MINI Timing Chain Tensioner - Engine Siezure
Discussion
Been doing some research on this as a recent mini owner that might be affected, don't actually have a cold start rattle as such, but a zinging noise for a second or so which apparently is the oil pump priming?
Anyway it seems that mini in the states are sending out letters to owners requesting they take their cars into dealers for them to inspect the slack in the camchain, to determine if it is beyond serviceable limits, and therefore a new timing chain set and tensioner to be fitted, also due to the number of failing high pressure fuel pumps that have been noted, those have been extended with cover for 12 years or 100k, now we here in the uk are still being fobbed off by mini, stating there is no recall at all (or enhancement program as they like to phrase it) for these item's, even though all the engine's worldwide as far as I know are all assembled just up the road from me at Hams Hall ...we're getting f
ked over here as we don't complain enough about things like the yanks do ....
Anyway it seems that mini in the states are sending out letters to owners requesting they take their cars into dealers for them to inspect the slack in the camchain, to determine if it is beyond serviceable limits, and therefore a new timing chain set and tensioner to be fitted, also due to the number of failing high pressure fuel pumps that have been noted, those have been extended with cover for 12 years or 100k, now we here in the uk are still being fobbed off by mini, stating there is no recall at all (or enhancement program as they like to phrase it) for these item's, even though all the engine's worldwide as far as I know are all assembled just up the road from me at Hams Hall ...we're getting f
ked over here as we don't complain enough about things like the yanks do ....Edited by rigga on Monday 6th January 06:12
Supposedly the N18 should not suffer from the timing chain problems, BUT, one guy has reported an issue with his on one of the forums and is booked into his local dealer on the 7th of Jan for investigation, so yet to see, and it's a relatively young engine so issues may not yet have surfaced.
As for the other manufacturers using the N14, Citroen and Peugeot, I've not looked into that, they do though suffer from the also common coking up issues, and have altered the breather/pcv lines by deleting the cam cover pipe to the inlet manifold and blanking off the ports, leaving the other pcv line to the Turbo side to do the venting duties, mini have changed nothing and still insist there is nothing wrong and its a feature of the engine (which it is being a direct injection engine) they do though have walnut blasting machines at main dealers to clean up the inlet valves as its another erner for them.
Edit to add that after a quick search both Citroen and Peugeot also are suffering with the same issues on their cars (ds3 207 etc etc) as its the same engine...what a disaster as there must be a hell of a lot of these car's with failing cam chain tensioners running around.
As for the other manufacturers using the N14, Citroen and Peugeot, I've not looked into that, they do though suffer from the also common coking up issues, and have altered the breather/pcv lines by deleting the cam cover pipe to the inlet manifold and blanking off the ports, leaving the other pcv line to the Turbo side to do the venting duties, mini have changed nothing and still insist there is nothing wrong and its a feature of the engine (which it is being a direct injection engine) they do though have walnut blasting machines at main dealers to clean up the inlet valves as its another erner for them.
Edit to add that after a quick search both Citroen and Peugeot also are suffering with the same issues on their cars (ds3 207 etc etc) as its the same engine...what a disaster as there must be a hell of a lot of these car's with failing cam chain tensioners running around.
Edited by rigga on Monday 6th January 15:28
rigga said:
Been doing some research on this as a recent mini owner that might be affected, don't actually have a cold start rattle as such, but a zinging noise for a second or so which apparently is the oil pump priming?
Anyway it seems that mini in the states are sending out letters to owners requesting they take their cars into dealers for them to inspect the slack in the camchain, to determine if it is beyond serviceable limits, and therefore a new timing chain set and tensioner to be fitted, also due to the number of failing high pressure fuel pumps that have been noted, those have been extended with cover for 12 years or 100k, now we here in the uk are still being fobbed off by mini, stating there is no recall at all (or enhancement program as they like to phrase it) for these item's, even though all the engine's worldwide as far as I know are all assembled just up the road from me at Hams Hall ...we're getting fked over here as we don't complain enough about things like the yanks do ....
Thanks for posting I'll take this down to the BMW service centre this week and ask for my £900 refund! fAnyway it seems that mini in the states are sending out letters to owners requesting they take their cars into dealers for them to inspect the slack in the camchain, to determine if it is beyond serviceable limits, and therefore a new timing chain set and tensioner to be fitted, also due to the number of failing high pressure fuel pumps that have been noted, those have been extended with cover for 12 years or 100k, now we here in the uk are still being fobbed off by mini, stating there is no recall at all (or enhancement program as they like to phrase it) for these item's, even though all the engine's worldwide as far as I know are all assembled just up the road from me at Hams Hall ...we're getting f
ked over here as we don't complain enough about things like the yanks do ....Edited by rigga on Monday 6th January 06:12
king s! The engine from '07-'11 is simply not fit for purpose. Thinking about it more haw cheesed me off enough to write to watchdog who have featured the N14 engine issues before I believe, probably do the grand sum of fk all but I've never felt strongly enough about anything before to do it, I suggest other mini owners who have experienced engine problems and BMW's refusal to acknowledge the inherent fault's and cover the repair costs do the same, hell even if you have been lucky so far I'd still suggest you do it, as you may well need help sooner rather than later.
Mail to BMW mini also to ask for an explanation to why we don't get the same treatment here compared to the states ....if I get a reply ill post it up.
k all but I've never felt strongly enough about anything before to do it, I suggest other mini owners who have experienced engine problems and BMW's refusal to acknowledge the inherent fault's and cover the repair costs do the same, hell even if you have been lucky so far I'd still suggest you do it, as you may well need help sooner rather than later.Mail to BMW mini also to ask for an explanation to why we don't get the same treatment here compared to the states ....if I get a reply ill post it up.
Edited by rigga on Wednesday 8th January 23:28
My wife is thinking about a getting a Cooper S, probably about 2010, but I have read quite a lot about the saga of the timing chain in various sources.
To get the problem into perspective and try to assess the size of the risk, can anyone help me with the following queries?
1. How widespread is the problem – does it eventually occur in all engines at some point.
2. If the answer to 1. is ‘it will happen eventually to all engines’, is there a ‘most likely’ mileage range within which it may occur?
3. If it is not a universal problem, can anyone say what percentage of engines have already been affected?
4. If the problem is identified and new timing gear fitted, will that be a permanent fix, or is the new timing gear still liable to fail within a relatively short mileage?
5. Is there a MY, from which point onward, the problem has been resolved?
My wife really would like to have a Cooper S, so thanks for any knowledge you could share with me.
Thanks
To get the problem into perspective and try to assess the size of the risk, can anyone help me with the following queries?
1. How widespread is the problem – does it eventually occur in all engines at some point.
2. If the answer to 1. is ‘it will happen eventually to all engines’, is there a ‘most likely’ mileage range within which it may occur?
3. If it is not a universal problem, can anyone say what percentage of engines have already been affected?
4. If the problem is identified and new timing gear fitted, will that be a permanent fix, or is the new timing gear still liable to fail within a relatively short mileage?
5. Is there a MY, from which point onward, the problem has been resolved?
My wife really would like to have a Cooper S, so thanks for any knowledge you could share with me.
Thanks
There is no definite percentage of engines that the timing chain issue will affect, it is though accepted that it will affect a great number as even though there have been at least 3 revisions of tensioner, none have really cured the problem. Age wise again up to the introduction of the N18 engine all 07 to 10 car's may suffer at some point, keeping to the extended oil change intervals, and letting the oil level drop too low will possibly swing the probability of chain wear, these engine's do consume oil. Mini uk flatly deny there is any problem with the engine,, and refuse to match the extra cover given to American mini owner's, I got up to director level (well Chris Brownridge's minion anyway), and the same response was always given.
Replacing the timing chain and tensioner is no guarantee of a permanent fix, as its the same components and not an updated improved set.
Replacing the timing chain and tensioner is no guarantee of a permanent fix, as its the same components and not an updated improved set.
On my third Mini, the current being an 08 Cooper S Clubman with 51k and full main dealer service history. Been hearing what I now understand to be the "Death Rattle" and it's been drinking about a litre of oil a week. Shan't be buying into the Mini brand again. Previous one was an 05 Cooper Convertible and that caught fire, power steering pump went. Pretty obvious that the build quality really isn't great.
Had an interesting experience at Dick Lovett Mini in Swindon yesterday. Long and short of it is that I may get a "gesture of goodwill" from Mini, funny,that was the response when the last one caught fire! Still likely to cost me well in excess of £500.00. They really are taking the piss. Maybe my expectation that a modern car from a premium brand and maintained in accordance with the service schedule, should do 100,000 miles without any real issues is clearly totally unrealistic !!
As for customer service from Mini the "we take our customer service very seriously" line is very true. That of course is provided you've got your debit card somewhere handy.
Anyone reading this who's had the same problem please do contact me. Perhaps we could collectively get together and start legal proceedings. How many cars are actually out there with major engine failure about to happen at any time.
Best
Ian K
Had an interesting experience at Dick Lovett Mini in Swindon yesterday. Long and short of it is that I may get a "gesture of goodwill" from Mini, funny,that was the response when the last one caught fire! Still likely to cost me well in excess of £500.00. They really are taking the piss. Maybe my expectation that a modern car from a premium brand and maintained in accordance with the service schedule, should do 100,000 miles without any real issues is clearly totally unrealistic !!
As for customer service from Mini the "we take our customer service very seriously" line is very true. That of course is provided you've got your debit card somewhere handy.
Anyone reading this who's had the same problem please do contact me. Perhaps we could collectively get together and start legal proceedings. How many cars are actually out there with major engine failure about to happen at any time.
Best
Ian K
ash73 said:
geoffm said:
My wife is thinking about a getting a Cooper S, probably about 2010, but I have read quite a lot about the saga of the timing chain in various sources.
I don't think the problem affects the N18 engine, which was introduced in the MCS from 2010.My 35k mile 06 R53 suffered from a timing chain tensioer issue but it was a plunger type part that was on the way out, made the engine sound very tappety like hydraulic tappets starved of oil if you know what that sounds like. Maybe nowhere near as widespread as the R56 debacle but the R53 can still can have issues in this area.
CO2000 said:
My 35k mile 06 R53 suffered from a timing chain tensioer issue but it was a plunger type part that was on the way out, made the engine sound very tappety like hydraulic tappets starved of oil if you know what that sounds like. Maybe nowhere near as widespread as the R56 debacle but the R53 can still can have issues in this area.
The R53 does have a similar issue, but the part is £35 and takes about 5 minutes to change.Its also not a engine destroying problem, unlike the cheese engined R56.
Sir_Dave said:
CO2000 said:
My 35k mile 06 R53 suffered from a timing chain tensioer issue but it was a plunger type part that was on the way out, made the engine sound very tappety like hydraulic tappets starved of oil if you know what that sounds like. Maybe nowhere near as widespread as the R56 debacle but the R53 can still can have issues in this area.
The R53 does have a similar issue, but the part is £35 and takes about 5 minutes to change.Its also not a engine destroying problem, unlike the cheese engined R56.
CO2000 said:
If it failed completely could it not jump a tooth/teeth and cause damage or does the chain not get slack enough?
Doesnt get slack enough apparently. I asked 1320 about it specifically with my GP1 in case it grenaded itself on startup and they said not to worry too much, just get it sorted when i could.Sir_Dave said:
CO2000 said:
If it failed completely could it not jump a tooth/teeth and cause damage or does the chain not get slack enough?
Doesnt get slack enough apparently. I asked 1320 about it specifically with my GP1 in case it grenaded itself on startup and they said not to worry too much, just get it sorted when i could.
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