The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

[anonymous-user]

Good racing, chaps - just remember: every race is a lesson!

[Sarkmeister]

Well done everyone who completed an event over the weekend, weather was perfect for it.

I completed the Dambuster (olympic distance) at Rutland Water on Saturday morning (see my post last week).

Managed to get a new PB of 2:48, but missed my original 2:40 target. I'm still a rubbish swimmer, but was happy with 34 mins, then the bike went very well and I finished in around 1:18. Started the run very well, aiming for around 43mins, then my stomach started feeling very dodgy. Ended having to walk every so often, and finished in 47mins. Very disappointed as if I'd done 43/44mins on the run I would have caught my mate on the final km, setting up an interesting sprint finish. It was the qualifiers for the 2015 euro and world champs, so some incredibly quick times by the winners.

My lesson is not to eat so much the night before the event....

Overall really enjoyed it though, bring on the Cotswold Classic Half Ironman in August.

[Ben Jk]

Well not long until IMUK now and I'm 100% ready.......









to be a volunteer!

I spectated last year and it was the most inspirational thing I've ever seen.


But you are all fking nuts.


Good luck for the last section of training....

[esuuv]

So who is doing IMUK then?

Do we need a special PH handshake?

[croftsj]

Just catching up on some of the comments from Windsor.

I raced Windsor last year and swore never again, compulsory Saturday racking, £100 entry, swim course walking, drafting and some of the rudest, jobs worth marshals I've come across.

Re the Thames and sickness, I swam the Jubilee River 10 km a few weeks ago and had the Bombay mix for 10 days afterwards.

[Rich_W]

croftsj said:

Just catching up on some of the comments from Windsor.

I raced Windsor last year and swore never again, compulsory Saturday racking, £100 entry, swim course walking, drafting and some of the rudest, jobs worth marshals I've come across.

Re the Thames and sickness, I swam the Jubilee River 10 km a few weeks ago and had the Bombay mix for 10 days afterwards.

I know what you mean about racking and the marshalls. Every Saturday I have to drive over to get there for late afternoon. So endure the M25 at lunchtime. Then of course the car park is miles from the registration. So you either leave the bike in the car and walk up, back, ride up, walk back. Or you ride the bike up and walk back.

Great, except for EVERY 3 years previously. I need to find somewhere to lock the bike up. And every time a volunteer whinges at me, for locking it to a guard rail/fence somewhere. They tell you to just put it on the rack outside the tent. Since I quite like my bike and its worth a reasonable amount and living in South London where things are stolen on a regular basis. It's always been my opinion to secure my stuff. But this year I relented and did as asked. Registered, came out stuck the stickers on. Found out couple days later a bike was stolen from that rack, and of course no recourse since it's not a secure Transition area. The "marshalls" at each end weren't even doing rudimentary checks! There but by the grace of...

And into Transition, only to be then told that I was not in the right place despite being next to 2 other bikes in the same wave. Who when I tried to engage in friendly conversation, ignored me and wandered off to have a go at someone else

Thus far, never had problems after swimming in the Thames though. Like I said earlier, blocked sinus overnight afterwards. But a Sudafed (which I recommend!) provided enough relief. Some people seem more susceptible to this sort of thing. In the same way if I get my nutrition wrong I get real GI issues! When others can eat anything and go all day without needing to "go to pauls"

I've registered for next year already Probably my last tbh.

[Magic919]

You can ask to rack earlier at Windsor. Helps a bit if you have any plans for Saturday.

River walking is annoying and I presume the organiser doesn't care. Ditto the "drafting" though I prefer to call it slipstreaming. I suppose we'll all speak 100% American English in due course.

[Rich_W]

In the post race questionnaire. I suggested they dq anyone walking in the swim. (Probably not going to happen though)

Other thing I've just remembered is, between racking and walking to the swim start I managed to step in the worlds biggest dog st, both feet. Didn't spot it at first! Ordinarily I wear cheap flip flops but this year had some adidas casuals on. They went in the bin, it was fking everywhere! I know people like dogs. I like Dogs. But when there's going to be people walking around potentially barefoot. It's just scummy not to pick up after your animal!

[croftsj]

It's not just the walking in the river, it's also the fact it's so shallow across on the far bank your hands are constantly in the mud as well, why does the course need to cross to the far bank?

Anyway, it's not a race I'll do again and in fact this year it was a week too early for my training plan for IM Wales so I did South Cerney instead.

[Rich_W]

That's because the current is weakest on the edges of the river there. They only "suggest" you go over there, nothing to stop you smashing up the centre (apart from fatigue)

Personally, the first year I hit the bottom a lot with my hands. But the last 2 I have swum slightly further out from the bank and had a better swim as a result.

[drgav2005]

Only 1 more month until The Outlaw and I'm getting excited. Couple of our club have just completed IM events today (Nice and Coeur D'Alene) and an even more mental triathlon, The Celtman, yesterday. 3.8km Loch Shieldaig swim, followed by 202km on the bike (because 180km just isn't far enough) and then a 42km run over 2 munros. Nuts!

Two more weeks of peak training and then 2 weeks of taper.

Hope everyone is having a great season to date and that your training is going well.

http://drgironman.blogspot.co.uk

[944fan]

A couple of questions for you long distancers.

I have an IM plan together, formed from the Joe Friel book plus the swim plan from the coach I have for swimming.

Been upping the time on the bike and the long runs, upto 3 hours/50 miles on the bike now and 90 mins/8 miles run. Have started paying attention to my HR to keep in Z2 and something I have noticed is for the first half of a long session it is easy to stay in zone, but the second half it creeps up into Z3 even though the effort doesn't feel any harder. Anyone else have this problem, I am guessing it is just cardiac drift?

Also how much carb should I be taking in on the ride/run? I usual have something to eat before I go, a couple of gels and a cereal bar on the bike and a recovery drink straight after. Is that enough? Should I use a glucose drink as well? Currently just take water and zero electrolyte drink. Think I need to get some bigger bottles as well as running out of fluid on hot days.

My Planet X Stealth has arrived, desperate to get out on it but the pedals are coming desperately and haven't arrived yet.

[anonymous-user]

944fan said:

A couple of questions for you long distancers.

I have an IM plan together, formed from the Joe Friel book plus the swim plan from the coach I have for swimming.

Been upping the time on the bike and the long runs, upto 3 hours/50 miles on the bike now and 90 mins/8 miles run. Have started paying attention to my HR to keep in Z2 and something I have noticed is for the first half of a long session it is easy to stay in zone, but the second half it creeps up into Z3 even though the effort doesn't feel any harder. Anyone else have this problem, I am guessing it is just cardiac drift?

Also how much carb should I be taking in on the ride/run? I usual have something to eat before I go, a couple of gels and a cereal bar on the bike and a recovery drink straight after. Is that enough? Should I use a glucose drink as well? Currently just take water and zero electrolyte drink. Think I need to get some bigger bottles as well as running out of fluid on hot days.

My Planet X Stealth has arrived, desperate to get out on it but the pedals are coming desperately and haven't arrived yet.

Sounds exactly like cardiac drift. Used to get it very obviously in my 30s. Don't seem to now; despite running neg splits. No idea why.

For biking, for me: up to 60 miles I can manage on water. 60-80 I will use a carb/electrolyte drink (600ml) and a bar. Eat small amounts (a mouthful) early and often (every 20/25 mins) until it's gone. Up to and over 100 miles: two plus bottles and two bars. Eat early to stay fuelled late in the ride. For IM, 3 or 4 bottles and three bars, because you're fuelling for the second half of the bike and the run. Eat on schedule whether you feel hungry or not, but keep it little and often.

For running, for me, rarely eat food. When I'm just running, no food; in a race I will graze some fruit from aid stations. Drink is generally water, but if it is hot, electrolyte drink too. Ice cubes are awesome - once my core overheats it all goes tits up.

For long sessions - 3 hours and up - it's very important to eat something once you're done, fairly soon after you finish. During IM training the kitchen would take a real pasting after the long bike and long run sessions...

[whatleytom]

esuuv said:

So who is doing IMUK then?

Do we need a special PH handshake?

I'm doing it again this year. Training has been going fairly well up until this week. Busy week at work, then a wedding at the weekend has meant I've done a 50 minute run and a 45 min bike ride all week. Not good considering this should be my biggest week of the year! Will have to give it to myself this week as my peak then begin a taper of sorts!

[drgav2005]

944fan said:

A couple of questions for you long distancers.

I have an IM plan together, formed from the Joe Friel book plus the swim plan from the coach I have for swimming.

Been upping the time on the bike and the long runs, upto 3 hours/50 miles on the bike now and 90 mins/8 miles run. Have started paying attention to my HR to keep in Z2 and something I have noticed is for the first half of a long session it is easy to stay in zone, but the second half it creeps up into Z3 even though the effort doesn't feel any harder. Anyone else have this problem, I am guessing it is just cardiac drift?

Also how much carb should I be taking in on the ride/run? I usual have something to eat before I go, a couple of gels and a cereal bar on the bike and a recovery drink straight after. Is that enough? Should I use a glucose drink as well? Currently just take water and zero electrolyte drink. Think I need to get some bigger bottles as well as running out of fluid on hot days.

My Planet X Stealth has arrived, desperate to get out on it but the pedals are coming desperately and haven't arrived yet.

As Greg has said, it's most likely cardiac drift. Your body will eventually get tired and your CV system has to work a little harder to keep you going at the same pace. Loads of easy z1 / low Z2 training in the base training stage will help to minimise this drift.

A good article on the 4th discipline (nutrition) on the Ironman website: http://eu.ironman.com/triathlon/news/articles/2014...

For longer rides (and weather dependent) you could consume up to 750ml (or even 1 litre in hot conditions) of fluid per hour. This makes IM distance training tricky if you're out for 5 or 6 hours on the bike... where to store all those bottles?!?!
I've been using the High5 energy source and gels for the bike and the run in training as this is what they'll be handing out at The Outlaw - that way if any of my bottles jettison on the bike I'm not using a food I haven't trained with.

Your body can only digest approx. 60g of glucose per hour, this is why many drinks manufacturers are swapping to a 2:1 glucose:fructose mix which is supposed to be more easily digested and allow you to get up to 90g per hour. Typical values to target are your body weight (in kilos) to carbs (in grams)... I'm 85kg, so I'm looking for 85-90g per hour. High5 have an IM nutrition plan here: http://highfive.co.uk/high5-faster-and-further/tri...

Greg is obviously a machine I'd be dying off if I consumed so little during my big bikes / runs (and I have in a couple of training rides this year!). For my 6 hour ride on Sat I had 3x 750ml bottles and 6 gels and I was on the edge of running out of energy. For my long run yesterday I set up a mini feed station at my front door and drank ~300ml on the hour and then consumed a gel at 20 and 40 minutes, this worked pretty well and I had no cramping issues that blighted my run at IM Austria last year.

Enjoy your new bike when it comes!

Edited by drgav2005 on Saturday 5th July 09:24

[baxb]

Good stuff Gavin, had a mate do IM Austria at the weekend (same mate I did it with last year, was with me when we met picking up bikes Gavin). Undertrained & suffering with the usual calf problems you get after turning 40 so hadn't done anywhere near the volume of run training req'd, but made one small error in prep which was forgetting to bring a water bottle to put on the bike to get you to 1st aid station 20k in. This meant that he was roughly 2 hours into the race before taking on any fluids & you just cannot catch up on that.

So he ended up keeling over 8k into the run with dizziness, pins & needles etc. But there is very little that can't be solved in an IM by a bit of a rest & sit down, so after a while he got up & carried on, taking on as much fluid & eating as much watermelon as possible to drag himself round to the finish. That was IM #8 for him yet still made a schoolboy error.

[madbadger]

One week to go to my first tri.

Getting quite excited now.

Will remember my water bottle.

[Rich_W]

madbadger said:

One week to go to my first tri.

Getting quite excited now.

Will remember my water bottle.

We expect a post race report

[944fan]

Thanks greg and drgav for the tips. I seem to sweat a fair bit even when I am taking it easy so need a lot of fluid. I have bought some bigger 800ml bottles and also a dual chamber aero bottle which holds 1 lt in one chamber and half a litre in the other. Think you can dump a load of packets of gel mixed with water in the small one and feed without coming out of aero.

So with the cardiac drift do I ignore it for now, or try and keep my HR lower earlier on so when it does drift it stays in zone 2?

Has anyone used the Joel Friel book? I am a little confused about how you set out the weekly sessions. It says that the volume and intensity are down to the individual and should be set by yourself. It doesn't really give any idea on how to judge that. Just plenty of warnings that if you over do it you will get injured, ill,and burnout.

Currently I am upto 3hour/50 mile rides and 1hr 45 / 9 mile runs. Do I just add say 10% on both each week during base phases?

[lost in espace]

Anyone else entered the Jensen Button tri at Luton Hoo? There is swim training on Friday!