Discussion
Im 21 looking to buy a "new" mini cooper s. I'm not really sure whether to save my a a few grand (4-5K) and get an R53 or to spend a couple of grand more (7-8K) and get the R56.
which has the better engine a) for performance on a daily basis and b) reliability.
As i'm only 21, i dont want to fork loads on repairs regularly.
In your opinions, what are the pros and cons of both, and which do you reckon I should buy.
I have test driven both but can decide if i prefer the supercharged engine or the turbo'd.
thanks in advance.
which has the better engine a) for performance on a daily basis and b) reliability.
As i'm only 21, i dont want to fork loads on repairs regularly.
In your opinions, what are the pros and cons of both, and which do you reckon I should buy.
I have test driven both but can decide if i prefer the supercharged engine or the turbo'd.
thanks in advance.
Both can be costly and both have their fair share of common faults!
I chose the R53. I didn't want another turbo.
With your budget I'd buy the best R53 on the market. Get a very late one with the LSD and I can list a few nice to have options if you want me too.
Put a -15% reduced pulley and some coilovers on it. You'll have a bloody fun car that can look classy still.
I chose the R53. I didn't want another turbo.
With your budget I'd buy the best R53 on the market. Get a very late one with the LSD and I can list a few nice to have options if you want me too.
Put a -15% reduced pulley and some coilovers on it. You'll have a bloody fun car that can look classy still.
Yeah the noise is addictive for a few years especially with a -17% pulley and a Dave f Airbox!
As above, mine has the Chrono pack (shows oil temp, oil pressure, water temp and fuel). The oil pressure and temp are just ECU calculations though. The water temp is nice to have though! I don't think they normally have water temp!!!
I have HK sound system, chilli pack is a must. LSD is nice to have.
I would try to find one with the black headlining and charcoal plastics. Looks so much nicer than the cheap silver plastics.
Depending on whether you'll want to modify it or not the later JCW's have a few nice bits. The exhaust and brakes mainly, air box too. I'm not talking about the Brembo's from the R56 although a lot of people retrofit them! The R53 JCW brakes are std fit on the R56 and a big improvement over the R53 brakes.
If you can find an 06 plate with the GP Recaro's they're very nice.
The Aero body kit is a personal choice. I like them and didn't realise how costly it would be to retrofit. So doing it again I'd hold out for one with it fitted from factory. In actual fact, I'd buy a GP. I wouldn't of lost a bean!
As above, mine has the Chrono pack (shows oil temp, oil pressure, water temp and fuel). The oil pressure and temp are just ECU calculations though. The water temp is nice to have though! I don't think they normally have water temp!!!
I have HK sound system, chilli pack is a must. LSD is nice to have.
I would try to find one with the black headlining and charcoal plastics. Looks so much nicer than the cheap silver plastics.
Depending on whether you'll want to modify it or not the later JCW's have a few nice bits. The exhaust and brakes mainly, air box too. I'm not talking about the Brembo's from the R56 although a lot of people retrofit them! The R53 JCW brakes are std fit on the R56 and a big improvement over the R53 brakes.
If you can find an 06 plate with the GP Recaro's they're very nice.
The Aero body kit is a personal choice. I like them and didn't realise how costly it would be to retrofit. So doing it again I'd hold out for one with it fitted from factory. In actual fact, I'd buy a GP. I wouldn't of lost a bean!
The winter pack (heated screen / auto lights and wipers) is nice to have as is digital climate control.
Don't expect any of these options to be listed in an advert! Most people have no idea their 05 plate MCS will likely have an LSD! And traders are even worse!
Mine didn't have any options listed at all! And apart from a few of the ones listed above it has them all! So study the pictures to figure out what it has / hasn't got.
Ask if you need any advice!
Don't expect any of these options to be listed in an advert! Most people have no idea their 05 plate MCS will likely have an LSD! And traders are even worse!
Mine didn't have any options listed at all! And apart from a few of the ones listed above it has them all! So study the pictures to figure out what it has / hasn't got.
Ask if you need any advice!
Here's a nice one from the classifieds .... nowt to do with me but was perusing as you do (r56 jcw owner)
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
It's a difficult choice, everyone likes different aspects. That's Mini though. Many just want the newer model, the latest change, and overlook some of the best cars made, not just these but other cars. It's happened over decades of vehicle production.
Mine has Chilli, Chrono, LSD, Sports Plus suspension, Chrome Line, Visibility (xenon lights, heated front screen, auto dimming interior mirror, rain sensing lights and wipers), Wheels refurbished by Pristine Wheels with a sparkle finish (properly split rims with no bodged bolts), Federal 595RSR's (essentially road legal track tyres) plus the runflats, Full black leather. Black car. Something like £24k new in '05, I have the invoice somewhere, and spec sheet.
35,000 miles
It took soooo long to find and is ace.
Unfortunately it may be just slightly over your budget for even an R56
However
It has a GTT 17% pulley and newly fitted GTT 16 row intercooler, a simple K&N air filter, and just last week a stainless cat back system..... with a right side exit modification and all correctly trimmed with no cuts anywhere.
I'm not exactly a boy racer at 48, but find it difficult using a car in standard form when it can drive like this so easily. Then it is very low mileage and in exceptional condition otherwise I wouldn't have done it
It also has a Kent camshaft (not the one on their webpage) which truthfully liberates the rpm range over 4k and the car is just better for it. I tested the cam in a Mini One of all things originally, and it was great on long journeys, and I'd have another, it was funny.
It was remapped
Barely used since I had it, was taxed for August but sorn'd again. It did 7k in 18 months, but considering here to the Isle of Wight and back is around 800 miles, plus going to GTT etc, and into North Wales for 200+ mile days with Mrs CarsOrBikes it isn't much use.
The above is one example of many. There are some very rough cars out there, treated poorly, and badly worked on, often needing simple things and owners of cars I've seen will spend money on tuning cosmetics over making it safe, some bad paint, dirty inside, you can imagine even if you haven't seen it yet. I still have the standard parts unlike most, but the left exhaust was leaking a bit.
If you were unsure after driving both, you might need to put your put down a bit more I think. The Turbo'd car is powerful and smooth, where the Supercharged car if in nice condition is powerful and urgent. Although my own opinion is that they have a feel of being 'made' to go over 4k, they feel restricted somewhat. The turbo ones don't do anything for me. I could live with one with a shorter final drive perhaps.
Push either a bit harder and my own opinion, is that the R53 is a superior car. You'll find endless comparisons on here and elsewhere, but in general the consensus is that the early car was the drivers car of the two.
I wouldn't get into coilovers really unless you've always wanted them. If the suspension is in good condition and Sports Plus, it is very good, and becomes progressively compliant as you push harder. Only my opinion of course.
Having said that..... I have a set of very nice on car adjustable ones (height and preload plus compression, with pillow ball top mounts, scaled for adjustment, and conversion plates for rear pillowball mounts supplied also haha, still in the box. I sold a few sets and this particular set is my demo to show people.
I'll try and find a pic.
The Turbo car is a Peugeot based 'prince' engine, which is good enough, but more costly to maintain in terms of failing items including timing chain woes. They use a lot of oil and only hold a bit over 4 litres. There is no low oil level indicator and like all of them, the dipstick is hard to read too. So the warning you often get with low oil is noise, the oil pressure light coming on when cornering, or stalling/poor running. If you want to modify the engine it will be more expensive, and that is because it is considered by some, hard to get the fuelling quite right, but also the torque steer is worse than the R53 when standard, let alone when modified. The R53 is a Chrysler based 'Tritec' engine which is a simple design, favouring fitment in the first car. It has the inlet manifold at the front which is better for cool air intake, and the exhaust at the rear, keeping that heat behind the engine. The R56 is the opposite, with the extremely hot catalytic converter behind the radiator and in front of the engine adding more heat which is a tuners enemy.
BMW changed the management of the later car for efficiency and emissions management. The water pump is not constantly driven, but is engaged by an extending arm when required. All in aid of warming the engine as soon as possible and for as long as possible. This is one of the failing parts, and if unattended will cause problems similar to the oil ones.
The R53 is quite fuel thirsty (well actually it can be very thirsty) not hideous and 30's is common, but uses little oil, which at £16-20 per litre for the proper oil at filling stations offsets some fuel cost compared to the oil thirsty R56 which can need it every 1k.
The R56 is a slightly larger car, and there is a little less room around the engine when working too. The headlamps lift on the R53, when the bonnet is lifted, but not on the later car.
None of this may be of any interest haha, but out of some similar posts about one car or the other, I thought I'd reply too.
The Recaro seats would be nice, but they don't match the rear seat design, and I feel pose a greater theft risk as they fit so many cars potentially.
(I like the Tillett seats, which would look good in these cars, but it's easy to get carried away).
The R56 does have bigger brakes slightly, and I know I'd like bigger brakes on mine if I keep it.
A relevant consideration, is that while a standard car is nice, you can get one for what you consider the right price, but the cost of the right alterations is far from cheap. Some will tell you that makes a modified car good value when priced alongside the other standard cars. I'm cautious about that, but the fact is, it could be a could idea to source a car with what you would wish to have, already done properly and tastefully. All the research and trips to tuners, time without the car, poor experiences with bad parts or decisions can be all taken care of, and you get the right car.
Mine has Chilli, Chrono, LSD, Sports Plus suspension, Chrome Line, Visibility (xenon lights, heated front screen, auto dimming interior mirror, rain sensing lights and wipers), Wheels refurbished by Pristine Wheels with a sparkle finish (properly split rims with no bodged bolts), Federal 595RSR's (essentially road legal track tyres) plus the runflats, Full black leather. Black car. Something like £24k new in '05, I have the invoice somewhere, and spec sheet.
35,000 miles
It took soooo long to find and is ace.
Unfortunately it may be just slightly over your budget for even an R56
However
It has a GTT 17% pulley and newly fitted GTT 16 row intercooler, a simple K&N air filter, and just last week a stainless cat back system..... with a right side exit modification and all correctly trimmed with no cuts anywhere.
I'm not exactly a boy racer at 48, but find it difficult using a car in standard form when it can drive like this so easily. Then it is very low mileage and in exceptional condition otherwise I wouldn't have done it
It also has a Kent camshaft (not the one on their webpage) which truthfully liberates the rpm range over 4k and the car is just better for it. I tested the cam in a Mini One of all things originally, and it was great on long journeys, and I'd have another, it was funny.
It was remapped
Barely used since I had it, was taxed for August but sorn'd again. It did 7k in 18 months, but considering here to the Isle of Wight and back is around 800 miles, plus going to GTT etc, and into North Wales for 200+ mile days with Mrs CarsOrBikes it isn't much use.
The above is one example of many. There are some very rough cars out there, treated poorly, and badly worked on, often needing simple things and owners of cars I've seen will spend money on tuning cosmetics over making it safe, some bad paint, dirty inside, you can imagine even if you haven't seen it yet. I still have the standard parts unlike most, but the left exhaust was leaking a bit.
If you were unsure after driving both, you might need to put your put down a bit more I think. The Turbo'd car is powerful and smooth, where the Supercharged car if in nice condition is powerful and urgent. Although my own opinion is that they have a feel of being 'made' to go over 4k, they feel restricted somewhat. The turbo ones don't do anything for me. I could live with one with a shorter final drive perhaps.
Push either a bit harder and my own opinion, is that the R53 is a superior car. You'll find endless comparisons on here and elsewhere, but in general the consensus is that the early car was the drivers car of the two.
I wouldn't get into coilovers really unless you've always wanted them. If the suspension is in good condition and Sports Plus, it is very good, and becomes progressively compliant as you push harder. Only my opinion of course.
Having said that..... I have a set of very nice on car adjustable ones (height and preload plus compression, with pillow ball top mounts, scaled for adjustment, and conversion plates for rear pillowball mounts supplied also haha, still in the box. I sold a few sets and this particular set is my demo to show people.
I'll try and find a pic.
The Turbo car is a Peugeot based 'prince' engine, which is good enough, but more costly to maintain in terms of failing items including timing chain woes. They use a lot of oil and only hold a bit over 4 litres. There is no low oil level indicator and like all of them, the dipstick is hard to read too. So the warning you often get with low oil is noise, the oil pressure light coming on when cornering, or stalling/poor running. If you want to modify the engine it will be more expensive, and that is because it is considered by some, hard to get the fuelling quite right, but also the torque steer is worse than the R53 when standard, let alone when modified. The R53 is a Chrysler based 'Tritec' engine which is a simple design, favouring fitment in the first car. It has the inlet manifold at the front which is better for cool air intake, and the exhaust at the rear, keeping that heat behind the engine. The R56 is the opposite, with the extremely hot catalytic converter behind the radiator and in front of the engine adding more heat which is a tuners enemy.
BMW changed the management of the later car for efficiency and emissions management. The water pump is not constantly driven, but is engaged by an extending arm when required. All in aid of warming the engine as soon as possible and for as long as possible. This is one of the failing parts, and if unattended will cause problems similar to the oil ones.
The R53 is quite fuel thirsty (well actually it can be very thirsty) not hideous and 30's is common, but uses little oil, which at £16-20 per litre for the proper oil at filling stations offsets some fuel cost compared to the oil thirsty R56 which can need it every 1k.
The R56 is a slightly larger car, and there is a little less room around the engine when working too. The headlamps lift on the R53, when the bonnet is lifted, but not on the later car.
None of this may be of any interest haha, but out of some similar posts about one car or the other, I thought I'd reply too.
The Recaro seats would be nice, but they don't match the rear seat design, and I feel pose a greater theft risk as they fit so many cars potentially.
(I like the Tillett seats, which would look good in these cars, but it's easy to get carried away).
The R56 does have bigger brakes slightly, and I know I'd like bigger brakes on mine if I keep it.
A relevant consideration, is that while a standard car is nice, you can get one for what you consider the right price, but the cost of the right alterations is far from cheap. Some will tell you that makes a modified car good value when priced alongside the other standard cars. I'm cautious about that, but the fact is, it could be a could idea to source a car with what you would wish to have, already done properly and tastefully. All the research and trips to tuners, time without the car, poor experiences with bad parts or decisions can be all taken care of, and you get the right car.
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