The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint
Discussion
graeme4130 said:
Have you considered the Challenge events (ironman distance, but not branded Ironman)? Challenge Roth in Germany is the fastest IM distance race, so relatively is going to be an easier option. Roth actually used to be the Ironman European champs, but the organisers fell out with the WTC and it became 'Challenge' instead of Ironman
Alternatively, IM Austria is probably the fastest IM branded race in Europe and probably the world. IM Switzerland is a nice race and the bike course is stunning, although the amount of drafting on the course was terrible and personally, it annoyed the crap out of me
If you want a nice UK race, then the Outlaw in Nottingham is well organised and has a massive following.
IMUK has the nice IM stigma and feel to it, but it's a crappy split where your T1 is miles from T2 and again from the finish line. Your loved ones can't park close to the shopping centre finish which means you're crossing the line and walking someway to a car. You've then got to drive to get your bike from T2 and then again to get your swim stuff from T1. After you've just raced 140.6 miles, that hassle is the last thing you'll want.
FWIW, when IMUK was in Sherborne pre 2009, it was a lovely race.
Whichever one you choose, you'll love it I'm sure
Good luck Baxb - hope the training goes well Alternatively, IM Austria is probably the fastest IM branded race in Europe and probably the world. IM Switzerland is a nice race and the bike course is stunning, although the amount of drafting on the course was terrible and personally, it annoyed the crap out of me
If you want a nice UK race, then the Outlaw in Nottingham is well organised and has a massive following.
IMUK has the nice IM stigma and feel to it, but it's a crappy split where your T1 is miles from T2 and again from the finish line. Your loved ones can't park close to the shopping centre finish which means you're crossing the line and walking someway to a car. You've then got to drive to get your bike from T2 and then again to get your swim stuff from T1. After you've just raced 140.6 miles, that hassle is the last thing you'll want.
FWIW, when IMUK was in Sherborne pre 2009, it was a lovely race.
Whichever one you choose, you'll love it I'm sure
Thanks for the info Graeme,
My wife had signed up to do the Outlaw this year but illness stopped her training for a few months so we've decided to do an IM event together for 2013. IM Austria is filled signed up already for 2013, so one option is IM Switzerland - next year's event is a day before our anniversary which could be amusing
Part of me would still like to do IM Lake Placid but most folk we've spoken to say the bike leg is pretty tough… I did about 30k of the bike course on a Computrainer last night and if it's accurate, then I can see why it would be 'challenging'!!! A few of the climbs hit 15% which was fun… Still, a year to build up the strength in my legs again (after surgery on both knees last year)… No doubt in a couple of weeks we'll have signed up for one of them and the training will really begin! 
I don't think there's any fun in jumping straight into an Ironman. I know i'll do one, but for me it's nice to start at a sprint and build to olympic, then a 70.3 and then finally a full distance Ironman. Feels like more of a journey to me?
And surely you'd want all that experience behind you so that you can actually put in a respectable performance instead of keep resting on the bike and then walking loads on the marathon leg just to get it finished?
And surely you'd want all that experience behind you so that you can actually put in a respectable performance instead of keep resting on the bike and then walking loads on the marathon leg just to get it finished?
I am hoping to do an IM in 2014 (DangerousB you kindly offered earlier in the thread to discuss training with me, I shall take you up on that!) as I think that gives me plenty of time to get ready for the event. I have a sprint this weekend, Chichester, and a couple of adventure races in September/October.
A question though. Bearing in mind I want to do an IM in 2014, will I mess up the training if I go for a couple of Olympic distance events in 2013? I read in a magazine that you should jsut focus on the IM training and not look at other events for example marathons, 70.3s etc but I would be interested to get some feedback from people here.
A question though. Bearing in mind I want to do an IM in 2014, will I mess up the training if I go for a couple of Olympic distance events in 2013? I read in a magazine that you should jsut focus on the IM training and not look at other events for example marathons, 70.3s etc but I would be interested to get some feedback from people here.
IM is different, in that it is a more pure endurance event, so you prioritise comfort over speed in your kit, bike setup and approach to transitions, and you prioritise base work over speed/power work in your training, but it's important to bear in mind that all this is relative - your base work may see you travelling faster than my speed work, and your IM bike position may be more aggressive than my 10 mile TT bike position.
Personally, I enjoyed the challenge of making my first tri an IM - with my first marathon at the end of it.
At a really simplistic level I have two work rates: 'flat out' and 'go forever' so anything that requires a pace somewhere in between is harder to get to grips with: the aim of my IM training is to raise the speed at which I can cover the ground at my 'go forever' work rate.
Personally, I enjoyed the challenge of making my first tri an IM - with my first marathon at the end of it.
At a really simplistic level I have two work rates: 'flat out' and 'go forever' so anything that requires a pace somewhere in between is harder to get to grips with: the aim of my IM training is to raise the speed at which I can cover the ground at my 'go forever' work rate.
mat205125 said:
For a beginer aiming to try their first Sprint distance event (at an ability level where this distance will be more "endurance" than "sprint"), what are the different standard triathlon distances that get bounced around?
Obviously it's Swim, Bike, Run, in that order;Super Sprint
400m / 20k / 5k (sometimes a super sprint can be less, i.e 10k cycle and 2.5k run)
Sprint
750m / 20k / 5k
Olympic
1500m / 40k / 10k
Half Distance
1900m / 90k / 21.1k
Full Distance (Ironman)
3860m / 180k / 42.2k
Iceman82 said:
I am hoping to do an IM in 2014 (DangerousB you kindly offered earlier in the thread to discuss training with me, I shall take you up on that!) as I think that gives me plenty of time to get ready for the event. I have a sprint this weekend, Chichester, and a couple of adventure races in September/October.
A question though. Bearing in mind I want to do an IM in 2014, will I mess up the training if I go for a couple of Olympic distance events in 2013? I read in a magazine that you should jsut focus on the IM training and not look at other events for example marathons, 70.3s etc but I would be interested to get some feedback from people here.
No worries mate, just drop me a line when you're ready to go - you're more than welcome to take me up on the offer!A question though. Bearing in mind I want to do an IM in 2014, will I mess up the training if I go for a couple of Olympic distance events in 2013? I read in a magazine that you should jsut focus on the IM training and not look at other events for example marathons, 70.3s etc but I would be interested to get some feedback from people here.
With regards the training, you'll do yourself no harm at all training for a couple of Oly's this year . . . in fact you'll do yourself a whole heap of good if you do it properly, as you'll have a bit of power to carry over to your IM base.
Once you're training for an Ironman though, I certainly wouldn't enter any Olympic's (or shorter) as they're raced in a completely different manner physically (and mentally really). Whilst you'll race an Oly pretty much constantly anaerobic (approx 85% fuelled by glycogen), you certainly won't do that at an IM (where approx 50% of your effort will have to be fuelled by glycogen).
It is simply impossible to replace glycogen in your muscles at the same rate that you use it and at shorter events, that doesn't really matter as you'll only be going for a couple of hours or so. At IM distance it's a different story. You may have to be out there for 17 hours, but you've only got a couple of hours worth of onboard (accessible) glycogen and one "pack of matches" to burn.
You'll have to feed yourself all day (in order for it to be possible to finish) and every time you go anaerobic, you'll burn a match. How many matches you've got depends on your anaerobic threshold, but basically you want to be doing it as little as possible, especially if it's your first one!!!
In short though . . . sprint or Oly races you can go flat stick from the gun, period. I found my IM to be a lot more cerebral. Get your fuelling/output strategy wrong and at best it'll ruin your day. At worst you'll have no say in whether you see the finish - regardless of how mentally tough and determined you are.
Iceman82 said:
First sprint done in 1 hour 54. Pleased with that but disappointed with the bike leg, took me 1 hour 19 due to lack of practice and a pretty serious hill! However, my 5k run was knocked off in 23mins 02secs so pleased with that element of it!
Congrats on completing your first one! But that's a massive gulf time wise between biking and running legs!? The bike time suggests an unfit person, but the run time is actually quick for a sprint tri, considering the two disciplines before! So you must have the fitness there! Time to get out on the bike 2-3 times a week and sign up for another one and beat your time! 
I normally do my run leg of a sprint in 22-23 mins like you, but my bike time is always around 38-39 mins to give you an idea!
nick s said:
Congrats on completing your first one! But that's a massive gulf time wise between biking and running legs!? The bike time suggests an unfit person, but the run time is actually quick for a sprint tri, considering the two disciplines before! So you must have the fitness there! Time to get out on the bike 2-3 times a week and sign up for another one and beat your time!
I normally do my run leg of a sprint in 22-23 mins like you, but my bike time is always around 38-39 mins to give you an idea!
That's useful to know, thanks Nick. It was a 30km bike leg (which I assume is the standard for sprint distance) but even the winner had cycle of 57mins 22 seconds so not sure on whether the course was a bit harder than a normal sprint? Interestingly, my 910 xt (Come on, I had to buy something flash at some point!) stated I cycled 20 miles?I normally do my run leg of a sprint in 22-23 mins like you, but my bike time is always around 38-39 mins to give you an idea!
Nevertheless, biking legs DEFINITELY need an improvement!!
30km is 10km longer than a standard sprint tri. On a hilly course 1 hour would be 18mph average, which is good going. Although hard to say what a hilly course is, as everone has different standards.
I did the IM UK bike course yesterday, as it's nearish to my house. Got chatting to a rugby player who is doing it next week! The guy was about 17 stone and finding it hard going getting up a medium hill. All credit to the guy if he gets around, he's going to need to be bloody persistant!
I did the IM UK bike course yesterday, as it's nearish to my house. Got chatting to a rugby player who is doing it next week! The guy was about 17 stone and finding it hard going getting up a medium hill. All credit to the guy if he gets around, he's going to need to be bloody persistant!
Here are the stats from my Garmin for the bike leg.
Distance: 20.74 mi
Time: 1:18:39
Avg Pace: 3:48 min/mi
Avg Speed: 15.8 mph
Elevation Gain: 820 ft
Calories: 1,161 C
Details
Timing
Time: 1:18:39
Moving Time: 1:18:28
Elapsed Time: 1:18:41
Avg Speed: 15.8 mph
Avg Moving Speed: 15.9 mph
Max Speed: 24.6 mph
Avg Pace: 3:48 min/mi
Avg Moving Pace: 3:47 min/mi
Best Pace: 2:26 min/mi
SpeedPaceElevation
Elevation Gain: 820 ft
Elevation Loss: 784 ft
Min Elevation: -108 ft
Max Elevation: 378 ft
Anyway, I loved it. Really enjoyed the atmosphere, the friendliness of all, the challenge and the sense of achievement at the end. With some better training I am sure I can start bringing down the times!
Distance: 20.74 mi
Time: 1:18:39
Avg Pace: 3:48 min/mi
Avg Speed: 15.8 mph
Elevation Gain: 820 ft
Calories: 1,161 C
Details
Timing
Time: 1:18:39
Moving Time: 1:18:28
Elapsed Time: 1:18:41
Avg Speed: 15.8 mph
Avg Moving Speed: 15.9 mph
Max Speed: 24.6 mph
Avg Pace: 3:48 min/mi
Avg Moving Pace: 3:47 min/mi
Best Pace: 2:26 min/mi
SpeedPaceElevation
Elevation Gain: 820 ft
Elevation Loss: 784 ft
Min Elevation: -108 ft
Max Elevation: 378 ft
Anyway, I loved it. Really enjoyed the atmosphere, the friendliness of all, the challenge and the sense of achievement at the end. With some better training I am sure I can start bringing down the times!
Iceman82 said:
That's useful to know, thanks Nick. It was a 30km bike leg (which I assume is the standard for sprint distance) but even the winner had cycle of 57mins 22 seconds so not sure on whether the course was a bit harder than a normal sprint? Interestingly, my 910 xt (Come on, I had to buy something flash at some point!) stated I cycled 20 miles?
Nevertheless, biking legs DEFINITELY need an improvement!!
ahhh! as someone has already mentioned a sprint tri is normally a 20k bike! Nevertheless, biking legs DEFINITELY need an improvement!!
I wondered why it seemed so slow! But with the fastest bike leg being 57:22, then that does sound like a mega hilly/hard course! Would normally expect the top guys to be doing sub 45-48 minutes on a 30k bike leg!I have a 310xt and love it. What do you think of 910xt? I was considering upgrading but not sure if i'll really use the extra features such as stroke rate for swimming etc!
Have you tried using it whilst swimming in open water? My 310xt loses GPS every time my arm goes udner water! Does the 910xt do the same?nick s said:
ahhh! as someone has already mentioned a sprint tri is normally a 20k bike! I wondered why it seemed so slow! But with the fastest bike leg being 57:22, then that does sound like a mega hilly/hard course! Would normally expect the top guys to be doing sub 45-48 minutes on a 30k bike leg!
I have a 310xt and love it. What do you think of 910xt? I was considering upgrading but not sure if i'll really use the extra features such as stroke rate for swimming etc! Have you tried using it whilst swimming in open water? My 310xt loses GPS every time my arm goes udner water! Does the 910xt do the same?
I promised myself a little tri treat and it was the one thing missing really as I had no idea how far I was running during training as I hate running with a phone. I think it's an awesome piece of kit to be honest. The swim data from this weekend was useful and I am looking forward to using it more and more in training. I wondered why it seemed so slow! But with the fastest bike leg being 57:22, then that does sound like a mega hilly/hard course! Would normally expect the top guys to be doing sub 45-48 minutes on a 30k bike leg!I have a 310xt and love it. What do you think of 910xt? I was considering upgrading but not sure if i'll really use the extra features such as stroke rate for swimming etc!
Have you tried using it whilst swimming in open water? My 310xt loses GPS every time my arm goes udner water! Does the 910xt do the same?Have a look here for a really impressive in depth review: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/10/garmin-forerunn... The section regards the open water tracking should help in relation to it vs the 310. Looks as though it is more accurate.
As a side note, I got mine from Runners Need as they price matched against an online price, so I saved £90!!
nick s said:
I have a 310xt and love it. What do you think of 910xt? I was considering upgrading but not sure if i'll really use the extra features such as stroke rate for swimming etc! Have you tried using it whilst swimming in open water? My 310xt loses GPS every time my arm goes udner water! Does the 910xt do the same?
I love my 910xt, although I am on my second one. First one always showed 100% battery even when the battery was flat. Returned to Garmin and had a replacement in under a week. Have you tried using it whilst swimming in open water? My 310xt loses GPS every time my arm goes udner water! Does the 910xt do the same?Openwater is useable, I think the higher your stroke cadence and hence more time the the watch is out of the water the more accurate it is. It still loses GPS if you have it under the water for more than a second or two. It's not perfect by any means.
I got mine from Simply run currently have the 910+HRM for £293.49. They do have 10% discount codes every couple of months on twitter/facebook which is when I got mine. Considerably less than I could see it elsewhere.
Really enjoyed the swim. Much more interesting than a pool. There are various circuits set up, the biggest being 500m, and you do laps of that.
Man, sighting is really difficult, i was swimming zig zags, ended up miles off course a couple of times.
Was taking it easy, as it was my first time, and averaged about 12 mins per 500m. I think could easily get this sub 10 by getting the direction right and upping pace a bit. What's a good time for 1500m swim?
Man, sighting is really difficult, i was swimming zig zags, ended up miles off course a couple of times.
Was taking it easy, as it was my first time, and averaged about 12 mins per 500m. I think could easily get this sub 10 by getting the direction right and upping pace a bit. What's a good time for 1500m swim?
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