England in Dubai vs Pakistan...Cricket.
Discussion
DJRC said:
hornetrider said:
Not playing Monty is now showing to be a big mistake I'm afraid. You got to play to the conditions and to win matches you gotta take 20 wickets. In the subcontinent you ain't gonna do that on dead pitches with a bunch of seamers. We've got Trott chucking his pies on now and even he's taken a wicket ffs 
Nope it isnt. Our batsmen have let us down in this match, not the bowling. Taking Monty along would have made no difference to our first innings. As it is, the job now will be for those that failed in the first innings to drop anchor in the 2nd and see this game out till lunch on Day 5.Bowling does not win you Test matches on Days 1 and 2. Poor batting does lose you matches though. Bowling wins you matches on Days 4 and 5. This is the balance and beauty of the Test match series.
Of course picking Monty would have made no difference to our first innings, but it may well have made a difference to their first innings. We gave up a lead of 140-odd and now, under pressure, are 25-3 with KP having just got out to the most ridiculous shot for a test batsman of his experience. This is what scoreboard pressure does.
The ICC site has a predictor system:
http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/match_zone/test_predi...
Quite interesting. India are about to lose at least 6 ranking points - more if they lose in Adelaide.
Some interesting series ahead for the top 4 teams.
http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/match_zone/test_predi...
Quite interesting. India are about to lose at least 6 ranking points - more if they lose in Adelaide.
Some interesting series ahead for the top 4 teams.
hornetrider said:
DJRC said:
hornetrider said:
Not playing Monty is now showing to be a big mistake I'm afraid. You got to play to the conditions and to win matches you gotta take 20 wickets. In the subcontinent you ain't gonna do that on dead pitches with a bunch of seamers. We've got Trott chucking his pies on now and even he's taken a wicket ffs
Nope it isnt. Our batsmen have let us down in this match, not the bowling. Taking Monty along would have made no difference to our first innings. As it is, the job now will be for those that failed in the first innings to drop anchor in the 2nd and see this game out till lunch on Day 5.Bowling does not win you Test matches on Days 1 and 2. Poor batting does lose you matches though. Bowling wins you matches on Days 4 and 5. This is the balance and beauty of the Test match series.
Of course picking Monty would have made no difference to our first innings, but it may well have made a difference to their first innings. We gave up a lead of 140-odd and now, under pressure, are 25-3 with KP having just got out to the most ridiculous shot for a test batsman of his experience. This is what scoreboard pressure does.
The English bowling is irrelevent to this match, we bowled aswell as we reasonably could and their score of 330 or so was even below a par of 350 that MV gave to this pitch.
England will lose this match now because they have failed to bat and apply themselves properly.
Flexibility is the wrong answer aswell. The manual for learning how to win in the East was written by the Aussies and then it took them 10yrs to learn. They started off with notions of being flexible out and gradually realised that all that meant was negating their own strengths and playing to the oppositions. Instead you stick with your seam attack bowling mean, stingy line & length balls and let your attacking spinner go at the other end. Patience and control wins you Test series against the Subbies on their patch and you exert that by playing to your strengths, not trying different things and diluting your strengths.
That 140 run deficit was not brought about by a lack of Monty, it was by bad batting. Monty is an irrelevent side discussion. England didnt need to win this match, just draw. You dont win a test series on the first match, but you can bloody lose the thing when its on a series of lifeless pitches!
el stovey said:
johnfm said:
I'm not English.
I'm Australian and interested at how long a team can be ranked #1 if they lose a series against team #5.
Imagine losing to a team ranked 5th. That's only one below 4th. I'm Australian and interested at how long a team can be ranked #1 if they lose a series against team #5.
What will be more interesting is how many months England/SA can maintain their position in front of the real SA team - who will move above India.
DJRC said:
Nope, your dynamics are wrong. Monty would have made no difference to their first innings score
Could I have a lend of your crystal ball my dear chap, I'd like to know this weekend's lottery numbers.DJRC said:
The English bowling is irrelevent to this match.
And there was I thinking taking 20 wickets won matches, how wrong was I! As I say, we'll agree to differ.
hornetrider said:
DJRC said:
Nope, your dynamics are wrong. Monty would have made no difference to their first innings score
Could I have a lend of your crystal ball my dear chap, I'd like to know this weekend's lottery numbers.DJRC said:
The English bowling is irrelevent to this match.
And there was I thinking taking 20 wickets won matches, how wrong was I! As I say, we'll agree to differ.But I could be wrong.
johnfm said:
I think the point was that Monty is unlikely to have added much to England's batting AND that England took 10 wickets in a day or so, ie, not much doubt that ENgland could tae 20 wickets - but need enough runs on the board to get the chance.
But I could be wrong.
Well they batted for more than 4 sessions for a lead of 150. My argument is that if we had an alternative spin option, one who took 8 wickets a few days ago, we would have got them out quicker and for a much smaller lead.But I could be wrong.
Still, we'll never know will we.
hornetrider said:
And there was I thinking taking 20 wickets won matches, how wrong was I! As I say, we'll agree to differ.
Two issues here. Batting has been poor,no arguement about that and has little to do with the bowling line up debate. We can definitely lose a game through inept batting in the first innings as it is likely we will do in this match. However the whole point of a balanced bowling line up is that it allows you to take advantage of a 5 day Test and the deterioration in wickets that occur. It's my opinion for what its worth that 2 spinners would have come into play in their second innings and created pressure that the seamers can't on these tracks, particularly if you believe you have 2 quality spinners as I do. Monty coming in for Tremlett say, would make little difference to the batting in my opinion.So HR I am with you on this one. I hear what you say about playing to your strengths DJRC I happen to think in these conditions Monty is a strength that's all. Anyway as above. Agree to differ
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