Taking up Golf

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OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
  • bewitched by a £300 driver you use to fire yourself 30 degrees right on every single tee
I am having this problem at the moment, I play off about 14 and hit every other club fine.
Bring out the driver and I hit it right every time, no slice, just dead straight.
I have been playing for 25 years and never had this problem before!
Any tips welcome....

Rosscow

8,723 posts

162 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
I am having this problem at the moment, I play off about 14 and hit every other club fine.
Bring out the driver and I hit it right every time, no slice, just dead straight.
I have been playing for 25 years and never had this problem before!
Any tips welcome....
Have you got the right flex shaft?

Maybe you need a stiffer shaft, perhaps you are producing too much club head speed and the head is making contact with the ball at a jaunty angle?

roboxm3

2,414 posts

194 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
I am having this problem at the moment, I play off about 14 and hit every other club fine.
Bring out the driver and I hit it right every time, no slice, just dead straight.
I have been playing for 25 years and never had this problem before!
Any tips welcome....
Thinking about it purely from a clubface / ball impact physics point of view - a straight right shot with no movement (fade / draw) means that you're hitting the ball with a square clubface on an 'in-to-out' swing path (assuming that your feet, hips, shoulders are definitely not pointing in that direction).

Without seeing the set-up / swing it's difficult to say exactly why it's happening and what to try to fix it (not to mention that I am in no way an expert - just a keen amateur with a preference for a logical and simple answer for my simple brain) but the first things that come to mind are: -

  1. 1. Are you actually aiming where you think you are?
Perhaps put a couple of clubs down on the ground at the range and check your alignment. If you can, get someone to have a look at your hip and shoulder alignment too.

  1. 2. Is your ball position correct?
Coming back to the physics thing - if the ball is positioned a touch too far back (towards the centre) of your stance, you could essentially be hitting the ball too early in your swing i.e. before the club has had chance to square (longer club, bigger arc) to your target, thus resulting in a straight right shot.

Providing those two things are right, I can only suggest a lesson to identify what it is you're doing to cause that shot type...although as a quick fix you could always just close the clubface (strengthen your grip) and based on an in-to-out swing path, you should just hit a lower, drawing shot!?



OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Thanks Guys, My setup is the same as I have always done, all pointing in the right direction etc.
Perhaps it is the flex, I have a quick swing, so perhaps I just need to slow down a bit!
Will try next time I am out.

Sexual Chocolate

1,583 posts

143 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
I am having this problem at the moment, I play off about 14 and hit every other club fine.
Bring out the driver and I hit it right every time, no slice, just dead straight.
I have been playing for 25 years and never had this problem before!
Any tips welcome....
I had this problem for a while. In fact it made me give up using my driver. Anyway my coach said it was down to 2 reasons.

1) Trying to cream it off the tee. I don't know why I do this its a mental thing. But I awlays try to really give it some when the driver is in my hand. Any other club my swing is far more controled.

2) Out swing. Down to the speed I was swinging the driver at my downswing tended to go outside of the arc and thus caused the pull to be pushed right.

All are pretty easy to fix but all are caused by my need to give it everyting. Slow it down and I suspect you will get better results.


OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Sexual Chocolate said:
1) Trying to cream it off the tee. I don't know why I do this its a mental thing. But I awlays try to really give it some when the driver is in my hand. Any other club my swing is far more controled.
I suspect this is the cause!

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
1) Trying to cream it off the tee. I don't know why I do this its a mental thing. But I awlays try to really give it some when the driver is in my hand. Any other club my swing is far more controled.
I suspect this is the cause!
Are you 'dropping in' from the top? If you're giving it a bit too much welly and losing some coordination at the transition, it's easy to drop into a lower plane than your backswing, which might cause some alignment issues at contact.

OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
OscarIndia said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
1) Trying to cream it off the tee. I don't know why I do this its a mental thing. But I awlays try to really give it some when the driver is in my hand. Any other club my swing is far more controled.
I suspect this is the cause!
Are you 'dropping in' from the top? If you're giving it a bit too much welly and losing some coordination at the transition, it's easy to drop into a lower plane than your backswing, which might cause some alignment issues at contact.
I think it is a case of too much welly and a less stiff shaft than I am used to. Although in my mind this should input some spin on the ball as essentially it would be exadurating the in>out swing?

Sexual Chocolate

1,583 posts

143 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
I think it is a case of too much welly and a less stiff shaft than I am used to. Although in my mind this should input some spin on the ball as essentially it would be exadurating the in>out swing?
£20 says if you repeat your practice swing when your all ligned up and ready to go the ball will fly true and straight. Tell yourself you are not going to cream it 300 yards and would be happy with a nice 200 yard drive straight down the middle. This sometimes helps me slow my swing down and in the end the ball will fly 250+ and go straight.

Note ** I am not a pro just a decent cat 1 golfer but I dont' use a driver anymore so take whatever I say with a pinch of salt.

mattnunn

14,041 posts

160 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
I am having this problem at the moment, I play off about 14 and hit every other club fine.
Bring out the driver and I hit it right every time, no slice, just dead straight.
I have been playing for 25 years and never had this problem before!
Any tips welcome....
Aim left and hit it as hard as you can.

HTH!

PatrickOUFC

179 posts

152 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Playing at Caversham Heath Golf Club on Saturday, just outside Reading. Anyone ever played this track before? Any good?
Cheers

andr3w

218 posts

174 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
SpeckledJim said:
OscarIndia said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
1) Trying to cream it off the tee. I don't know why I do this its a mental thing. But I awlays try to really give it some when the driver is in my hand. Any other club my swing is far more controled.
I suspect this is the cause!
Are you 'dropping in' from the top? If you're giving it a bit too much welly and losing some coordination at the transition, it's easy to drop into a lower plane than your backswing, which might cause some alignment issues at contact.
I think it is a case of too much welly and a less stiff shaft than I am used to. Although in my mind this should input some spin on the ball as essentially it would be exadurating the in>out swing?
For pushing there's a number of reasons. You could be getting your body too far head of the ball on the way down, losing your spine angle, getting the club trapped behind and causing the push. Try not to let your left hip get ahead of your left foot. If you're quick with your hands you might try and rescue it. Do you hit violent hooks as well?

My best advice is to learn how to fade the ball and practise it. This will train a completely different feel than you have now and you'll find it very difficult to push it. You'll learn how to feel coming into the ball from the outside and the clubhead control required to impart the spin to the right.

Once you can do this you just need to find something in between that and what you were doing and it'll go straight smile

taaffy

1,120 posts

238 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Straight pushes are caused by an in to out swing path with a club face that is square to that swing path. With a driver you are told to have most of your weight on the back foot at the top of the backswing and hit up on the golf ball. If you do not transfer the weight properly in the down swing you are more likely to stay on the back foot so causing that in to out swing path.


Slightly off topic here....

90% of all amateur golfers use their body in the wrong way when swinging the golf club. Nearly all amateur golfers waste power and swing speed by using too much body rotation during the golf swing.
In essence their bodies move too fast and their arms cannot keep up hence most amateurs get the club stuck behind them and slice or hit weak golf shots that go to the right side of the fairway.

The reason that tour pros make the golf swing look so effortless is that their bodies stay quiet and their arms swing very fast around a more central core.

They are swinging their arms a lot faster and more consistently than 90% of amateurs.


This web page tells all ..... http://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/power...


I have been watching this thread for a few days and trying to think of how to help some of you guys so I've analysed my swing feeling for you.

That web page sums up how I feel when I'm hitting balls.

On the back swing I feel as if all I am keeping the lower body quiet and swinging only my arms to the top of the backswing ... the shoulders turn automatically in reaction to my arm swing.
Then on the downswing I feel as if my right hip and right shoulder stay back for as long as possible as I drop my hands to start the downswing.
From there my arms are basically freewheeling into the ball, I have no thoughts of hip turning or leg driving to add power. It all happens naturally in sync as I am not letting my lower body take over.


Edited by taaffy on Wednesday 10th October 20:00

OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
I have played of 10 in years gone by, so more than a beginner, I have a natural fade and can adjust it if needed.
It is just this driver that is going off target. I will try just swinging slower as I don't need the extra distance. I am tall and have a quick swing, that mainly equals longer than average shots, I love the feel of this club and used to hit it straight, perhaps I have become complacent with it and need to strip my swing back and rebuild slightly!

taaffy

1,120 posts

238 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
I have played of 10 in years gone by, so more than a beginner, I have a natural fade and can adjust it if needed.
It is just this driver that is going off target. I will try just swinging slower as I don't need the extra distance. I am tall and have a quick swing, that mainly equals longer than average shots, I love the feel of this club and used to hit it straight, perhaps I have become complacent with it and need to strip my swing back and rebuild slightly!
You should be swinging all clubs with the same pace.
Check your grip, set up and ball position.. go back to basics.


andr3w

218 posts

174 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
taaffy said:
On the back swing I feel as if all I am keeping the lower body quiet and swinging only my arms to the top of the backswing ... the shoulders turn automatically in reaction to my arm swing.
Then on the downswing I feel as if my right hip and right shoulder stay back for as long as possible as I drop my hands to start the downswing.
From there my arms are basically freewheeling into the ball, I have no thoughts of hip turning or leg driving to add power. It all happens naturally in sync as I am not letting my lower body take over.


Edited by taaffy on Wednesday 10th October 20:00
Nice.

I agree, I think we hear phrases like 'you must get your hips through' and we start making violent rotations on the way down and then fall out of sync with the arms and from there it's pot luck. We'll hit the odd good one and think 'great - I must have got my hips through that time!' and so on.

I find that concentrating on tempo and rhythm can create good mechanics on their own.



Skii

1,625 posts

190 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
Interesting comments on using the arms in the downswing - I have to say I've had contrasting experiences with this.

I've been struggling with my swing since taking the game back up this summer, I've not hit the course yet , just concentrated on getting a consistant swing up and running with no major swing flaws - I've found that I was trying to hit at the ball with my arms - casting the club out and no body rotation, net result I couldn't hit an iron over 130 yards!

I few weeks ago I watched this video and tried it out down the range - I was really pleased with the effect it had on my swing and distances, body turn pulling the arms through has the effect on me of 1) feeling like my body turn is propelling the shot, not just my arms and 2) retains a feeling of lag in the downswing - most crucially I was finally hitting respectable distances with my irons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgA2IAQ7UE


taaffy

1,120 posts

238 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
Skii said:
Interesting comments on using the arms in the downswing - I have to say I've had contrasting experiences with this.

I've been struggling with my swing since taking the game back up this summer, I've not hit the course yet , just concentrated on getting a consistant swing up and running with no major swing flaws - I've found that I was trying to hit at the ball with my arms - casting the club out and no body rotation, net result I couldn't hit an iron over 130 yards!

I few weeks ago I watched this video and tried it out down the range - I was really pleased with the effect it had on my swing and distances, body turn pulling the arms through has the effect on me of 1) feeling like my body turn is propelling the shot, not just my arms and 2) retains a feeling of lag in the downswing - most crucially I was finally hitting respectable distances with my irons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgA2IAQ7UE
I think the main problem with feeling that the lower body starts the swing and seeing all the static photo's and slow motion video of impact with the hips open to the target line is that it creates in the mind of the normal golfer that the hips have to turn to start the downswing.
So what do most golfers do... they get to the top of the backswing and they turn the hips believing that they start the downswing and this culminates in them leaving the arms and hands behind. This they will do with varying degrees of success. Some will hit it ok if they manage to get the arms in sync and others will constantly hit push slices or pull slices.

My comments come from experience as a golf pro teaching and continually watching and analysing all standards of golf swing.

In my above post when I described how my golf swing feels, I said that I feel that I keep my right hip and right shoulder back as I drop my hands to start the downswing and from there the hands freewheel into impact. All I am doing by having this feeling is making sure that my upper and lower body stay in sequence as I begin my downswing.
The hips should turn, just not straight away. As the arms drop the hips are making a small move towards the target but they are doing this in a closed position. This is what is happening when I say that I have the feeling of keeping my right hip and shoulder back.
When I video myself, my body is still turning and it continues to do so through impact and onto the finish.
What is actually happening though is that my arms are swinging fast and my body is turning at the correct speed to match my arms.

What I find with most amateurs is exactly the opposite where the body turns too fast and the arms cannot catch up.

Find a slow motion swing of any of the tour pros or very good amateur and you will see that from the top of the backswing that the left arm moves away from the right shoulder at the start of the downswing. In most amateurs golf swings the right shoulder and left arm will stay closer to each other and start the downswing together and that is a recipe for disaster.

In this video watch Rory's left arm to right shoulder and hips. As he begins his downswing his hips have a slight move towards the target but the right hip stays back it does not turn. As he has this slight hip move his left arm is rapidly moving away from the right shoulder and speeding up into impact. So from the start of the downswing he is literally holding his right hip and shoulder back whilst he starts moving his arms down to the ball. His right hip only really moves towards the ball when his arms are halfway down. Most amateurs will have this hip moving at the very start of the downswing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BHA8hGd-c


This Guy explains it quite well in this video..... watch from about 4:40 and you'll see him explain it in a different way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UCAglk8exI


A very good drill to get this feeling is to hit balls with a narrow stance with the right foot pulled back so that the right toe is in line with the left heel and your stance is closed to target line. This means that the right side has to stay back as the arms drop and you swing the arms properly and fully release at impact.

It's a drill that a lot of tour guys use to stop the lower body getting too active.




Edited by taaffy on Thursday 11th October 10:58

Skii

1,625 posts

190 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
taaffy said:
Skii said:
Interesting comments on using the arms in the downswing - I have to say I've had contrasting experiences with this.

I've been struggling with my swing since taking the game back up this summer, I've not hit the course yet , just concentrated on getting a consistant swing up and running with no major swing flaws - I've found that I was trying to hit at the ball with my arms - casting the club out and no body rotation, net result I couldn't hit an iron over 130 yards!

I few weeks ago I watched this video and tried it out down the range - I was really pleased with the effect it had on my swing and distances, body turn pulling the arms through has the effect on me of 1) feeling like my body turn is propelling the shot, not just my arms and 2) retains a feeling of lag in the downswing - most crucially I was finally hitting respectable distances with my irons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgA2IAQ7UE
I think the main problem with feeling that the lower body starts the swing and seeing all the static photo's and slow motion video of impact with the hips open to the target line is that it creates in the mind of the normal golfer that the hips have to turn to start the downswing.
So what do most golfers do... they get to the top of the backswing and they turn the hips believing that they start the downswing and this culminates in them leaving the arms and hands behind. This they will do with varying degrees of success. Some will hit it ok if they manage to get the arms in sync and others will constantly hit push slices or pull slices.

My comments come from experience as a golf pro teaching and continually watching and analysing all standards of golf swing.

In my above post when I described how my golf swing feels, I said that I feel that I keep my right hip and right shoulder back as I drop my hands to start the downswing and from there the hands freewheel into impact. All I am doing by having this feeling is making sure that my upper and lower body stay in sequence as I begin my downswing.
The hips should turn, just not straight away. As the arms drop the hips are making a small move towards the target but they are doing this in a closed position. This is what is happening when I say that I have the feeling of keeping my right hip and shoulder back.
When I video myself, my body is still turning and it continues to do so through impact and onto the finish.
What is actually happening though is that my arms are swinging fast and my body is turning at the correct speed to match my arms.

What I find with most amateurs is exactly the opposite where the body turns too fast and the arms cannot catch up.

Find a slow motion swing of any of the tour pros or very good amateur and you will see that from the top of the backswing that the left arm moves away from the right shoulder at the start of the downswing. In most amateurs golf swings the right shoulder and left arm will stay closer to each other and start the downswing together and that is a recipe for disaster.

In this video watch Rory's left arm to right shoulder and hips. As he begins his downswing his hips have a slight move towards the target but the right hip stays back it does not turn. As he has this slight hip move his left arm is rapidly moving away from the right shoulder and speeding up into impact. So from the start of the downswing he is literally holding his right hip and shoulder back whilst he starts moving his arms down to the ball. His right hip only really moves towards the ball when his arms are halfway down. Most amateurs will have this hip moving at the very start of the downswing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BHA8hGd-c


This Guy explains it quite well in this video..... watch from about 4:40 and you'll see him explain it in a different way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UCAglk8exI


A very good drill to get this feeling is to hit balls with a narrow stance with the right foot pulled back so that the right toe is in line with the left heel and your stance is closed to target line. This means that the right side has to stay back as the arms drop and you swing the arms properly and fully release at impact.

It's a drill that a lot of tour guys use to stop the lower body getting too active.




Edited by taaffy on Thursday 11th October 10:58
Good explanation Taaffy - I was kind of mis-interpreting your original explanation, so basically more of a subtle weight shift and dropping of the arms on path before the aggressive hip turn powers the main swing.

I all makes so much sense, its just putting it all together in a fraction of a second that I have trouble with spin

Incidentally, do you teach your pupils to keep their left arm dead straight in the backswing or do you allow a degree of flex ? (another thing I'm tinkering with!)


taaffy

1,120 posts

238 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
Skii said:
taaffy said:
Skii said:
Interesting comments on using the arms in the downswing - I have to say I've had contrasting experiences with this.

I've been struggling with my swing since taking the game back up this summer, I've not hit the course yet , just concentrated on getting a consistant swing up and running with no major swing flaws - I've found that I was trying to hit at the ball with my arms - casting the club out and no body rotation, net result I couldn't hit an iron over 130 yards!

I few weeks ago I watched this video and tried it out down the range - I was really pleased with the effect it had on my swing and distances, body turn pulling the arms through has the effect on me of 1) feeling like my body turn is propelling the shot, not just my arms and 2) retains a feeling of lag in the downswing - most crucially I was finally hitting respectable distances with my irons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgA2IAQ7UE
I think the main problem with feeling that the lower body starts the swing and seeing all the static photo's and slow motion video of impact with the hips open to the target line is that it creates in the mind of the normal golfer that the hips have to turn to start the downswing.
So what do most golfers do... they get to the top of the backswing and they turn the hips believing that they start the downswing and this culminates in them leaving the arms and hands behind. This they will do with varying degrees of success. Some will hit it ok if they manage to get the arms in sync and others will constantly hit push slices or pull slices.

My comments come from experience as a golf pro teaching and continually watching and analysing all standards of golf swing.

In my above post when I described how my golf swing feels, I said that I feel that I keep my right hip and right shoulder back as I drop my hands to start the downswing and from there the hands freewheel into impact. All I am doing by having this feeling is making sure that my upper and lower body stay in sequence as I begin my downswing.
The hips should turn, just not straight away. As the arms drop the hips are making a small move towards the target but they are doing this in a closed position. This is what is happening when I say that I have the feeling of keeping my right hip and shoulder back.
When I video myself, my body is still turning and it continues to do so through impact and onto the finish.
What is actually happening though is that my arms are swinging fast and my body is turning at the correct speed to match my arms.

What I find with most amateurs is exactly the opposite where the body turns too fast and the arms cannot catch up.

Find a slow motion swing of any of the tour pros or very good amateur and you will see that from the top of the backswing that the left arm moves away from the right shoulder at the start of the downswing. In most amateurs golf swings the right shoulder and left arm will stay closer to each other and start the downswing together and that is a recipe for disaster.

In this video watch Rory's left arm to right shoulder and hips. As he begins his downswing his hips have a slight move towards the target but the right hip stays back it does not turn. As he has this slight hip move his left arm is rapidly moving away from the right shoulder and speeding up into impact. So from the start of the downswing he is literally holding his right hip and shoulder back whilst he starts moving his arms down to the ball. His right hip only really moves towards the ball when his arms are halfway down. Most amateurs will have this hip moving at the very start of the downswing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BHA8hGd-c


This Guy explains it quite well in this video..... watch from about 4:40 and you'll see him explain it in a different way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UCAglk8exI


A very good drill to get this feeling is to hit balls with a narrow stance with the right foot pulled back so that the right toe is in line with the left heel and your stance is closed to target line. This means that the right side has to stay back as the arms drop and you swing the arms properly and fully release at impact.

It's a drill that a lot of tour guys use to stop the lower body getting too active.




Edited by taaffy on Thursday 11th October 10:58
Good explanation Taaffy - I was kind of mis-interpreting your original explanation, so basically more of a subtle weight shift and dropping of the arms on path before the aggressive hip turn powers the main swing.

I all makes so much sense, its just putting it all together in a fraction of a second that I have trouble with spin

Incidentally, do you teach your pupils to keep their left arm dead straight in the backswing or do you allow a degree of flex ? (another thing I'm tinkering with!)
I left the pro game years ago and now as an amateur for the past 12 years I enjoy the game so much more ....so no more teaching just friendly advice.

The 2nd video above explains it very well although I'd be careful of not moving the hips too aggressively towards the target or you could end up with the head moving as well. If you are moving towards the target too much then you will hit weak fades.

I would suggest doing what is said in the 2nd video as it is explained but with no conscious move towards the target, just keeping the hip back letting it happen naturally. Get set in the backswing position and then with hip back, let the arms drop away from the right shoulder then swing through to finish. Try to keep the body centred as you swing the club.

Practice ingraining this feeling by getting to top of backswing and with a deliberate thought of keeping right hip back slowly drop arms and hands down away from the right shoulder to hip level and then swing them back to the top again, always keeping the right hip back and keeping the 90 degree wrist hinge. Do this several times slowly to get the feeling then on the final swing, complete the swing. You can then make a swing with a ball trying to replicate the feeling. Repeat this routine with every ball, and try to keep the body centred and quiet as you practice it. Throughout this drill and your golf swing you must always maintain the 90 degree wrist hinge on the downswing to stop you releasing the power too early.

When you then actually make a swing trying to keep the right hip back it does not really stay back it just delays moving long enough to allow the arms to slot into the desired path from which to hit the ball. It feels weird but will look normal if videoed.

Don't try to keep the left arm straight but don't let it bend too much either....just let it flex slightly if it needs to.

Just persevere, it does work and you will hit the ball better. Practice this with a 7 or 8 iron to get the feeling before moving to the big sticks.




Edited by taaffy on Thursday 11th October 14:48