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Rusty1
443 posts
60 months
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i went down the route of buying the ben sayers,
got a call this morning saying they are out of stock and won't get any back in till January (problem of being a lefty)
So the company are giving me Wilson Profile VF for same price and chucking in a £10 golf glove (never used one before)seems i could learn to like golf shops if they do things like that!
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mattnunn
4,222 posts
31 months
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Sexual Chocolate said: wormburner said: Seriously, the way to conquer it is to learn a swing first, be able to hit solid irons, 20 in a row without a bad-un, then pick up the long one.
Until you're really pretty good, your driver will cost you more shots than it saves you. Until that is no longer true it is as much use as your third reserve umbrella, and should be used about as often. Totally agree. Most weekend hackers tend to whack their driver and most end up on another fairway, oob or lost in the rough. I play off 1.6. I never use my driver. A 3 wood or maybe even a resuce club is pretty much all I ever use off the tee box. Whilst I agree totally I'm suprised that you can get down that low without using the driver at all! How far can your wallop your 3 wood?
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taaffy
909 posts
109 months
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mattnunn said: Sexual Chocolate said: wormburner said: Seriously, the way to conquer it is to learn a swing first, be able to hit solid irons, 20 in a row without a bad-un, then pick up the long one.
Until you're really pretty good, your driver will cost you more shots than it saves you. Until that is no longer true it is as much use as your third reserve umbrella, and should be used about as often. Totally agree. Most weekend hackers tend to whack their driver and most end up on another fairway, oob or lost in the rough. I play off 1.6. I never use my driver. A 3 wood or maybe even a resuce club is pretty much all I ever use off the tee box. Whilst I agree totally I'm suprised that you can get down that low without using the driver at all! How far can your wallop your 3 wood? Depends on what length of golf courses he plays or how long he hits a 3 wood...
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wormburner
6,427 posts
123 months
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mattnunn said: Sexual Chocolate said: wormburner said: Seriously, the way to conquer it is to learn a swing first, be able to hit solid irons, 20 in a row without a bad-un, then pick up the long one.
Until you're really pretty good, your driver will cost you more shots than it saves you. Until that is no longer true it is as much use as your third reserve umbrella, and should be used about as often. Totally agree. Most weekend hackers tend to whack their driver and most end up on another fairway, oob or lost in the rough. I play off 1.6. I never use my driver. A 3 wood or maybe even a resuce club is pretty much all I ever use off the tee box. Whilst I agree totally I'm suprised that you can get down that low without using the driver at all! How far can your wallop your 3 wood? It doesn't matter. Even a muppet like me can par any hole on any course using only irons. The issue is consistency. He only makes 1.6 mistakes per round. Whether his 3 wood goes 220 yards or 320 yards, he clearly keeps it on the short stuff, which is the key. On any given hole, being 30 yards further down the fairway guarantees nothing. I can take 4 from 80 yards out in very nearly as many different ways as I can take 4 from 110 yards out.
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wormburner
6,427 posts
123 months
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Rusty1 said: i went down the route of buying the ben sayers,
got a call this morning saying they are out of stock and won't get any back in till January (problem of being a lefty)
So the company are giving me Wilson Profile VF for same price and chucking in a £10 golf glove (never used one before)seems i could learn to like golf shops if they do things like that! What shafts...?
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Rusty1
443 posts
60 months
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wormburner said: What shafts...? Steel shafts on the irons Graphite on the driver & woods. see i listened to your comments.
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pimpin gimp
1,194 posts
70 months
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djstevec said: First thing I noticed from your videos, is that you look like you have a "strong" right hand. If you pick the club up and keep the face square to your target as you would when addressing the ball, if look at your grip, how many knuckles can you see on your right hand? A nice neutral grip will have 2 or maybe the top of the 3rd just visible, as that goes down to 1 or in extremes none, the grip is getting stronger, promoting a closed or very closed face at impact resulting in a draw/hook, unless other swing components compensate.
Posture as with previous video posters, can do with some work. You really can stick you butt out more to create a better spine angle.
Id be looking at those two things first before working on major swing surgery.
Hope that helps. The posture bit I get, will work on that. Properly no idea what you're getting at with regard to knuckles, but then I don't have a club handy to give it a go. I think it's been mentioned to me before, and I I'm honest I don't think I understood it then either!! I'll have a look at some POV photos or diagrams to see if I get it. If it helps, I think I have an open grip, is that the same thing?
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taaffy
909 posts
109 months
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wormburner said: mattnunn said: Sexual Chocolate said: wormburner said: Seriously, the way to conquer it is to learn a swing first, be able to hit solid irons, 20 in a row without a bad-un, then pick up the long one.
Until you're really pretty good, your driver will cost you more shots than it saves you. Until that is no longer true it is as much use as your third reserve umbrella, and should be used about as often. Totally agree. Most weekend hackers tend to whack their driver and most end up on another fairway, oob or lost in the rough. I play off 1.6. I never use my driver. A 3 wood or maybe even a resuce club is pretty much all I ever use off the tee box. Whilst I agree totally I'm suprised that you can get down that low without using the driver at all! How far can your wallop your 3 wood? It doesn't matter. Even a muppet like me can par any hole on any course using only irons. The issue is consistency. He only makes 1.6 mistakes per round. Whether his 3 wood goes 220 yards or 320 yards, he clearly keeps it on the short stuff, which is the key. On any given hole, being 30 yards further down the fairway guarantees nothing. I can take 4 from 80 yards out in very nearly as many different ways as I can take 4 from 110 yards out. Afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there. To play to 1.6 using only a 3 wood he must either hit it a long way or have a fantastic short game, or play on a short course. I'd doubt very much that if I gave him a selection of 10 courses that he could play to 1.6 without hitting a long 3 wood or relying on a lot of up and downs to make pars. Unlikely either that he only makes 1.6 mistakes per round even tour players make a lot of mistakes per round. Consistency yes that makes a difference but don't kid yourself that 1 or 2 handicappers don't have crap rounds and I mean really crap for them ie:15 handicap rounds. Give me an extra 30 yards down the fairway and I'd be easily back at a + handicap as I'd be hitting 8 irons into greens instead of 4 irons.. but then again I'm more consistent than someone who plays off 10 or 15. As for parring any hole on any course, I assume you are relying on a 1 putt finish to make par. Of all the Pros or really low handicap guys that I have played with there are not many who could rely only on a 3 wood from the tee on a modern 6500-7000 yard course.
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djstevec
2,113 posts
44 months
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pimpin gimp said: djstevec said: First thing I noticed from your videos, is that you look like you have a "strong" right hand. If you pick the club up and keep the face square to your target as you would when addressing the ball, if look at your grip, how many knuckles can you see on your right hand? A nice neutral grip will have 2 or maybe the top of the 3rd just visible, as that goes down to 1 or in extremes none, the grip is getting stronger, promoting a closed or very closed face at impact resulting in a draw/hook, unless other swing components compensate.
Posture as with previous video posters, can do with some work. You really can stick you butt out more to create a better spine angle.
Id be looking at those two things first before working on major swing surgery.
Hope that helps. The posture bit I get, will work on that. Properly no idea what you're getting at with regard to knuckles, but then I don't have a club handy to give it a go. I think it's been mentioned to me before, and I I'm honest I don't think I understood it then either!! I'll have a look at some POV photos or diagrams to see if I get it. If it helps, I think I have an open grip, is that the same thing? Your hands from that angle on the video, look similar to the hands on the left of the below pic. The corresponding clubhead position at impact is also shown, which will be closed, leading to draw/strong draw/hook 
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taaffy
909 posts
109 months
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djstevec said: pimpin gimp said: djstevec said: First thing I noticed from your videos, is that you look like you have a "strong" right hand. If you pick the club up and keep the face square to your target as you would when addressing the ball, if look at your grip, how many knuckles can you see on your right hand? A nice neutral grip will have 2 or maybe the top of the 3rd just visible, as that goes down to 1 or in extremes none, the grip is getting stronger, promoting a closed or very closed face at impact resulting in a draw/hook, unless other swing components compensate.
Posture as with previous video posters, can do with some work. You really can stick you butt out more to create a better spine angle.
Id be looking at those two things first before working on major swing surgery.
Hope that helps. The posture bit I get, will work on that. Properly no idea what you're getting at with regard to knuckles, but then I don't have a club handy to give it a go. I think it's been mentioned to me before, and I I'm honest I don't think I understood it then either!! I'll have a look at some POV photos or diagrams to see if I get it. If it helps, I think I have an open grip, is that the same thing? Your hands from that angle on the video, look similar to the hands on the left of the below pic. The corresponding clubhead position at impact is also shown, which will be closed, leading to draw/strong draw/hook You definitely need to get a bit more forward tilt from the hips and possibly more sideways tilt away from the hole also. The right hand does look a tad strong, ie:turned to the right but that is better than being too weak and you need a little bit of a relaxed bend in your right arm. Your head dips at the start of the backswing so you need to try to keep your height throughout the swing. You also need to retain flex in your right leg. Just get working on the body angles and the grip and that will be a good base to start from. The more consistent your address positions are the more chance you have of having a solid repeating golf swing.
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pimpin gimp
1,194 posts
70 months
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Yeah I guess I'm quite similar to that, but my left hand is more similar to the centre photo. Also my ball flight tends to be a fade more than a draw or hook.
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taaffy
909 posts
109 months
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Have a look at this http://www.getfittogolf.com/biomechanics/SwingDefi...http://voztee.com/ball_flight_paths.htmlSwing path is dictated by the line of the shoulders so wherever they are pointing at through impact is the direction in which the ball will start. where the ball finishes is determined by where the club face points in relation to the swing path at impact. If you hit a fade then it is a combination of your slightly open shoulders and an open club face to that swing path. Your hands control the club face and your shoulders the swing path. These are things that you have ultimate control over when you set up to the ball.
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pimpin gimp
1,194 posts
70 months
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Cheers, I don't often go to the range and I'm only playing twice a month a month so it'll be difficult to get anything consistently, but I'll give it a shot.
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RLK500
831 posts
122 months
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taaffy said: Afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
To play to 1.6 using only a 3 wood he must either hit it a long way or have a fantastic short game, or play on a short course. I'd doubt very much that if I gave him a selection of 10 courses that he could play to 1.6 without hitting a long 3 wood or relying on a lot of up and downs to make pars. Unlikely either that he only makes 1.6 mistakes per round even tour players make a lot of mistakes per round.
Consistency yes that makes a difference but don't kid yourself that 1 or 2 handicappers don't have crap rounds and I mean really crap for them ie:15 handicap rounds.
Give me an extra 30 yards down the fairway and I'd be easily back at a + handicap as I'd be hitting 8 irons into greens instead of 4 irons.. but then again I'm more consistent than someone who plays off 10 or 15.
As for parring any hole on any course, I assume you are relying on a 1 putt finish to make par.
Of all the Pros or really low handicap guys that I have played with there are not many who could rely only on a 3 wood from the tee on a modern 6500-7000 yard course.
Have to agree with Taaffy. I used to play with rescue clubs of the tee all the time. Had just never bothered to even try a driver. I am fairly long, but was giving up distance on every hole against my playing partners. Now when it comes to the money shot into small hard greens there's a lot of difference from taking a 5 iron to a 7 iron, unless you can hit a high, softly landing ball. I played a course last week with my driver that I played last year with only my rescues. The difference was night and day, I was hitting wedges or 9 iron into greens that last year I would have been taking mid to long irons into. IME, a modern forgiving driver is nothing to be afraid of, and setting it aside as some demon club is a bad approach for a beginner. (this game has enough mental challenges without creating more) You don't need to swing them at 100mph to get the ball out there, the head is the size of a small car so actually connecting with the ball is a lot easier than a 3 wood, if the shaft is too long, grip down it.
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Welshbeef
13,180 posts
68 months
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Well I'm playing 28 holes tomorrow.
No woods or drivers will be taken. ....
I'll also try out the practice 20 shots with a 5 iron off the deck hopefully will see most of them doing the business if not I'll report back on how many I managed to strike properly.
The other weekend playing when I spanked a three iron so so sweetly and about 95% dead straight perfect loft it felt like cheering Gareth Edwards onto an amazing try. Also my next shot after that was sweet too pressure and confidence is what it's all about id say. Frankly once you can hit the ball which takes a while to do the next bit is all in the mind focus passion etc.
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Sexual Chocolate
886 posts
14 months
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taaffy said: wormburner said: mattnunn said: Sexual Chocolate said: wormburner said: Seriously, the way to conquer it is to learn a swing first, be able to hit solid irons, 20 in a row without a bad-un, then pick up the long one.
Until you're really pretty good, your driver will cost you more shots than it saves you. Until that is no longer true it is as much use as your third reserve umbrella, and should be used about as often. Totally agree. Most weekend hackers tend to whack their driver and most end up on another fairway, oob or lost in the rough. I play off 1.6. I never use my driver. A 3 wood or maybe even a resuce club is pretty much all I ever use off the tee box. Whilst I agree totally I'm suprised that you can get down that low without using the driver at all! How far can your wallop your 3 wood? It doesn't matter. Even a muppet like me can par any hole on any course using only irons. The issue is consistency. He only makes 1.6 mistakes per round. Whether his 3 wood goes 220 yards or 320 yards, he clearly keeps it on the short stuff, which is the key. On any given hole, being 30 yards further down the fairway guarantees nothing. I can take 4 from 80 yards out in very nearly as many different ways as I can take 4 from 110 yards out. Afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there. To play to 1.6 using only a 3 wood he must either hit it a long way or have a fantastic short game, or play on a short course. I'd doubt very much that if I gave him a selection of 10 courses that he could play to 1.6 without hitting a long 3 wood or relying on a lot of up and downs to make pars. Unlikely either that he only makes 1.6 mistakes per round even tour players make a lot of mistakes per round. Consistency yes that makes a difference but don't kid yourself that 1 or 2 handicappers don't have crap rounds and I mean really crap for them ie:15 handicap rounds. Give me an extra 30 yards down the fairway and I'd be easily back at a + handicap as I'd be hitting 8 irons into greens instead of 4 irons.. but then again I'm more consistent than someone who plays off 10 or 15. As for parring any hole on any course, I assume you are relying on a 1 putt finish to make par. Of all the Pros or really low handicap guys that I have played with there are not many who could rely only on a 3 wood from the tee on a modern 6500-7000 yard course. Taffys bang on. I do struggle on courses that are very long. But I can hit a driver if I want to its just that I can land it more or less where I want with a 3 wood, all be it a bit further back, rather than take a chance of it being in the rough stuff. To give you an idea I hit my 7 iron around 170/180 nothing that special I think considering pros can hit a 7 iron 200 yards. My short game is very good. Course length is just short of 6500yrd. I approach every long hole the same way. If its a par 5 then get on in 3 and make sure you 1st put is either in or close enough. So 3 wood, 3 iron/Rescue, Short iron, putt, putt. Job done. As for making mistakes, hell yeah I make loads. Last round I played I topped it off the 1st tee. LOL. Even with a very low handicap I can still make stupid mistakes. Its just that in medals or comps I play a different game, much safer, don't do anything stupid or try anything beyond your talents.
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taaffy
909 posts
109 months
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Sexual Chocolate said: taaffy said: wormburner said: mattnunn said: Sexual Chocolate said: wormburner said: Seriously, the way to conquer it is to learn a swing first, be able to hit solid irons, 20 in a row without a bad-un, then pick up the long one.
Until you're really pretty good, your driver will cost you more shots than it saves you. Until that is no longer true it is as much use as your third reserve umbrella, and should be used about as often. Totally agree. Most weekend hackers tend to whack their driver and most end up on another fairway, oob or lost in the rough. I play off 1.6. I never use my driver. A 3 wood or maybe even a resuce club is pretty much all I ever use off the tee box. Whilst I agree totally I'm suprised that you can get down that low without using the driver at all! How far can your wallop your 3 wood? It doesn't matter. Even a muppet like me can par any hole on any course using only irons. The issue is consistency. He only makes 1.6 mistakes per round. Whether his 3 wood goes 220 yards or 320 yards, he clearly keeps it on the short stuff, which is the key. On any given hole, being 30 yards further down the fairway guarantees nothing. I can take 4 from 80 yards out in very nearly as many different ways as I can take 4 from 110 yards out. Afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there. To play to 1.6 using only a 3 wood he must either hit it a long way or have a fantastic short game, or play on a short course. I'd doubt very much that if I gave him a selection of 10 courses that he could play to 1.6 without hitting a long 3 wood or relying on a lot of up and downs to make pars. Unlikely either that he only makes 1.6 mistakes per round even tour players make a lot of mistakes per round. Consistency yes that makes a difference but don't kid yourself that 1 or 2 handicappers don't have crap rounds and I mean really crap for them ie:15 handicap rounds. Give me an extra 30 yards down the fairway and I'd be easily back at a + handicap as I'd be hitting 8 irons into greens instead of 4 irons.. but then again I'm more consistent than someone who plays off 10 or 15. As for parring any hole on any course, I assume you are relying on a 1 putt finish to make par. Of all the Pros or really low handicap guys that I have played with there are not many who could rely only on a 3 wood from the tee on a modern 6500-7000 yard course. Taffys bang on. I do struggle on courses that are very long. But I can hit a driver if I want to its just that I can land it more or less where I want with a 3 wood, all be it a bit further back, rather than take a chance of it being in the rough stuff. To give you an idea I hit my 7 iron around 170/180 nothing that special I think considering pros can hit a 7 iron 200 yards. My short game is very good. Course length is just short of 6500yrd. I approach every long hole the same way. If its a par 5 then get on in 3 and make sure you 1st put is either in or close enough. So 3 wood, 3 iron/Rescue, Short iron, putt, putt. Job done. As for making mistakes, hell yeah I make loads. Last round I played I topped it off the 1st tee. LOL. Even with a very low handicap I can still make stupid mistakes. Its just that in medals or comps I play a different game, much safer, don't do anything stupid or try anything beyond your talents. A 170 yd 7 iron is pretty long, most European tour guys will hit a 7 iron an average of about 160-180 yds. What you see on TV when it comes to yardages is pretty deceiving. Consistency and sensibility are always a good combination. I always tried to teach my students that if you can hit your clubs consistently in length and direction then you can plot where you need to be and then can stay out of trouble more easily. There is no point in smacking a driver 260 into the cabbage when you could hit a 3 wood 220 on the fairway. I've just played this morning with a good friend who is a strong 12 handicapper. He has plateaued at 12 but is very consistent playing to it virtually every game so today I told him that I would choose the shots he should play and he just followed my instruction. He did nothing different other than let me make his shot choice. If it had been a medal he would have been 7 shots under his handicap. He commented that he had never thought his choices were poor before ...eyes now opened he hopefully will get to single figures.
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DuncanM
1,835 posts
149 months
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taaffy said: A 170 yd 7 iron is pretty long, most European tour guys will hit a 7 iron an average of about 160-180 yds. What you see on TV when it comes to yardages is pretty deceiving.
Consistency and sensibility are always a good combination. I always tried to teach my students that if you can hit your clubs consistently in length and direction then you can plot where you need to be and then can stay out of trouble more easily. There is no point in smacking a driver 260 into the cabbage when you could hit a 3 wood 220 on the fairway.
I've just played this morning with a good friend who is a strong 12 handicapper. He has plateaued at 12 but is very consistent playing to it virtually every game so today I told him that I would choose the shots he should play and he just followed my instruction. He did nothing different other than let me make his shot choice. If it had been a medal he would have been 7 shots under his handicap.
He commented that he had never thought his choices were poor before ...eyes now opened he hopefully will get to single figures. That's impressive and certainly food for thought 
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taaffy
909 posts
109 months
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DuncanM said: taaffy said: A 170 yd 7 iron is pretty long, most European tour guys will hit a 7 iron an average of about 160-180 yds. What you see on TV when it comes to yardages is pretty deceiving.
Consistency and sensibility are always a good combination. I always tried to teach my students that if you can hit your clubs consistently in length and direction then you can plot where you need to be and then can stay out of trouble more easily. There is no point in smacking a driver 260 into the cabbage when you could hit a 3 wood 220 on the fairway.
I've just played this morning with a good friend who is a strong 12 handicapper. He has plateaued at 12 but is very consistent playing to it virtually every game so today I told him that I would choose the shots he should play and he just followed my instruction. He did nothing different other than let me make his shot choice. If it had been a medal he would have been 7 shots under his handicap.
He commented that he had never thought his choices were poor before ...eyes now opened he hopefully will get to single figures. That's impressive and certainly food for thought On the par 3's the choices he was making would have left him no margin for error so when he was slightly off but still hitting a solid shot it would end up in a bunker or in water. All I did there was to get him to take a club extra but to play to the safe area away from the bunkers where it was definitely safe, but if he did stray towards the flag then even a slightly poor shot would still carry over water or bunkers. He made par on all 5 par 3's. On some of the 440-460 yard par 4's I stopped him from taking the flag on with his 2nd shots as the danger of the deep bunkers usually meant he would take 6. Instead I had him hit just enough club to get close to the green but not enough to reach the bunkers (the Twenty Ten bunkers are very penal). Now being circa 10- 20 yards from the pin I had him take 7 or 8 iron and play chip and runs like long putts rather than the default wedge. This meant that he got the ball rolling very quickly and even if he did hit a slightly poor shot then the ball was still moving towards the hole rather than taking his wedge with which he would have to judge the carry and hope that either it released well towards the hole or grabbed if he hit it all the way to the hole. Both of those shots require a high percentage of consistency to play well. Basically just get the ball rolling towards the hole on the chosen line. Par 5's simple, just stay away from bunkers, water and take your 3 shots to the green. No heroic shots and just choose high percentage shots rather than potentially card wrecking liabilities.
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Sexual Chocolate
886 posts
14 months
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Good course management and sensible shot selection will always be a far more efficient way to lower you HC. Of course learning how to swing helps a bit as well. I have tried to model my swing on Ernie Els. Almost there  Would love to play that 2010 course taffy. Looks tough and very challenging.
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