Which model mini? (Newbie looking)
Discussion
No worries. As much as anything, I was referring to the price gap rather than trying to get you to buy it.
Pricing the car up is a nightmare as you can only see selling prices, not the sold price.
Bearing in mind my wife has an R50 Cooper, 03 and only 33k miles, (which isn't for sale
. ) I would go for an S at least as you really can't overtake very well in the basic Cooper although the roads will be quieter in Somerset than East Sussex but just as twisty......which is where having a Mini is great.
I think it's 115 bhp cooper, to 170 cooper S to 210 bhp for the JCW so there is a big gap between each of them.
Pricing the car up is a nightmare as you can only see selling prices, not the sold price.
Bearing in mind my wife has an R50 Cooper, 03 and only 33k miles, (which isn't for sale
. ) I would go for an S at least as you really can't overtake very well in the basic Cooper although the roads will be quieter in Somerset than East Sussex but just as twisty......which is where having a Mini is great.I think it's 115 bhp cooper, to 170 cooper S to 210 bhp for the JCW so there is a big gap between each of them.
This one has also come up.. Cooper S, 57k miles, seems to come with all the extras including the additional dial for the speedo, so the big central dial is used for other things. Has gone on my list of ones I should take a look at.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Looks nice. Personally, I'm not a fan of the central dials but that's just me.
Make sure the sunroof works perfectly in all modes as they cost a bomb to fix and BMW or Mini won't acknowledge they have inherent design faults.
Mine on my X3 failed between buying it and collecting it so the dealer spent £750 having it overhauled. If it had needed a new cartridge, I think they are over a grand.
That said, my wife's panoramic roof has only needed a bit of grease on the runners in 12 years.
Certainly one to go and look at, I reckon.
Make sure the sunroof works perfectly in all modes as they cost a bomb to fix and BMW or Mini won't acknowledge they have inherent design faults.
Mine on my X3 failed between buying it and collecting it so the dealer spent £750 having it overhauled. If it had needed a new cartridge, I think they are over a grand.
That said, my wife's panoramic roof has only needed a bit of grease on the runners in 12 years.
Certainly one to go and look at, I reckon.
Mine jammed open when they were buffing it up before I went to collect it.
It's the control mechanisms that are at fault, to be simplistic.
I don't think leakages are an issue but it's a huge problem and people have been trying to get BMW to acknowledge its an inbuilt fault but, as ever, they don't care.
It's the control mechanisms that are at fault, to be simplistic.
I don't think leakages are an issue but it's a huge problem and people have been trying to get BMW to acknowledge its an inbuilt fault but, as ever, they don't care.
Well thanks, it's definitly something I will test when I see it. But if it goes wrong outside of warranty I will probably just make sure the roof is sealed shut and forget about it. Still nice for the extra sunlight haha. It won't be a dealbreaker, more worried about the engine etc really.
DavidLScott said:
That was my theory.
If you have air con, the sunroof is relatively redundant for ventilation except when the car is like an oven because you've parked in the open and it has a sunroof.. . I always forget to close the liner.
Haha yeh, pretty much what I'd do!If you have air con, the sunroof is relatively redundant for ventilation except when the car is like an oven because you've parked in the open and it has a sunroof.
. . I always forget to close the liner.I just test drove a normal 1.6 cooper, and I have to say its made me question whether the extra expense of a cooper S is worth it for me... They get up to 70/80 pretty nippily, dont seem to have any problem overtaking, and the handling is exactly the same obviously (or close enough, depening on which suspension choice they have). After driving it, it's gotten a lot harder to justify, the cooper is still a lot of fun by itself!
Maybe if I lived in a country where I had an autobahn or something...
Unfortunately, finding a standard cooper but with all the extras (MFSW, cruise control, leather seats) seems to be pretty difficult - people only seem to have bothered pimping out the extras if they bought a cooper-S !!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Slightly 'off the wall' one I'm taking a look at. I first assumed that it would be a R50, as its 2006... but no, it must have been one of the first R56's. Even has a type of leather seats I haven't seen before, and has the sat-nav built in (though I'm slightly worried that a 10 year old satnav will be more annoying that useful.... I think the screen can do other things too though?)
Has the steptronic automatic, which from what I have read is actually pretty good in the R56. And super low mileage and a nice colour.
Unfortunately autotrader keeps giving me cars '15 miles away' that are actually in wales. Doesn't seem to realise there's a bloody great river/sea between me and there!
Slightly 'off the wall' one I'm taking a look at. I first assumed that it would be a R50, as its 2006... but no, it must have been one of the first R56's. Even has a type of leather seats I haven't seen before, and has the sat-nav built in (though I'm slightly worried that a 10 year old satnav will be more annoying that useful.... I think the screen can do other things too though?)
Has the steptronic automatic, which from what I have read is actually pretty good in the R56. And super low mileage and a nice colour.
Unfortunately autotrader keeps giving me cars '15 miles away' that are actually in wales. Doesn't seem to realise there's a bloody great river/sea between me and there!
I don't actually rate the full leather in the Mini.
Pretty much everyone you see for sale is rucked on the seat pad.
We specced half leather on my wife's Cooper and my JCW had it anyway but I,wouldn't have bought one with leather.
In a BMW, Audi, Merc etc you would,expect leather but the half leather works so well in the Mini I wouldn't do otherwise.
Built in sat navs have always been pretty pointless IMHO as they seem to cost a fortune to update but I rarely use one as I like maps and tend to be able to find my way around pretty well.
ETA: should have looked at your ad first. They are totally different seats to the early ones so look way way better.
Pretty much everyone you see for sale is rucked on the seat pad.
We specced half leather on my wife's Cooper and my JCW had it anyway but I,wouldn't have bought one with leather.
In a BMW, Audi, Merc etc you would,expect leather but the half leather works so well in the Mini I wouldn't do otherwise.
Built in sat navs have always been pretty pointless IMHO as they seem to cost a fortune to update but I rarely use one as I like maps and tend to be able to find my way around pretty well.
ETA: should have looked at your ad first. They are totally different seats to the early ones so look way way better.
Edited by DavidLScott on Sunday 20th September 09:00
DavidLScott said:
I don't actually rate the full leather in the Mini.
Pretty much everyone you see for sale is rucked on the seat pad.
We specced half leather on my wife's Cooper and my JCW had it anyway but I,wouldn't have bought one with leather.
In a BMW, Audi, Merc etc you would,expect leather but the half leather works so well in the Mini I wouldn't do otherwise.
Built in sat navs have always been pretty pointless IMHO as they seem to cost a fortune to update but I rarely use one as I like maps and tend to be able to find my way around pretty well.
ETA: should have looked at your ad first. They are totally different seats to the early ones so look way way better.
Yeh the seats look good, as does the mileage, and the auto box isn't a worry in the mini's from what I can see. I'd actually prefer it if this car *didn't* have the sat nav I think, but I assume I can leave the screen doing something different. I guess I shouldn't complain about having an extra thing haha. Pretty much everyone you see for sale is rucked on the seat pad.
We specced half leather on my wife's Cooper and my JCW had it anyway but I,wouldn't have bought one with leather.
In a BMW, Audi, Merc etc you would,expect leather but the half leather works so well in the Mini I wouldn't do otherwise.
Built in sat navs have always been pretty pointless IMHO as they seem to cost a fortune to update but I rarely use one as I like maps and tend to be able to find my way around pretty well.
ETA: should have looked at your ad first. They are totally different seats to the early ones so look way way better.
Edited by DavidLScott on Sunday 20th September 09:00
You will when it gets you lost as it was last reprogrammed just before they finished the M25 
I need the centre speedo as I struggle to read the digital one.
The trouble is, I'm old enough to have driven a 64 Mini in the late 70's for,a year or so so that is still easy for me to do.
I wouldn't have minded the extra steering wheel pod though but they seem quite rare.
I need the centre speedo as I struggle to read the digital one.
The trouble is, I'm old enough to have driven a 64 Mini in the late 70's for,a year or so so that is still easy for me to do.
I wouldn't have minded the extra steering wheel pod though but they seem quite rare.
DavidLScott said:
You will when it gets you lost as it was last reprogrammed just before they finished the M25
I need the centre speedo as I struggle to read the digital one.
The trouble is, I'm old enough to have driven a 64 Mini in the late 70's for,a year or so so that is still easy for me to do.
I wouldn't have minded the extra steering wheel pod though but they seem quite rare.
I've seen a couple with the 'chrono' package, so you get the extra speedo above the steering wheel. I need the centre speedo as I struggle to read the digital one.
The trouble is, I'm old enough to have driven a 64 Mini in the late 70's for,a year or so so that is still easy for me to do.
I wouldn't have minded the extra steering wheel pod though but they seem quite rare.
The sat nav still has a speedo around the edge, its only the centre that is a screen instead of... petrol and warning lights? Or whatever is normally in the centre of that gauge
I think the R53 or 1st gen is the better car with your budget. 1st two ads. The Cooper is 120hp and facelift S 170, but on the motorway driving normally both are good. You may only see 26/27 out of a 1st gen S in the real world staying with traffic with a couple of overtakes, so anything over 80 for sure. You keep saying the S will be 4/500pa dearer, but they will carry high mileages without serious engine issues normally. The later R56 shape has timing chain issues that don't always display preventative warnings, and there are a few engine configurations, some with Vanos units which are expensive and hard to diagnose correctly, often resulting on garages selling you more than you need, or repeat visits, that you pay for. The later model is a more comfortable car, and if that matters, along with a sixth gear, they are possibly the only superior attributes. If you like a car that feels sensitive and fun, that you can have a bit of a play in, and feel good, then the 1st gen does it better than any subsequent car.
The early engines are all the same bar a forged crank in the S, but most other parts are common. The Mini One with a Chilli pack and Sports seats which is a rare combination, with air conditioning, in a facelift car, would be the best for a daily actually. Crazy sounding but been there and regret selling. Admittedly I did remap it, but that is due to the One not achieving full throttle, and it's the only difference to the Cooper, so it ends up at 125hp. Then I fitted a camshaft, nothing else mind. It was brilliant, funny, and 10mph in terms of top speed compared to the S, but still slower to get there. It didn't matter, as it was fun, and mid thirties mpg, nearer 40 on a run.
The early engine is old school, and very strong with maintenance. You should be wary with a search for the lowest price. We are in a period where the values of these cars is being talked down. Just log on to any forum, and people will say they can be picked up for buttons. Yes, but sheds. The same exists at dealers, as these days, dealers do no prep to the cars and rely on crap warranties to repair faults they didn't look for. So for you as you mentioned it a couple of times, the warranty type and company is almost as important as the car. Definitely avoid a company Autoprotect offered anywhere, and the other end of the scale is WMS (Warranty Management Services) who can be more reassuring.
The sunroofs on later cars tend to stick on tilt, and they do make a repair kit, but rarely opted for as there is so much work in removing the cartridge, that fitting the kit which may not work, is a gamble most customers and garages don't wish to take or recommend, so the full cartridge can be 2.6k in parts on certain cars.
Equally the early automatic in an early car is a CVT which can be a total nightmare, they are a 'taught' transmission, which sometimes may require readapting, and sometimes a pain. The very late cars are a true auto with gears rather than pre programmed steps in a CVT type box, so my advise is increase the budget for a much later car in 'auto' or stick with manual.
The later engine in R56 also uses copious amounts of oil internally, aside from what leaks. The early one may leak in a few easy places to repair, but different. The later car also suffers, in low mileage cars, a build up of heavy condensation in the top of the cylinder head, which causes failed camshaft sensors, but more importantly, and sometimes missed when just a new sensor is chucked in, it rusts the camshaft and valve gear, and can cause significant expense.
The late engine is Peugeot, and the early Chrysler.
Some may warn you of power steering issues on the early car, but it is a simple electric hydraulic pump which you can by as an original part now from euro car parts at a fraction of BMW's prices, and it is very easy to swap. So don't worry, also they are all often a bit noisy when turning the wheel, but if really loud, take it as a warning. The symptom of failure is usually intermittent, and the steering can lock to non pas in an instant, and become heavier than a regular non pas car.
DSC on the later car can be a major cost, with modules having to be replaced at a parts cost over 1.2k, albeit some may say they can be repaired, but it's a gamble.
The early car can suffer a heavy clutch pedal, if you try one that is, walk away. Even if the garage or seller offers to fit a clutch for sale, they may have been driving it for ages like it, and damage will occur to engine thrust bearings if that happens, leading to rebuild although cars run. Like I say the engines are strong, and inherently will run longer with a problem compared to the latter.
Lots here perhaps, and sorry if it doesn't help. Ultimately buy on condition not price! Don't fret over loads of stamps in a book which means little if the person doing it hated Mini's and loved Citroens or Land Rovers, as it's worthless when no attention was paid to the car even though it may have got an oil change, it was probably the wrong oil. No Mini engine should rattle up top. Open the bonnet and listen. Also make sure any you view are started from cold for you, none of this warmed up for you crap. Put your hand on the engine. If it's quiet, light clutch, no visible leaks of significance, no water staining evident in the engine bay, no unusual smell, it's a start haha.
Moisture on the inside of the windows, possible water ingress, I've seen this on a few R56's, and boots not opening from the touch pad, which can be water related too.
No Mini should have any visible rust yet!
Look for non cheapie tyres! It reflects the interest in the rest of the vehicle in my humble opinion.
Cars with the Chrono pack, with the oil pressure and temperature in the centre, are great and my current car has it. Just those gauges are a tell tale of potential issues, and of course the water temp gauge which I don't think the later car has at all!
Only the 1st generation Cooper S may have a true LSD, go drive one, and put your foot in before an apex, they make them a different car. Superchargers shouldn't rattle, and you won't feel them come in like a turbo.........they're there all the time, no delay!
If you are remotely into the possibility of even minor tweaks later, you can get great things from the early car if chosen carefully, not listening to the majority, who these days often coax others to lower the cars, and change to silly exhausts, or intercoolers, that are not needed.
I think, reading all of what has been said, the latest early Cooper may prove a nice car. But for s
ts and giggles, with no looking back perhaps, the S might bring a fun aspect that other cars just don't have, if you get the right one?
Just my 2p after reading
The early engines are all the same bar a forged crank in the S, but most other parts are common. The Mini One with a Chilli pack and Sports seats which is a rare combination, with air conditioning, in a facelift car, would be the best for a daily actually. Crazy sounding but been there and regret selling. Admittedly I did remap it, but that is due to the One not achieving full throttle, and it's the only difference to the Cooper, so it ends up at 125hp. Then I fitted a camshaft, nothing else mind. It was brilliant, funny, and 10mph in terms of top speed compared to the S, but still slower to get there. It didn't matter, as it was fun, and mid thirties mpg, nearer 40 on a run.
The early engine is old school, and very strong with maintenance. You should be wary with a search for the lowest price. We are in a period where the values of these cars is being talked down. Just log on to any forum, and people will say they can be picked up for buttons. Yes, but sheds. The same exists at dealers, as these days, dealers do no prep to the cars and rely on crap warranties to repair faults they didn't look for. So for you as you mentioned it a couple of times, the warranty type and company is almost as important as the car. Definitely avoid a company Autoprotect offered anywhere, and the other end of the scale is WMS (Warranty Management Services) who can be more reassuring.
The sunroofs on later cars tend to stick on tilt, and they do make a repair kit, but rarely opted for as there is so much work in removing the cartridge, that fitting the kit which may not work, is a gamble most customers and garages don't wish to take or recommend, so the full cartridge can be 2.6k in parts on certain cars.
Equally the early automatic in an early car is a CVT which can be a total nightmare, they are a 'taught' transmission, which sometimes may require readapting, and sometimes a pain. The very late cars are a true auto with gears rather than pre programmed steps in a CVT type box, so my advise is increase the budget for a much later car in 'auto' or stick with manual.
The later engine in R56 also uses copious amounts of oil internally, aside from what leaks. The early one may leak in a few easy places to repair, but different. The later car also suffers, in low mileage cars, a build up of heavy condensation in the top of the cylinder head, which causes failed camshaft sensors, but more importantly, and sometimes missed when just a new sensor is chucked in, it rusts the camshaft and valve gear, and can cause significant expense.
The late engine is Peugeot, and the early Chrysler.
Some may warn you of power steering issues on the early car, but it is a simple electric hydraulic pump which you can by as an original part now from euro car parts at a fraction of BMW's prices, and it is very easy to swap. So don't worry, also they are all often a bit noisy when turning the wheel, but if really loud, take it as a warning. The symptom of failure is usually intermittent, and the steering can lock to non pas in an instant, and become heavier than a regular non pas car.
DSC on the later car can be a major cost, with modules having to be replaced at a parts cost over 1.2k, albeit some may say they can be repaired, but it's a gamble.
The early car can suffer a heavy clutch pedal, if you try one that is, walk away. Even if the garage or seller offers to fit a clutch for sale, they may have been driving it for ages like it, and damage will occur to engine thrust bearings if that happens, leading to rebuild although cars run. Like I say the engines are strong, and inherently will run longer with a problem compared to the latter.
Lots here perhaps, and sorry if it doesn't help. Ultimately buy on condition not price! Don't fret over loads of stamps in a book which means little if the person doing it hated Mini's and loved Citroens or Land Rovers, as it's worthless when no attention was paid to the car even though it may have got an oil change, it was probably the wrong oil. No Mini engine should rattle up top. Open the bonnet and listen. Also make sure any you view are started from cold for you, none of this warmed up for you crap. Put your hand on the engine. If it's quiet, light clutch, no visible leaks of significance, no water staining evident in the engine bay, no unusual smell, it's a start haha.
Moisture on the inside of the windows, possible water ingress, I've seen this on a few R56's, and boots not opening from the touch pad, which can be water related too.
No Mini should have any visible rust yet!
Look for non cheapie tyres! It reflects the interest in the rest of the vehicle in my humble opinion.
Cars with the Chrono pack, with the oil pressure and temperature in the centre, are great and my current car has it. Just those gauges are a tell tale of potential issues, and of course the water temp gauge which I don't think the later car has at all!
Only the 1st generation Cooper S may have a true LSD, go drive one, and put your foot in before an apex, they make them a different car. Superchargers shouldn't rattle, and you won't feel them come in like a turbo.........they're there all the time, no delay!
If you are remotely into the possibility of even minor tweaks later, you can get great things from the early car if chosen carefully, not listening to the majority, who these days often coax others to lower the cars, and change to silly exhausts, or intercoolers, that are not needed.
I think, reading all of what has been said, the latest early Cooper may prove a nice car. But for s
ts and giggles, with no looking back perhaps, the S might bring a fun aspect that other cars just don't have, if you get the right one?Just my 2p after reading
CarsOrBikes said:
I think the R53 or 1st gen is the better car with your budget. 1st two ads. The Cooper is 120hp and facelift S 170, but on the motorway driving normally both are good. You may only see 26/27 out of a 1st gen S in the real world staying with traffic with a couple of overtakes, so anything over 80 for sure. You keep saying the S will be 4/500pa dearer, but they will carry high mileages without serious engine issues normally. The later R56 shape has timing chain issues that don't always display preventative warnings, and there are a few engine configurations, some with Vanos units which are expensive and hard to diagnose correctly, often resulting on garages selling you more than you need, or repeat visits, that you pay for. The later model is a more comfortable car, and if that matters, along with a sixth gear, they are possibly the only superior attributes. If you like a car that feels sensitive and fun, that you can have a bit of a play in, and feel good, then the 1st gen does it better than any subsequent car.
The early engines are all the same bar a forged crank in the S, but most other parts are common. The Mini One with a Chilli pack and Sports seats which is a rare combination, with air conditioning, in a facelift car, would be the best for a daily actually. Crazy sounding but been there and regret selling. Admittedly I did remap it, but that is due to the One not achieving full throttle, and it's the only difference to the Cooper, so it ends up at 125hp. Then I fitted a camshaft, nothing else mind. It was brilliant, funny, and 10mph in terms of top speed compared to the S, but still slower to get there. It didn't matter, as it was fun, and mid thirties mpg, nearer 40 on a run.
The early engine is old school, and very strong with maintenance. You should be wary with a search for the lowest price. We are in a period where the values of these cars is being talked down. Just log on to any forum, and people will say they can be picked up for buttons. Yes, but sheds. The same exists at dealers, as these days, dealers do no prep to the cars and rely on crap warranties to repair faults they didn't look for. So for you as you mentioned it a couple of times, the warranty type and company is almost as important as the car. Definitely avoid a company Autoprotect offered anywhere, and the other end of the scale is WMS (Warranty Management Services) who can be more reassuring.
The sunroofs on later cars tend to stick on tilt, and they do make a repair kit, but rarely opted for as there is so much work in removing the cartridge, that fitting the kit which may not work, is a gamble most customers and garages don't wish to take or recommend, so the full cartridge can be 2.6k in parts on certain cars.
Equally the early automatic in an early car is a CVT which can be a total nightmare, they are a 'taught' transmission, which sometimes may require readapting, and sometimes a pain. The very late cars are a true auto with gears rather than pre programmed steps in a CVT type box, so my advise is increase the budget for a much later car in 'auto' or stick with manual.
The later engine in R56 also uses copious amounts of oil internally, aside from what leaks. The early one may leak in a few easy places to repair, but different. The later car also suffers, in low mileage cars, a build up of heavy condensation in the top of the cylinder head, which causes failed camshaft sensors, but more importantly, and sometimes missed when just a new sensor is chucked in, it rusts the camshaft and valve gear, and can cause significant expense.
The late engine is Peugeot, and the early Chrysler.
Some may warn you of power steering issues on the early car, but it is a simple electric hydraulic pump which you can by as an original part now from euro car parts at a fraction of BMW's prices, and it is very easy to swap. So don't worry, also they are all often a bit noisy when turning the wheel, but if really loud, take it as a warning. The symptom of failure is usually intermittent, and the steering can lock to non pas in an instant, and become heavier than a regular non pas car.
DSC on the later car can be a major cost, with modules having to be replaced at a parts cost over 1.2k, albeit some may say they can be repaired, but it's a gamble.
The early car can suffer a heavy clutch pedal, if you try one that is, walk away. Even if the garage or seller offers to fit a clutch for sale, they may have been driving it for ages like it, and damage will occur to engine thrust bearings if that happens, leading to rebuild although cars run. Like I say the engines are strong, and inherently will run longer with a problem compared to the latter.
Lots here perhaps, and sorry if it doesn't help. Ultimately buy on condition not price! Don't fret over loads of stamps in a book which means little if the person doing it hated Mini's and loved Citroens or Land Rovers, as it's worthless when no attention was paid to the car even though it may have got an oil change, it was probably the wrong oil. No Mini engine should rattle up top. Open the bonnet and listen. Also make sure any you view are started from cold for you, none of this warmed up for you crap. Put your hand on the engine. If it's quiet, light clutch, no visible leaks of significance, no water staining evident in the engine bay, no unusual smell, it's a start haha.
Moisture on the inside of the windows, possible water ingress, I've seen this on a few R56's, and boots not opening from the touch pad, which can be water related too.
No Mini should have any visible rust yet!
Look for non cheapie tyres! It reflects the interest in the rest of the vehicle in my humble opinion.
Cars with the Chrono pack, with the oil pressure and temperature in the centre, are great and my current car has it. Just those gauges are a tell tale of potential issues, and of course the water temp gauge which I don't think the later car has at all!
Only the 1st generation Cooper S may have a true LSD, go drive one, and put your foot in before an apex, they make them a different car. Superchargers shouldn't rattle, and you won't feel them come in like a turbo.........they're there all the time, no delay!
If you are remotely into the possibility of even minor tweaks later, you can get great things from the early car if chosen carefully, not listening to the majority, who these days often coax others to lower the cars, and change to silly exhausts, or intercoolers, that are not needed.
I think, reading all of what has been said, the latest early Cooper may prove a nice car. But for sts and giggles, with no looking back perhaps, the S might bring a fun aspect that other cars just don't have, if you get the right one?
Just my 2p after reading
Very useful post, thankyou! The early engines are all the same bar a forged crank in the S, but most other parts are common. The Mini One with a Chilli pack and Sports seats which is a rare combination, with air conditioning, in a facelift car, would be the best for a daily actually. Crazy sounding but been there and regret selling. Admittedly I did remap it, but that is due to the One not achieving full throttle, and it's the only difference to the Cooper, so it ends up at 125hp. Then I fitted a camshaft, nothing else mind. It was brilliant, funny, and 10mph in terms of top speed compared to the S, but still slower to get there. It didn't matter, as it was fun, and mid thirties mpg, nearer 40 on a run.
The early engine is old school, and very strong with maintenance. You should be wary with a search for the lowest price. We are in a period where the values of these cars is being talked down. Just log on to any forum, and people will say they can be picked up for buttons. Yes, but sheds. The same exists at dealers, as these days, dealers do no prep to the cars and rely on crap warranties to repair faults they didn't look for. So for you as you mentioned it a couple of times, the warranty type and company is almost as important as the car. Definitely avoid a company Autoprotect offered anywhere, and the other end of the scale is WMS (Warranty Management Services) who can be more reassuring.
The sunroofs on later cars tend to stick on tilt, and they do make a repair kit, but rarely opted for as there is so much work in removing the cartridge, that fitting the kit which may not work, is a gamble most customers and garages don't wish to take or recommend, so the full cartridge can be 2.6k in parts on certain cars.
Equally the early automatic in an early car is a CVT which can be a total nightmare, they are a 'taught' transmission, which sometimes may require readapting, and sometimes a pain. The very late cars are a true auto with gears rather than pre programmed steps in a CVT type box, so my advise is increase the budget for a much later car in 'auto' or stick with manual.
The later engine in R56 also uses copious amounts of oil internally, aside from what leaks. The early one may leak in a few easy places to repair, but different. The later car also suffers, in low mileage cars, a build up of heavy condensation in the top of the cylinder head, which causes failed camshaft sensors, but more importantly, and sometimes missed when just a new sensor is chucked in, it rusts the camshaft and valve gear, and can cause significant expense.
The late engine is Peugeot, and the early Chrysler.
Some may warn you of power steering issues on the early car, but it is a simple electric hydraulic pump which you can by as an original part now from euro car parts at a fraction of BMW's prices, and it is very easy to swap. So don't worry, also they are all often a bit noisy when turning the wheel, but if really loud, take it as a warning. The symptom of failure is usually intermittent, and the steering can lock to non pas in an instant, and become heavier than a regular non pas car.
DSC on the later car can be a major cost, with modules having to be replaced at a parts cost over 1.2k, albeit some may say they can be repaired, but it's a gamble.
The early car can suffer a heavy clutch pedal, if you try one that is, walk away. Even if the garage or seller offers to fit a clutch for sale, they may have been driving it for ages like it, and damage will occur to engine thrust bearings if that happens, leading to rebuild although cars run. Like I say the engines are strong, and inherently will run longer with a problem compared to the latter.
Lots here perhaps, and sorry if it doesn't help. Ultimately buy on condition not price! Don't fret over loads of stamps in a book which means little if the person doing it hated Mini's and loved Citroens or Land Rovers, as it's worthless when no attention was paid to the car even though it may have got an oil change, it was probably the wrong oil. No Mini engine should rattle up top. Open the bonnet and listen. Also make sure any you view are started from cold for you, none of this warmed up for you crap. Put your hand on the engine. If it's quiet, light clutch, no visible leaks of significance, no water staining evident in the engine bay, no unusual smell, it's a start haha.
Moisture on the inside of the windows, possible water ingress, I've seen this on a few R56's, and boots not opening from the touch pad, which can be water related too.
No Mini should have any visible rust yet!
Look for non cheapie tyres! It reflects the interest in the rest of the vehicle in my humble opinion.
Cars with the Chrono pack, with the oil pressure and temperature in the centre, are great and my current car has it. Just those gauges are a tell tale of potential issues, and of course the water temp gauge which I don't think the later car has at all!
Only the 1st generation Cooper S may have a true LSD, go drive one, and put your foot in before an apex, they make them a different car. Superchargers shouldn't rattle, and you won't feel them come in like a turbo.........they're there all the time, no delay!
If you are remotely into the possibility of even minor tweaks later, you can get great things from the early car if chosen carefully, not listening to the majority, who these days often coax others to lower the cars, and change to silly exhausts, or intercoolers, that are not needed.
I think, reading all of what has been said, the latest early Cooper may prove a nice car. But for s
ts and giggles, with no looking back perhaps, the S might bring a fun aspect that other cars just don't have, if you get the right one?Just my 2p after reading
Yeh, I started looking at R56 justa coopers mainly because I saw one in a really nice colour (nightfire red?) and it had a decent warranty. However as I've said, it was pretty much a basic model, cloth seats and no MFSW, and changing the stereo in the R56 is pretty much impossible. All not great points.
I am still considering R53's, but the reason they are approx £500 more a year is cos of insurance/tax/petrol costs all added together. Might be even more than that, all things considered.
The R50 in a 2005/2006 I think would be ideal for me, but finding one in good condition and with a bunch of decent options is becoming difficult! Generally it seems if someone went for a cooper S, they were more likely to also add the good options too.
Edit: Except that the R50 never had a 6 speed gearbox, which is a shame, though it would still be better on the motorway than an S for fuel haha
Edit: Also... doesn't that mean I could buy a mini one (for less money) and get it remapped to be essentially the same as a cooper but with a different badge? This seems... too easy?
Edited by paladin20 on Sunday 20th September 22:27
I was reluctant originally, to get one of the new Minis at all. Then my wife had a Cooper D 2011, and it pulled like a train and wasn't actually that bad. I'd always kind of hankered for an S (supercharger) but the priced remained silly (I thought). When years later I realised they were still high, it made me wonder. Especially when I remember the ad for the new R56 which made me want the first shape more, which was clearly smaller, and more Mini.
Anyway, a One came up privately about three years ago, that had minor stuff wrong with it, covered in estate agent ads. I fixed it and removed stickers. It was a rare spec with low miles. It was only a One right, but it had Sports seats, Chromeline exterior, Chilli pack, and Sports suspension too, plus the Boost radio CD. I just mapped it via Autologic which was done at my work. Not cheap actually, but gave full throttle, and 125hp (where a standard Cooper is 120). No problems with the map, you just have to make sure the latest software update is applied first which I did. I drove it like this to evaluate, and the performance was less immediate low down, but was even through the range, indeed pulling much better higher up.
Now I am someone that knows cars are built for the masses, and not especially optimised for people like me, so I put a cam in too. (can't leave anything alone haha) The manufacturers hadn't tested it on a One, but I knew the internals were the same as a Cooper, and like I said, it only affected the very low idle during parking etc, (it was the higher spec of two cams made for them) so I raised the idle. The car was only a five speed, but importantly, it was a facelift, so had a Getrag box. Being a One, it also had a longer 1st and second gear, which meant the whole package was ideal for the road, 2nd, moreso 3rd and 4th were quite good fun, and if messing with other cars with just me in it, often left other Mini Coopers in the weeds higher up the scale, simply out dragging them in 5th rolling on. Not really a quick car, but it's all relative. It was quicker than the others, and ironically more economical than standard.
That map was a generic job and still around £270, but labour free. If done by 1320 who are dearer by far, they can make it suit the car, so it would be quite interesting, and more economical again I'd bet. 5th gear (top) was pushing towards 6k at 135, and it still had legs. This is in a Mini One right, silly and funny!
The Mini One had a spare wheel too, it was ideal.
Then a Black Cooper S came in as a part exchange, and work were to sell it (just over 2 years ago) for a high price, as it only had 27k, and the extras dials as you mention (Chrono), LSD, heated front screen, auto dipping rear view, called visibility pack, Sports Plus suspension, Chromeline exterior, Chilli pack etc. All looked stunning except they fitted black 18" wheels as the originals were corroded.
I managed to convince them to let me have it, but it wasn't any cheaper (tts), but they wanted my One, as they knew I'd made it nice and they'd not have to do anything. In the end I did it. I wish I had kept it now, as I realise the spec was rare having never seen another. They sold it in a few weeks, and left the map on. The woman that bought it may have no idea her car has Cooper power haha, but that wasn't my business, I was told I had to leave it on oddly. Now, I did remove the camshaft, (and the new pas pump I'd fitted) and although untested in an S, I fitted it later, but first, I mapped it as with the other. It gave me 27mpg, improving by all of 1 over standard haha. It had the same effect as with the One, smoothing the lower rpm. Then I restored the original wheels (split rims), changed the supercharger pulley, fitted that cam, and over the last couple of years made a few changes, even undoing two, (intercooler and catback) but notably, had it mapped again as mentioned, which transformed it. Now 37mpg min, often in 40's, and 250hp (crank)
It looks standard even under the bonnet, so most wouldn't believe me perhaps, and still not cheap, but the point is, they are great little cars anyway, that can be made to suit certain requirements. People have developed things for them, Mini or John Cooper too. They brought more power to the first model than the later one as I understand, which just serves to say the first car lent itself better to tuning if it were required. Much more like the original car, one of which I have had since new, also tuned.
There are lots of people mapping, and so many owners recommending these or those etc. At work we use Autologic for all sorts, on all BMW or Mercedes, Porsche, Mini and that includes reprogramming and coding, and trusted the maps they offered, so used one. I thought it would be less cost to me, but I know why now, in that they don't write the map themselves, which is something all map service providers would be reluctant to tell you. I loaded it myself so no labour.
Ultimately, (sorry another long reply haha) you would do well with the One in a nice spec, as you say. Everything made for the other models can be applied to those too. Great isn't it? The Sports seats make a real difference, and are better in full cloth really. I have full leather in my S, but would have cloth still, as one slides off the seat ha. I never liked the half leather seats they look really dated. I really like my full leather, as it's so nice in black, just the playtime moving around that isn't ideal if pushing on, it makes the driver place too much weight on the wheel if the seat isn't able to do it's job as well.
Have a good look, I did during last week, always on the look out for another. I don't need one, but would have my previous one back. I found a couple, but isn't it odd that prices are higher than expected, when so many tell you an S can be picked up for little?
The truth is a good S won't be that cheap. I wouldn't bother with all the JCW stuff really, unless assured it was a factory conversion which removed all uncertainty over fitting quality or specification. You can make an S better anyway for less than the kit cost those owners. Badge engineering eh? Avoid all cars with lowering springs, budget mods are bad news for the next owner.
My old reg was WJ05KYT Pepper white, if you find it for sale anywhere it's already mapped haha. Air con is nice to have too. If you were close to the Wirral, I'd take you out in my 05 S, now having 40k or so, it's sorn'd now but ready to use. Then if fed up with the current choices, I'd show you my Audi A4 Avant 1.9tdi Sport 130 with a level 3 remap, or Mercedes Benz CL500 (for your budget) which I also don't use haha, the Audi would suit you. it can do 800 miles per tank and makes 'very' good progress, symphony 2 stereo.
Good luck searching
Anyway, a One came up privately about three years ago, that had minor stuff wrong with it, covered in estate agent ads. I fixed it and removed stickers. It was a rare spec with low miles. It was only a One right, but it had Sports seats, Chromeline exterior, Chilli pack, and Sports suspension too, plus the Boost radio CD. I just mapped it via Autologic which was done at my work. Not cheap actually, but gave full throttle, and 125hp (where a standard Cooper is 120). No problems with the map, you just have to make sure the latest software update is applied first which I did. I drove it like this to evaluate, and the performance was less immediate low down, but was even through the range, indeed pulling much better higher up.
Now I am someone that knows cars are built for the masses, and not especially optimised for people like me, so I put a cam in too. (can't leave anything alone haha) The manufacturers hadn't tested it on a One, but I knew the internals were the same as a Cooper, and like I said, it only affected the very low idle during parking etc, (it was the higher spec of two cams made for them) so I raised the idle. The car was only a five speed, but importantly, it was a facelift, so had a Getrag box. Being a One, it also had a longer 1st and second gear, which meant the whole package was ideal for the road, 2nd, moreso 3rd and 4th were quite good fun, and if messing with other cars with just me in it, often left other Mini Coopers in the weeds higher up the scale, simply out dragging them in 5th rolling on. Not really a quick car, but it's all relative. It was quicker than the others, and ironically more economical than standard.
That map was a generic job and still around £270, but labour free. If done by 1320 who are dearer by far, they can make it suit the car, so it would be quite interesting, and more economical again I'd bet. 5th gear (top) was pushing towards 6k at 135, and it still had legs. This is in a Mini One right, silly and funny!
The Mini One had a spare wheel too, it was ideal.
Then a Black Cooper S came in as a part exchange, and work were to sell it (just over 2 years ago) for a high price, as it only had 27k, and the extras dials as you mention (Chrono), LSD, heated front screen, auto dipping rear view, called visibility pack, Sports Plus suspension, Chromeline exterior, Chilli pack etc. All looked stunning except they fitted black 18" wheels as the originals were corroded.
I managed to convince them to let me have it, but it wasn't any cheaper (t
ts), but they wanted my One, as they knew I'd made it nice and they'd not have to do anything. In the end I did it. I wish I had kept it now, as I realise the spec was rare having never seen another. They sold it in a few weeks, and left the map on. The woman that bought it may have no idea her car has Cooper power haha, but that wasn't my business, I was told I had to leave it on oddly. Now, I did remove the camshaft, (and the new pas pump I'd fitted) and although untested in an S, I fitted it later, but first, I mapped it as with the other. It gave me 27mpg, improving by all of 1 over standard haha. It had the same effect as with the One, smoothing the lower rpm. Then I restored the original wheels (split rims), changed the supercharger pulley, fitted that cam, and over the last couple of years made a few changes, even undoing two, (intercooler and catback) but notably, had it mapped again as mentioned, which transformed it. Now 37mpg min, often in 40's, and 250hp (crank) It looks standard even under the bonnet, so most wouldn't believe me perhaps, and still not cheap, but the point is, they are great little cars anyway, that can be made to suit certain requirements. People have developed things for them, Mini or John Cooper too. They brought more power to the first model than the later one as I understand, which just serves to say the first car lent itself better to tuning if it were required. Much more like the original car, one of which I have had since new, also tuned.
There are lots of people mapping, and so many owners recommending these or those etc. At work we use Autologic for all sorts, on all BMW or Mercedes, Porsche, Mini and that includes reprogramming and coding, and trusted the maps they offered, so used one. I thought it would be less cost to me, but I know why now, in that they don't write the map themselves, which is something all map service providers would be reluctant to tell you. I loaded it myself so no labour.
Ultimately, (sorry another long reply haha) you would do well with the One in a nice spec, as you say. Everything made for the other models can be applied to those too. Great isn't it? The Sports seats make a real difference, and are better in full cloth really. I have full leather in my S, but would have cloth still, as one slides off the seat ha. I never liked the half leather seats they look really dated. I really like my full leather, as it's so nice in black, just the playtime moving around that isn't ideal if pushing on, it makes the driver place too much weight on the wheel if the seat isn't able to do it's job as well.
Have a good look, I did during last week, always on the look out for another. I don't need one, but would have my previous one back. I found a couple, but isn't it odd that prices are higher than expected, when so many tell you an S can be picked up for little?
The truth is a good S won't be that cheap. I wouldn't bother with all the JCW stuff really, unless assured it was a factory conversion which removed all uncertainty over fitting quality or specification. You can make an S better anyway for less than the kit cost those owners. Badge engineering eh? Avoid all cars with lowering springs, budget mods are bad news for the next owner.
My old reg was WJ05KYT Pepper white, if you find it for sale anywhere it's already mapped haha. Air con is nice to have too. If you were close to the Wirral, I'd take you out in my 05 S, now having 40k or so, it's sorn'd now but ready to use. Then if fed up with the current choices, I'd show you my Audi A4 Avant 1.9tdi Sport 130 with a level 3 remap, or Mercedes Benz CL500 (for your budget) which I also don't use haha, the Audi would suit you. it can do 800 miles per tank and makes 'very' good progress, symphony 2 stereo.
Good luck searching
Long posts are helpful! Thankyou!
Currently looking at a few different cars... still finding it hard to decide between a Cooper and a Cooper-S though! Might end up being decided by which car I find first in a good spec/price!
Cooper 52k, with a lot of upgrades (only missing the chrono package it seems, but does have the Harman stereo upgrade)
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Another cooper, more miles for slightly less money. Still has MFSW.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
And a cooper with no mfsw, but has the park lane seats and extras, 43k miles
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Cooper S - 52k miles and lots of maintenance, but fairly basic spec it seems. No cruise control. Blue leather seats?!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
And two more very similar Cooper s - 62k miles, again pretty basic spec. One has bluetooth, but mini bluetooth may or may not work on my phone anyway. I'll probably install my own head unit.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Unfortunately the purple cooper s with a huge spec list has already sold
probably because it was such a good deal haha. One thing that is strange to me, is that the Cooper and Cooper S's of the similar year and age are all very similar prices... obviously they might have problems that are being hidden, but I am mostly focussing on traders with warranties...
I just thought I'd post these up so if anyone has a few minutes to glance through they can let me know if one is noticably a better deal than another... the blue cooper S sounds like it's been well looked after (though I'm unsure on the colour scheme haha).
And again, thanks for the long posts, they were really informative
Edit:
Also, I think that if I do end up getting a mini (which may still change), it will have to be an R50 or R53... because most of my music and audiobooks I listen to are currently on USB sticks or on my phone, which requires a bluetooth A2DP connection. I could maybe get it to go with just a usb port, but none of the cars in my budget have this! And retrofitting is expensive.
So I think my solution is to take the stereo out of my current car, and install it in the mini. Or a different headunit... if I can get one which works with the MFSW that would be a bonus. And this is significantly harder, or nearly impoosible, to do decently in the r56 models!
(Mostly the MFSW is on my list because it means I get cruise control, but thats not a dealbreaker I guess. Would be nice though. )
Currently looking at a few different cars... still finding it hard to decide between a Cooper and a Cooper-S though! Might end up being decided by which car I find first in a good spec/price!
Cooper 52k, with a lot of upgrades (only missing the chrono package it seems, but does have the Harman stereo upgrade)
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Another cooper, more miles for slightly less money. Still has MFSW.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
And a cooper with no mfsw, but has the park lane seats and extras, 43k miles
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Cooper S - 52k miles and lots of maintenance, but fairly basic spec it seems. No cruise control. Blue leather seats?!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
And two more very similar Cooper s - 62k miles, again pretty basic spec. One has bluetooth, but mini bluetooth may or may not work on my phone anyway. I'll probably install my own head unit.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Unfortunately the purple cooper s with a huge spec list has already sold
probably because it was such a good deal haha. One thing that is strange to me, is that the Cooper and Cooper S's of the similar year and age are all very similar prices... obviously they might have problems that are being hidden, but I am mostly focussing on traders with warranties... I just thought I'd post these up so if anyone has a few minutes to glance through they can let me know if one is noticably a better deal than another... the blue cooper S sounds like it's been well looked after (though I'm unsure on the colour scheme haha).
And again, thanks for the long posts, they were really informative
Edit:
Also, I think that if I do end up getting a mini (which may still change), it will have to be an R50 or R53... because most of my music and audiobooks I listen to are currently on USB sticks or on my phone, which requires a bluetooth A2DP connection. I could maybe get it to go with just a usb port, but none of the cars in my budget have this! And retrofitting is expensive.
So I think my solution is to take the stereo out of my current car, and install it in the mini. Or a different headunit... if I can get one which works with the MFSW that would be a bonus. And this is significantly harder, or nearly impoosible, to do decently in the r56 models!
(Mostly the MFSW is on my list because it means I get cruise control, but thats not a dealbreaker I guess. Would be nice though. )
Edited by paladin20 on Monday 21st September 03:02
Edited by paladin20 on Monday 21st September 05:37
For me, the Cooper with Park Lane interior is lovely, I'd personally buy it if at the right price, which means private sellers rather than dealers haha
The aero kit equipped car I dislike, it doesn't look good and isn't remotely functional, yet expensive to repair when it gets damaged, more likely than on a non aero car which has more ground clearance, and ramp legs can damage aero side skirts.
Both the grey S look ok, one I noticed has Xenon lights, but not the visibility pack. If I had either, the first thing I'd do is renew the coolant expansion tanks, as on both cars they're almost orange or brown instead of a cream colour, which signifies they have gone hard, and 'will' split on you. Easy diy job and £60 parts.
Really, that Cooper is nice, good find.
The Checkmate is a big warning to stay away, any car that has had to have a thermostat, water pump, radiator, and heater matrix is a sign it has or had a problem that the garage couldn't trace, or so bad that all that work was required - keep clear of that in my opinion.
The aero kit equipped car I dislike, it doesn't look good and isn't remotely functional, yet expensive to repair when it gets damaged, more likely than on a non aero car which has more ground clearance, and ramp legs can damage aero side skirts.
Both the grey S look ok, one I noticed has Xenon lights, but not the visibility pack. If I had either, the first thing I'd do is renew the coolant expansion tanks, as on both cars they're almost orange or brown instead of a cream colour, which signifies they have gone hard, and 'will' split on you. Easy diy job and £60 parts.
Really, that Cooper is nice, good find.
The Checkmate is a big warning to stay away, any car that has had to have a thermostat, water pump, radiator, and heater matrix is a sign it has or had a problem that the garage couldn't trace, or so bad that all that work was required - keep clear of that in my opinion.
Edited by CarsOrBikes on Monday 21st September 11:21
paladin20 said:
Cooper 52k, with a lot of upgrades (only missing the chrono package it seems, but does have the Harman stereo upgrade)
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Looks like a nice car with a good spec.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
paladin20 said:
Another cooper, more miles for slightly less money. Still has MFSW.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Similar to my first MINI, loved the car and colour combo. No Air Con in this one though, I'd definitely chose Air Con over the sunroof, though both is nice http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
paladin20 said:
And a cooper with no mfsw, but has the park lane seats and extras, 43k miles
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Love the Park Lane. Will hold its money a little better than a regular Cooper.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
paladin20 said:
Cooper S - 52k miles and lots of maintenance, but fairly basic spec it seems. No cruise control. Blue leather seats?!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
In my opinion, the pick of the R53s. These all had an LSD as standard, and I love the exterior colour combo (although the interior leaves a little to be desired). Anthracite roof liner is standard too which is a great touch.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
paladin20 said:
So I think my solution is to take the stereo out of my current car, and install it in the mini. Or a different headunit... if I can get one which works with the MFSW that would be a bonus. And this is significantly harder, or nearly impoosible, to do decently in the r56 models!
Mikey at newministuff should be able to help you with hooking the MFSW up to an aftermarket headunit.Gassing Station | New MINIs | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff