to draining out entirely. With the old part, this could have been a major issue when cold, because the chain whip may have been enough to fully depress the piston.
Hope this is of some help.
Edited by coanda on Saturday 3rd September 10:29
New to this but here goes. My 2007 MCS developed the rattle/lumpy idle and loss of power. Only had the car for 4 months but only got 45k on click and full mini TLC/TLC XL service history. Took it into local mini dealership and the confirmed timing chain had jumped!!!
Believe it or not mini have agreed to pay for parts and 70% of labour! Sound good? What's even better is that I contacted the independent dealer I bought it from and even though it is out of their 3 month warranty, I quoted the sale of goods act which entitles you to a refund / contribution to repair / or full repair if the fault occurs within 6 months. They agreed without any questions to either repair for free themselves or pay the difference for mini to carry out the work.
If you have any problems with a car out of warranty in the UK and it's out of warranty but you've had it less than 6 months, the dealer you bought it from HAVE to sort it for you. Google Sales of Goods Act and you'll find the information
Believe it or not mini have agreed to pay for parts and 70% of labour! Sound good? What's even better is that I contacted the independent dealer I bought it from and even though it is out of their 3 month warranty, I quoted the sale of goods act which entitles you to a refund / contribution to repair / or full repair if the fault occurs within 6 months. They agreed without any questions to either repair for free themselves or pay the difference for mini to carry out the work.
If you have any problems with a car out of warranty in the UK and it's out of warranty but you've had it less than 6 months, the dealer you bought it from HAVE to sort it for you. Google Sales of Goods Act and you'll find the information
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