The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint
Discussion
ewenm said:
Hoddo said:
My goal is a simple one, get my 5k triathlon time down.
Key session for improving 5k times in my experience:6 x 1k efforts at or just faster than target 5k pace, with 50% of the effort time as recovery between each. For example, if your target 5k time is 25 mins, that's 5 mins/km meaning the session would be 1k in 5 mins, 2:30 walk/jog recovery, repeat for 6 efforts.
Progression comes in adding a couple more reps, dropping the recovery a bit, or going a bit faster (or any combination of those). The idea being pushing your body at or above target pace for longer than race distance but with recoveries.
How frequently would you do these sessions per week?
Suppose as you develop this you start to incorporate brick sessions so your legs can acclimatise to the transition.
Hoddo said:
Wonderfully descriptive. I know just the point to which you refer when using the terms "don't like this" and "moderate discomfort", i'll be doing tempo runs before I know what's happening.
Your feet are supposed to hit the ground under your hips?!?! Sitting at my desk it is hard to visualise where my feet do land but I'd bet it is forward of my hips. Doing Parkrun tomorrow AM, will have a play and see where they find the ground.
When you describe the change in strike point as a 'move worth making', what benefits did you gain?
On the footstrike, think of it this way. If your foot is hitting the ground in front of your body, it is probably knocking your body backwards every time you hit the ground. Your feet are supposed to hit the ground under your hips?!?! Sitting at my desk it is hard to visualise where my feet do land but I'd bet it is forward of my hips. Doing Parkrun tomorrow AM, will have a play and see where they find the ground.
When you describe the change in strike point as a 'move worth making', what benefits did you gain?
OTOH, if it hit under your hips, and you're leaning forwards slightly, you're constantly falling forwards.
I used to be a big strider, throw the feet forward and land on the heel "runner". This led to shin splints and knee problems - my knee was too straight at the impact point giving me no flex.
So I worked on shortening my stride and getting my feet down, on the front half of my foot, underneath me, with a flexed knee and ankle. No more shin splints - in fact, I was able to run this way while they recovered. It did, however, murder my calves for months!
I found the best place to work on the change was a treadmill. It's a controlled environment - flat and constant speed, with some flex in the belt. It is also brilliant for telling you whether your footfall is vertical. I spent a fair amount of time putting my foot down under my hips, but with it still moving forwards at the point of impact. This (a) lost me some toenails, and (b) causes the belt and treadmill motor to complain - loudly - you'll know it when it happens, that's for sure. Now it drops straight down onto the ground, underneath my hips. I hope.
I should underline that I'm no great shakes as a runner! But I feel now like I'm making the most of the limited natural distance running talent I have, which is something.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 28th February 14:36
Hoddo said:
Extremely interesting Ewenm. Need to get a digital watch/running watch. So you're teaching your body to A) run faster, B) recover quick, C) increase endurance with the increased overall distance.
How frequently would you do these sessions per week?
Suppose as you develop this you start to incorporate brick sessions so your legs can acclimatise to the transition.
Depends how often you run a week, but probably only once a week, unless you're running more than 5 times a week. If you are then I wouldn't repeat the same session but do something different. Runners tend to do a short reps and a long reps session in a week for example, with short being anything from 200m to 800m efforts and long being 1000m+ efforts.How frequently would you do these sessions per week?
Suppose as you develop this you start to incorporate brick sessions so your legs can acclimatise to the transition.
I'm a runner not a triathlete so don't know about incorporating these into brick sessions. The interval sessions tend to be pretty intense if you get the pacing right - the aim in an ideal world is that you can do them all consistently with the last one at the target pace but can't do one more at that pace but that is very hard to judge throughout the session. Instinctively I'd think tempo runs are better suited to brick sessions.
Edit: Foot placement. My coach's advice is that the foot should be landing directly under your centre of gravity, not out in front (over-striding). He also says you should land very slightly on the mid/forefoot with only the room for a flat credit card under the heel (so not way up on your toes as if sprinting).
Edited by ewenm on Friday 28th February 14:36
I'm a bit "off" brick sessions, as I now think they are a recipe for injury. Running long/hard on tired legs doesn't (IMO) do you any favours.
However, getting used to rubber legs coming off the bike is a good idea, and for that reason I try to do a bike + short run (ie 10-15 mins) from time to time. My thinking is that the very worst of the transition is all over within the first 5 mins, so that is the key area to focus on.
Plenty of people swear by brick sessions though. I'm just not one of them.
However, getting used to rubber legs coming off the bike is a good idea, and for that reason I try to do a bike + short run (ie 10-15 mins) from time to time. My thinking is that the very worst of the transition is all over within the first 5 mins, so that is the key area to focus on.
Plenty of people swear by brick sessions though. I'm just not one of them.
Hoddo,
As the guys have said, adjusting your running technique is not something you can do overnight but it is well wort the effort. I used to be a very heavy heel striker until I attended a Chi running course run by Nick Constantine (www.soulinmotion.co.uk) and this has totally revolutionised my running. First thing to get right is your posture (your column) then lean from the ankles (NOT the waist) and your body weight will naturally pull you forwards. Keep a high cadence (90 strides per minute) and short strides which will land underneath you keeping the impact soft and your stride will flow out behind you. Take a look at the Danny Dreyer videos / books out there. I now love pulling on my trainers whereas before it used to be a chore. It does take a while to stick (I've been working on the technique for over a year now!) but it has dramatically improved my running both in terms of time/distance and reduced injuries. There are some videos of me before / after on my blog (www.drgironman.blogspot.com) around November 2012 and February 2013 if you are interested!
As the guys have said, adjusting your running technique is not something you can do overnight but it is well wort the effort. I used to be a very heavy heel striker until I attended a Chi running course run by Nick Constantine (www.soulinmotion.co.uk) and this has totally revolutionised my running. First thing to get right is your posture (your column) then lean from the ankles (NOT the waist) and your body weight will naturally pull you forwards. Keep a high cadence (90 strides per minute) and short strides which will land underneath you keeping the impact soft and your stride will flow out behind you. Take a look at the Danny Dreyer videos / books out there. I now love pulling on my trainers whereas before it used to be a chore. It does take a while to stick (I've been working on the technique for over a year now!) but it has dramatically improved my running both in terms of time/distance and reduced injuries. There are some videos of me before / after on my blog (www.drgironman.blogspot.com) around November 2012 and February 2013 if you are interested!
Did the Dambuster Duathlong today. Just missed my 2:30 target by a minute sadly. I did get a 10k personal best at the start though (42min) which makes up for it.
Had a few disasters though. Forgot my biking gloves, and it was cold, so bought some at the start. I then went and left one of them in T1, so did the bike with 1 glove on. Also, when I went for my first drink on the bike the entire top fell off my bottle, so I had to drink from a bottle without a lid for 25miles.
Otherwise it was a really enjoyable day. No medal though, I like a nice medal....
Had a few disasters though. Forgot my biking gloves, and it was cold, so bought some at the start. I then went and left one of them in T1, so did the bike with 1 glove on. Also, when I went for my first drink on the bike the entire top fell off my bottle, so I had to drink from a bottle without a lid for 25miles.
Otherwise it was a really enjoyable day. No medal though, I like a nice medal....
Well done Sarkmeister, good time. It was flipping cold this morning, I was in bib shorts & short sleeved cycle top - took till about 4k to warm up on the first run but was ok after that. I had set myself an ambitious (by my standards !) sub 2.45. I haven't seen the official results yet but I stopped my watch at 2.41.20 so am absolutely delighted with that. Mike - did you make it & how did you do ?
Greg66 said:
The plan is to get myself able to start what's known on Slowtwitch as the BarryP plan
So, at the risk of bringing on an injury, an interim report on the BarryP plan and its progress. Now into week 7 and it seems to be working. I'm up to 15/30/15/30/15/50 this week. The 15s are all about concentrating on what I'm doing, the 30s I dread because I have to work hard, and the 50 is a pleasant trudge.
It is really noticeable how much easier running becomes if you run every day. Your body really is very clever at adapting - the key is not to overload it. It also becomes a bit easier to focus on footfall position, hip position, elbows in - all those little things that it is easy to get wrong - when you're sufficiently familiar with the activity that you're straight into it in the first 20 metres.
So far I'm not timing myself or pacesetting. I'm still just building. However, I have noticed that I'm able to hold what feels like a good speed for longer, and holding my form is becoming easier during the two 2 unit runs. I'm also enjoying a bit of unexpected leg strength cycling benefit - I went out for my first outdoor ride on Sunday and (through a combination of over ambition and getting lost) managed 83 miles. Legs felt a bit ropey around the 2h45 to 3h30 mark, but then came back to life, and in the last five miles I managed to put down some quite fast sprints through the traffic.
Now, that just leaves the pesky matter of the pool.
baxb said:
Well done Sarkmeister, good time. It was flipping cold this morning, I was in bib shorts & short sleeved cycle top - took till about 4k to warm up on the first run but was ok after that. I had set myself an ambitious (by my standards !) sub 2.45. I haven't seen the official results yet but I stopped my watch at 2.41.20 so am absolutely delighted with that. Mike - did you make it & how did you do ?
Excellent work Sir! madbadger said:
Did my first ever run directly coming off the bike yesterday. I now know why it is worth training out the wobbly legs. 
I think my run times dropped to about where I was a year ago.
If you can match your bike cadence (90 rpm) to your run cadence you'll find it does get easier. I got crazy wobbly legs the first time I attempted it - must have looked hilarious for the folks watching I think my run times dropped to about where I was a year ago.
drgav2005 said:
baxb said:
Well done Sarkmeister, good time. It was flipping cold this morning, I was in bib shorts & short sleeved cycle top - took till about 4k to warm up on the first run but was ok after that. I had set myself an ambitious (by my standards !) sub 2.45. I haven't seen the official results yet but I stopped my watch at 2.41.20 so am absolutely delighted with that. Mike - did you make it & how did you do ?
Excellent work Sir! 
Had another session with my swim coach. First thing we do is a 400m TT. Knocked 35 seconds off since Christmas. Now at 6:34. That is touch turning as well.
Next target is a 6:20.
Really feel now like I have a good feel for the water and I can tell if form goes off and can adjust without anyone telling me.
Shame my cycling and running haven't been so good. Going to try and lose some weight by swimming and lifting weights then get back into those and hopefully not get injured.
Next target is a 6:20.
Really feel now like I have a good feel for the water and I can tell if form goes off and can adjust without anyone telling me.
Shame my cycling and running haven't been so good. Going to try and lose some weight by swimming and lifting weights then get back into those and hopefully not get injured.
944fan said:
Had another session with my swim coach. First thing we do is a 400m TT. Knocked 35 seconds off since Christmas. Now at 6:34. That is touch turning as well.
Next target is a 6:20.
Really feel now like I have a good feel for the water and I can tell if form goes off and can adjust without anyone telling me.
Shame my cycling and running haven't been so good. Going to try and lose some weight by swimming and lifting weights then get back into those and hopefully not get injured.
Some nice swimming there! I'm nowhere close to that - I'd be delighted if I could break 7:30!!Next target is a 6:20.
Really feel now like I have a good feel for the water and I can tell if form goes off and can adjust without anyone telling me.
Shame my cycling and running haven't been so good. Going to try and lose some weight by swimming and lifting weights then get back into those and hopefully not get injured.
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