The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

[matt-ITR]

Well thats my first OW swim done. A very sheltered dock, so not a lake or the sea, but a good first step.
It is about the closest place to me as well, around an hour drive and hope to spend a bit of time there over the coming weeks as well as a sprint tri next Sunday, which will be my only triathlon pre-celtman.

Ended up swimming a touch faster than I did in the pool. It felt very strange being so buoyant, so I have ordered a pair of buoyancy shorts to try and get me into that position for pool swims.

[944fan]

matt-ITR said:

Ended up swimming a touch faster than I did in the pool. It felt very strange being so buoyant, so I have ordered a pair of buoyancy shorts to try and get me into that position for pool swims.

I wouldn't recommend using those. You will get used to the buoyancy from the wetsuit when you do OW swims but using those in the pool is likely to drill in bad habits. If you naturally have sinky legs you need to deal with the reason for that (usually too high a head position). The shorts will mask that.

I remember my first OW swim it felt like I was rolling about all over the place on the top of the lake, after a couple of swims I got used to it and could switch between lake and pool.

Was the water cold?

[matt-ITR]

944fan said:

I wouldn't recommend using those. You will get used to the buoyancy from the wetsuit when you do OW swims but using those in the pool is likely to drill in bad habits. If you naturally have sinky legs you need to deal with the reason for that (usually too high a head position). The shorts will mask that.

I remember my first OW swim it felt like I was rolling about all over the place on the top of the lake, after a couple of swims I got used to it and could switch between lake and pool.

Was the water cold?

No the water seemed pretty warm I would say. Not sure if my watch was accurate, but that said 19 degrees.
Certainly not as cold as Celtman will be, but getting colder swims in can wait for now.

[944fan]

Was that in the UK? I doubt it was 19. Even the shallow lakes down south are only just knocking 15-16 degrees after the weekend sun.

All of which is positive for you as it will be closer to your race temp.

[matt-ITR]

I can only go from my Garmin, but I also doubted it. But it is a dock with no current and its fairly shallow, 190cm at the deepest points so it will never get really cold at this time of year.

[Jacobyte]

matt-ITR said:

Greg66 said:

I'd suggest asking something that specific on tritalk.co.uk.

Thank you

There is a specific Celtman thread there. But for PH, here's a bit of info:

I supported my brother in 2012, running with him after T2(B). In fact, I wore my Celtman "Support Crew" running shirt on a training session this morning.

A few things that spring to mind:

- Swim exit will be COLD. you'll not be able to feel your hands or legs, or hear anything. Several people will take 15-20 minutes before getting on their bike. Have your supporter rub you lots with a warm dry towel.

- Midges. Spray yourself in Deet both at T1 and even more so in T2(A).

- Bike is a great course, you'll love it. Ensure your support car/crew waits at sensible places and can hand you food whilst running alongside you without you needing to stop. Tell them to have the kedgeree at the pub in Gairloch on the right hand side of the road, it's delicious and fresh.

- Part 2 of the run, i.e. from T2(B), don't run up the hill, sorry mountain. Just walk up it confidently at a good pace, in fact up the final section you'll almost be scrabbling. It's 1km of vertical ascent. Once you're at the top you can get into a good rhythm along the ridge. Hopefully clouds won't spoil your view, but it is quite magnificent. After the scree descent and negotiating the boulder field, the uneven path seems to go on forever, but you can start to ramp up the speed here. Then when you're back on the road you can try an do a fast 4 or 5 miles for the final stretch to Torridon. Here, you might see people by the roadside puking.

It's a brilliant event.

Some pics wot I took:

[m444ttb]

Wow that looks amazing. Never looked into the Celtman.

[m444ttb]

I've been perusing the Celtman website. Sounds hard core. Very hard core. Has anyone done this and the Norseman to compare?

[matt-ITR]

Thanks for the pictures/info Jacobyte!
The boulder field looks intense, I have heard of it but not seen pictures so that is a real insight.

Do you think hand warmers would work for the end of the Swim? I don't plan on hanging around so long as I can physically cycle.
The person supporting me has completed the race before, although I have not met them yet but I am sure the experience they have will help.

As for Norseman vs Celtman, I have heard that Celtman is the tougher challenge, but Norseman is more competitive. Those finishing on the podium for Celtman are usually just Top 20 for Norseman.

[anonymous-user]

I look at that boulder field, and all I see is broken ankles...

[944fan]

matt-ITR said:

Thanks for the pictures/info Jacobyte!
The boulder field looks intense, I have heard of it but not seen pictures so that is a real insight.

Do you think hand warmers would work for the end of the Swim? I don't plan on hanging around so long as I can physically cycle.
The person supporting me has completed the race before, although I have not met them yet but I am sure the experience they have will help.

As for Norseman vs Celtman, I have heard that Celtman is the tougher challenge, but Norseman is more competitive. Those finishing on the podium for Celtman are usually just Top 20 for Norseman.

Think the swim on Norseman is generally a few degrees warmer.

The handbook for the Celtman says booties are allowed, doesn't mention gloves though. I know gloves often are because if they were webbed it would give an unfair advantage. If not might be worth getting some. Also perhaps get one of these:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/blueseventy-thermal-skull-...

Also have you seen this:

http://www.caac.org.uk/content/1008452

Long race report from previous competitor.

[Jacobyte]

matt-ITR said:

Thanks for the pictures/info Jacobyte!
The boulder field looks intense, I have heard of it but not seen pictures so that is a real insight.

Do you think hand warmers would work for the end of the Swim? I don't plan on hanging around so long as I can physically cycle.

No worries, I'm glad I had time to stop occasionally and take them as obviously I was much fresher than him so could run ahead or catch up.

Definitely hand warmers for T1 but probably not allowed during the swim (best check the regs). As for cycling immediately, I watched some people fall off whilst trying to mount as they were so delirious. You'll warm up soon enough on the bike.

Greg66 said:

I look at that boulder field, and all I see is broken ankles...

One competitor did a recce a few days before and broke his ankle right there. When I was picking my line over them I remember thinking "I'm glad it's dry today".

[matt-ITR]

944fan said:

Think the swim on Norseman is generally a few degrees warmer.

The handbook for the Celtman says booties are allowed, doesn't mention gloves though. I know gloves often are because if they were webbed it would give an unfair advantage. If not might be worth getting some. Also perhaps get one of these:

No gloves at all for Celtman, they take the rule from Norseman.
I have booties and that thermal cap sorted though.

[944fan]

I have been training for a half in July. I hadn't officially put my entry in as I just wanted to make sure old injuries etc didn't re-appear. Anyway yesterday I paid up and have officially entered.

60% excited 40% stting myself. I cycled 70km the other day in zone 2 (power). Felt pretty good after it but not to the point where I felt like I could run a half marathon.

Not concerned at all about the swim, biggest problem for me will be holding back so I don't over do it. Bike ride will be fine, run worries me.

Got 7 weeks to lose a another stone or so. Lost 2 already. Since switching to a power meter I can really see how the excess weight holds me back on the bike. I can't climb even a small hill without going into power zones 4-5, even at snails pace.

Training plan is entering the final build and then peak phase. Going to bed a 9 every night as I am knackered after all that training.

[matt-ITR]

944fan said:

Got 7 weeks to lose a another stone or so. Lost 2 already. Since switching to a power meter I can really see how the excess weight holds me back on the bike. I can't climb even a small hill without going into power zones 4-5, even at snails pace.

I get pretty hung up on weight, both kit and myself. It does make a huge difference and although it can be a ballache to drop body weight, it is "free".
I notice a fair difference in performance dropping a few excess KGs.

You may have seen this calculator which is pretty cool.

I dream of being 58kg and 300w FTP again.

Edited by matt-ITR on Thursday 12th May 16:29

[944fan]

matt-ITR said:

944fan said:

Got 7 weeks to lose a another stone or so. Lost 2 already. Since switching to a power meter I can really see how the excess weight holds me back on the bike. I can't climb even a small hill without going into power zones 4-5, even at snails pace.

I get pretty hung up on weight, both kit and myself. It does make a huge difference and although it can be a ballache to drop body weight, it is "free".
I notice a fair difference in performance dropping a few excess KGs.

You may have seen this calculator which is pretty cool.

I dream of being 58kg and 300w FTP again.

Edited by matt-ITR on Thursday 12th May 16:29

Cool calculator. If I can lose 20Kg I can save myself 30 mins on the HIM distance :-)

I think another stone is possible before the race. I would like to get down to a proper racing weight by the end of this year. Next year I want to do full ironman and want to be doing the training at neutral cals,not running a deficit

[matt-ITR]

Yeh training and negative calorie deficit is not easy or best for improving fitness.
It can help fat metabolism though and that is vital for HIM and IM distance events.

[944fan]

matt-ITR said:

Yeh training and negative calorie deficit is not easy or best for improving fitness.
It can help fat metabolism though and that is vital for HIM and IM distance events.

Yeah, good point. I believe I read somewhere that there is some good evidence that occasional fasted training (like one session a week) can give a similar benefit for fat metabolism without needing to be in calories deficit overall.

That problem is still a fair way off for me as I still need to shift quite a bit.

[matt-ITR]

Well thats my tri cherry popped.

Finished 15th overall at a Sprint tri, which was also the Welsh Champs so I am pleased. Lots I can still improve on of course.
Swim started slowly as I was a little unsure of what to expect, but finished quite well. Bike was the strong point as expected even though the course was pan flat and I managed a 5km PB on the run (19:45). Compared to the winner I lost around 4min Swim, 4min Run, 1 min Transition and another minute or so on the bike.

6 weeks to Celtman, which should suit me far more, but lots of positives from today.

[Dimski]

That's a mighty result for a first tri!

Forgive the googling, but Matt Page as in ex Pro cyclist?