The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

Author
Discussion

Dimski

2,099 posts

200 months

Sunday 3rd July 2016
quotequote all
Congratulations and well done for finishing!



As for mine, Isoman... Oh my gosh. It was tough! Harder than Ironman Wales was the consensus from us Tenby lot. (Or any Ironman that any of us had done. That says something as the run was fairly flat. I say run... I'll try to do a post about it when the times & splits are up.)

Dimski

2,099 posts

200 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
Right, Isoman… Forgive me for this tome.

A few fellow members of my local club entered this last year after reading Martyn Brunt’s review of the first ever one last year in 220 magazine. Having seen that post I couldn’t resist, and even though it was before I’d done Ironman Wales last year I entered.

Consisting of a 7 mile swim, 61.3 mile bike and 26.2 mile run, the organisers describe it as a balanced triathlon, with the 3 disciplines meant to take a similar length of time, assuming equal ability in all three. With the much longer swim than an Ironman, and that as my best discipline I had hoped this would be a perfect triathlon for me. Having previously completed a 15km swim, I (somewhat arrogantly) rather dismissed their website claim, “Harder than an Ironman, Fairer than an Ironman” as internet puffery.

So, the day dawned and we were lined up at Arrow Valley Lake for the start of the swim. I believe there were about 70 of us taking part in the long distance event, but there were also relay teams and swim only folk with us. Even a handful of hardy non-wetsuit swimmers were lined up ready to enter the lake, with shorter events starting later on.

Count down, start horn and we were off. While the water tasted lovely compared to the sea visibility under the water was poor and it was impossible to make out who you were fighting. I haven’t ever struggled with the start melee, and didn’t particularly this time but it definitely more of a scrum that I had got involved in before. I was aware that I wasn’t far behind the front, but could see the quick guys pulling away. I guess that this event, described as a ‘swimmers triathlon’ by crap swimmers had attracted those like myself who consider the swim sadly under represented in triathlon. wink 8 laps, counting them down, stopping for a big feed every two laps and a short one on some of the others. I got a bit of a boost from lap 4 onwards as I started to lap some of the slower swimmers, and from lap 6 started to see the silver cap middle distance guys and girls. Lap 7, wonder if one 750ml Isotonic drink was enough and crack on with the last lap. Out of the water, pee stop as they’d asked us not to in the lake, then up to transition. Swim split was 3hrs 32mins and about 13th, but I was out of the water before another of my club members who recorded 3:30, so must have been lost while visiting facilities.

I’d recced the bike course earlier in the year in about 3hrs 40 and thought it flat, but a roar in the ears right from the start announced the headwind, and also, how the hell did I not notice these hills? It took a while to get into it, at about 40 miles I got a bit of a second wind, picked up pace saw a few others ahead, and then some of the middle distancers who followed some of the same route. Knowing I would find the run tough anyway I didn’t hold back and went far too hard, coming back into transition after 3hrs 21mins, 10th quickest bike split (better than I managed the swim) and 20 mins faster than my recce. Opps.

Out onto the run. At least the course was flat, but I could really feel it in my legs and even though I went extremely steady I was over 10 mins per mile and struggling. I managed to run much of the first lap but even early on in the second was walking, feeling the backs of my knees cramping up and only running short sections.

I didn’t really have any dark patches during IM Wales, but by goodness I felt them this time! I was prepared to stop if needed as I’m not risking Alpe D’Huez, but the dreaded calf strain didn’t re-appear. A bit of unpleasantness from cramp, but that was about it. Related to that would be my only criticisms of the feed stations. Plenty of Gels, but they ran out of coke early on, and out of pretzels and crisps not that long after. Not ideal. I was caught on lap 3 by a fellow Tenby Ace and the distraction picked me up a touch, we started to run again. He also managed to locate some salt tablets, for which I will always be eternally grateful. Stayed with him for the remaining two laps and finally headed into the finish feeling absolutely ruined. 5hrs 57 mins for the marathon; just glad I made it to the end. Total 13 hours 2 mins, 27th from 56 finishers. In truth though I couldn’t care; I’m just delighted to have made it without injury!

All of the Tenby contingent had done Ironman Wales and a few other Iron distance events, but we were all agreed that this was the hardest event we’d attempted, and glad to say we all finished. That website claim, “Harder than an Ironman,…” – Yup, no arguments here!

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
Nice work Dimski, it sounds like a really tough event. Having just done a HIM my respect for people doing a full IM has grown massively. Especially this one. A 7 mile swim is a tough start for even the strongest of swimmers.

Made me chuckle that you were asked not to piss in the lake. Wonder how many actually took notice of that.

How do you feel today? I ache all over, especially my legs but otherwise I a feeling pretty good. Makes me worry now that I didn't try hard enough :-)

esuuv

1,324 posts

206 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
Well done to all those racing - ISO man sounds interesting, much as i'm a reasonable swimmer i'm just not sure I could tolerate seven miles - I did a 5k once - that was plenty!!

Having had an injury disaster this year and not having done a single race yet - I have London in a month, and the Weymouth half in September - neither will be spectacular as i have not been able to run more than 4 miles since March - but will see how I go, they were entered / paid for before I hurt myself so may as well potter round as i'm mended enough I wont hurt myself more if i'm sensible.

As a bit of a long term objective i've entered Frankfurt IM for next year - Copenhagen last year was 10.48 - so really I have to go for sub 10 - not sure if I can but I have a year to train. I've bought a Kickr and am getting into trainer road - my Copenhagen training was a little hap hazard so the aim is to have a lot more structure and see where I end up. Aim is a sub hour swim, 5.15 on the bike and a 3.30 run - i've done a 5k ow swim in 1.15, and have run a 3.14 marathon - so have the potential / know how to train for those two - bike needs a little work, my position i'm not 100% with but i did a 5.35 split in Copenhagen so not too far away.

Dimski

2,099 posts

200 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
944fan said:
Nice work Dimski, it sounds like a really tough event. Having just done a HIM my respect for people doing a full IM has grown massively. Especially this one. A 7 mile swim is a tough start for even the strongest of swimmers.

Made me chuckle that you were asked not to piss in the lake. Wonder how many actually took notice of that.

How do you feel today? I ache all over, especially my legs but otherwise I a feeling pretty good. Makes me worry now that I didn't try hard enough :-)
Thanks. As I usually find swimming quite aerobic and less intense than a cycle (or maybe just less intense periods like hills) I vastly underestimated it!

I suspect quite a few ignored the pee in the lake instruction, but I've never been able to manage it anyway! hehe Even during that 15km swim while absolutely bursting I couldn't coax a drop out.


Muscles wise I'm not too bad. I was pretty slow moving Sunday morning, but by the end of the day was doing ok. Yesterday while still a bit stiff was moving more or less normally, and today I managed to get myself back out for a gentle run, get the blood flowing back to the muscles and help recovery.

It's funny, the first half mile today I could feel the deadness and pain in the leg muscles, but the time I was a mile in everything seemed to start working again and the pain went. If anything I kept telling myself to slow down and take it easy. Very weird.


Edit to add - Neil, that's mighty impressive target, good luck with the training! I though I was a decent swimmer but I've not quite cracked an hour for IM distance. (Well, I have but it was tide assisted. In flat water my best is 1:01)

Edited by Dimski on Tuesday 5th July 18:30

ED209

5,747 posts

245 months

Wednesday 6th July 2016
quotequote all
Got serious anxiety now about the Bamburgh Middle distance i am entered on 3rd september, I didn't realise it had cut off times but it has.

By the time it comes round it will be the fourth triathlon i will have done a go tri event, a sprint and a standard. Whilst the sea swim is something new to me at this point I would hope to finish in about 50 mins (cut off 70 mins), I have recently done a 64 mile fairly hilly sportive in about 4hrs 10 and I have recently ran a steady, hilly training HM in 1hr 50 so I should be able to get within cut off of 8hrs, my head is however now telling me i am going to struggle!

I suppose the standard i am doing next weekend will be a good indication but has anyone else had the same sort of feelings when training for longer events?

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Wednesday 6th July 2016
quotequote all
The cut offs are usually pretty generous I think. I am sure you will be fine, just trust in your training and be confident. Don't panic and start trying to cram training or anything.

If you can do a 1:50 half you will have no probs. My HIM I has just done was the 3rd Tri I had done, the other two being two pool sprints 2-3 years ago!

My fastest HM going into that was 2:08. You clearly have good aerobic endurance so you will be fine.

ED209

5,747 posts

245 months

Wednesday 6th July 2016
quotequote all
944fan said:
The cut offs are usually pretty generous I think. I am sure you will be fine, just trust in your training and be confident. Don't panic and start trying to cram training or anything.

If you can do a 1:50 half you will have no probs. My HIM I has just done was the 3rd Tri I had done, the other two being two pool sprints 2-3 years ago!

My fastest HM going into that was 2:08. You clearly have good aerobic endurance so you will be fine.
I think I should be fine, I have done 1.38 and 1.40 standalone HM's previously its stringing the events together that I'm worried about, Im nervous about the swim and the bike will need to be done faster than my usual average speed. Hopefully this shouldn't be too hard as its a flat route only about 1200 ft of climbing in 56 miles, where i live if i cycle 20 miles i normally exceed that climb.

My wife has been following a far more structured plan which maybe i should have done.

Another thing adding to my concern is that last year i developed a groin problem whilst training for a marathon, causes me pain sometimes when running. This had cleared up after physio and exercises but after upping my training a bit its back! Not as bad as it was last year but I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. I managed a marathon with the injury but i pray it doesn't stop me before i have started.


anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 6th July 2016
quotequote all
ED209 said:
Another thing adding to my concern is that last year i developed a groin problem whilst training for a marathon, causes me pain sometimes when running. This had cleared up after physio and exercises but after upping my training a bit its back! Not as bad as it was last year but I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. I managed a marathon with the injury but i pray it doesn't stop me before i have started.
A groin pain, you say? Right in the crease at the inside top of your leg?

Try hopping on the affected leg. Report back on whether you feel pain.

ED209

5,747 posts

245 months

Wednesday 6th July 2016
quotequote all
Greg66 said:
ED209 said:
Another thing adding to my concern is that last year i developed a groin problem whilst training for a marathon, causes me pain sometimes when running. This had cleared up after physio and exercises but after upping my training a bit its back! Not as bad as it was last year but I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. I managed a marathon with the injury but i pray it doesn't stop me before i have started.
A groin pain, you say? Right in the crease at the inside top of your leg?

Try hopping on the affected leg. Report back on whether you feel pain.
I can't do hopping well but it doest seem to cause pain. Basically last year i had the classic symptoms of gilmores groin, physio and doc said because i could still run etc surgery wasn't necessary. Its not as bad as it was last year but it is causing me concern. just been out for 22 mile on the bike and a short 2.5 mile brick run. It didn't really bother me but i did have an aching right testicle before i went out!

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 6th July 2016
quotequote all
OK - just be aware that femoral stress fractures and stress responses (the precursor to a fracture) usually first make themselves known with referred pain in the groin.

The hop test is pretty good IME, in that impact triggers a pain response in the groin if you have either of these.

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Sunday 10th July 2016
quotequote all
Did my first run after my HIM. Had recovered fully by then so that was fairly uneventful. I am going to really tackle the Oly distance next and really try for some good times on that. I think that distance suits my power/endurance ratio better.

I did a 40Km TT this morning on a hilly route in the wind and rain in 1:18.

Really need to improve my 10km run though as that is poor. Mostly because I am still a big fat fatty so reckon if I can spend the rest of the year trimming the weight I can knock 8-10 mins off that purely by losing the flab.

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
Has anyone on here qualified for an age group place, standard distance? My wife was asking what I wanted to do next and I said I would love to qualify. She scoffed, and that is like a red rag to a bull telling me I can't do something.

Going to do a Oly distance in a few weeks, and do some standalone events to find my current level. I am talking about a 2-3 year target as I know I am miles off at the minute.

I reckon I need to drop 20 mins off my 40km and 20 mins from my 10km. The swim I am close anyway, just need to build that extra final speed.

Positives I have on my side are a) I have a lot of weight to lose, which will help with the run speed. b) My bike power is high (current FTP is 248 with only 5 months basic training and having not ridden for 18 months prior) c) I have a fairly decent disposable income to spend on coaching, kit etc d) I am willing to invest huge amount of time and effort e) I don't drink (only relevant as I dropped 25 seconds off my 400m when i quit)

I can do a very hilly and windy 40km in 1:18 and I reckon in my current state I could do a flat 40km in 1:07-8.

I realise I could have no chance, but unless I tri (geddit it) I will never know.

Jacobyte

4,726 posts

243 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
You'll need to go sub 2:15 or even sub 2:10 for an AG World's place, especially if it's a popular location.

Your swim is already fast, so no real worries about that. But the bike really needs to be sub-1hr if you're not running sub-40mins. And work on the transitions too.

ED209

5,747 posts

245 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
Got my first standard coming up on Sunday. Its a build up to the 70.3 I am attempting in Sept. I am looking forward to it as a guide to where i am at.

Im not really a good swimmer, I don't think i am that fast on the bike but i am a fairly reasonable runner so it will be interesting.

Only swam open water twice before and i would hope I could do 1500m in maybe 36-37 mins assuming I can stay in a straight line! I would hope to do the run in maybe about 50 mins when tiredness is taken into account. The cycling is an unknown for me really as i haven't ever cycled a flat route before. i normally average 14-15 mph on more hilly routes, and managed a 13.8 average on my hybrid on Sunday over 42 miless with about 3/4 of that on cycle tracks and with 1800 ft of elevation.

Would pushing my average up to say 17 mph be possible on a flat course, on a road bike in race conditions?

As its my first effort i am guesstimating 3 to 3.5 house as a ball park figure?

Edited by ED209 on Monday 11th July 21:53

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
ED209 said:
Would pushing my average up to say 17 mph be possible on a flat course, on a road bike in race conditions?
I depends on how much you weigh and your power, if you are averaging 14-15 on a hilly course but are light as a feather then you wont get a great deal of extra speed on the flat. If you are like me and weight a lot then a flat course will work nicely in your favour.

You need to make sure you don't over cook it on the bike and destroy your run. The difference between 15 mph and 17 is 12 minutes over the 40km. But if that 17 is all you have you will lose more than 12mins on the run.

If you don't have a power meter or HR monitor then you will have to go by feel. Aim to be operating at about 8 on the RPE scale, so that is close to all out buy dialled back a bit. Go by feel rather than speed. 17 mph might be easy for you but as you don't know I would go with a comfortably hard pace and not worry about your speed.

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
Jacobyte said:
You'll need to go sub 2:15 or even sub 2:10 for an AG World's place, especially if it's a popular location.

Your swim is already fast, so no real worries about that. But the bike really needs to be sub-1hr if you're not running sub-40mins. And work on the transitions too.
Yeah. I looked at Tri Liverpool (one of the qualifiers) results for last year and I would have to be knocking on the door of 2:05 for a spot. That is a very flat course it looks like which suits me, but the top 2 are sub 1 hr on the bike and 33-36 on the run. I would need to be sub 2:12 for a chance of a roll down spot to be within the 120%.

I am going to focus on the bike and run over the winter. I have a weeks tri camp in March next year and will enter plenty of Oly distance next season. I think after a solid winter and a whole season I will have a clearer picture of whether I am improving enough to be getting close or still miles away.

My transitions need a lot of work. Some quick wins to be had though by getting used to bike and run without socks and leaving the shoes clipped in. I need to sort my dizziness after a swim too as that really slows me getting out of the water and running. My bike handling skills need work too. I put these things all in the category of marginal gains and will work on them whilst building the fitness.

I don't want to set myself up for an enormous fail but I have nothing to lose by trying and lots to gain (lost weight, huge fitness etc) anyway.

ED209

5,747 posts

245 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
944fan said:
ED209 said:
Would pushing my average up to say 17 mph be possible on a flat course, on a road bike in race conditions?
I depends on how much you weigh and your power, if you are averaging 14-15 on a hilly course but are light as a feather then you wont get a great deal of extra speed on the flat. If you are like me and weight a lot then a flat course will work nicely in your favour.

You need to make sure you don't over cook it on the bike and destroy your run. The difference between 15 mph and 17 is 12 minutes over the 40km. But if that 17 is all you have you will lose more than 12mins on the run.

If you don't have a power meter or HR monitor then you will have to go by feel. Aim to be operating at about 8 on the RPE scale, so that is close to all out buy dialled back a bit. Go by feel rather than speed. 17 mph might be easy for you but as you don't know I would go with a comfortably hard pace and not worry about your speed.
I weigh about 81-82kg, i don't use a power meter and haven't really ever considered anything as technical as my power output but strava has my power output on my last 3 rides as best average 205 watts on the 42 miler, 238 watts on a 25 miler, and 243 on a 22 miler.

I own a watch with an integrated HR monitor but to be honest i don't really use it, i just go out and cycle as to how i feel.

Suppose I'm just best to suck it and see.

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
944fan said:
Positives I have on my side are c) I have a fairly decent disposable income to spend on coaching, kit etc
Coach, power meter, GPS watch, gait analysis/run technique sessions, bike fit, disc wheel, aero helmet, pre-emptive regular Physio, nutritionist.

The nutritionist will get your weight down. The Physio and the gait/run technique will help prevent injury and improve efficiency. Bike fit/wheel/helmet are the easiest ways to buy speed. A coach will make you faster.

And discipline, and a fierce appetite for holding yourself in the "considerable discomfort" zone.

I know the path, but making myself walk it is not that easy!

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Tuesday 12th July 2016
quotequote all
Coach - Check. Have used him a lot for the swimming which has made a massive improvement. He is running the camp next year too. Will start using him more for bike and run and think about attending some of his group track sessions.

Power meter - check. Got the power meter hand book and training and racing with a power meter too. Got premium TrainingPeaks account for analysis. Is the WKO+ software worthwhile?

GPS - check. Garmin 910XT

Bike - Had a bike fit but have an issue. The Planet X stealth is too small. Plan is end of season to get a pre-sale bike fit and then get a new bike. Will sneak some aero wheels on that at some point too. Will get it set up for a more aero position. My current fit was for a HIM and was done for comfort.

Physio / Nutritionist - hadn't thought of these. The place that I got my othortics from have physios and do gait analysis. The Running School also looks good for that. Will look at a getting some nutrition advice. My coach has a relationship with one so can speak to them.

I think I am quite good at burying myself into the black. My coach has said that in the past when I have done 400m TT with him in the pool.