The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

[drgav2005]

baxb said:

Cheers Gav, main difference is i'm now 15st 3 rather than 16st 7 I was in Austria ! how is your & Lorna's Outlaw prep going ? It is nice to have a September event this year, meaning I don't need to start doing the 6 hour bike sessions until late May & hopefully in decent weather.

That's brilliant, a great result - I'm guessing you'll really notice the improvement in W/kg on both the bike and the run

The training is going great, thanks! I've started ramping up the hours a bit but keeping the intensity and HR pretty low. Managed just over 15 hours last week through a combination of early mornings and some longer sessions at the weekend. Like you say, having a later event is nice, hopefully means the longer rides (and outdoor swims) will be a bit warmer than last year. My coach has me pencilled in for a few big weeks (20 hours or so) leading up to the race and I almost had palpitations... then I figured out I was going to be on holiday for a few weeks before (the only real benefit of being a teacher at this point in time!) so should be much easier to fit in the longer bikes and runs. Less than 20 weeks for us to go - and knowing how fast Austria came around last time, that will probably fly by! Lorna's training is going well too, thanks! We're keeping a close eye on each other... the competitive spirit is alive and well in our house!!! Given I was only 18 mins ahead in Austria I'm making sure I stay on target otherwise she'll kick my ass

Hope the training continues to go well !!!

[baxb]

Ha Ha ! sounds like you two ought to cross the line arm in arm in Nottingham otherwise there will be trouble I don't know what the numbers are but I do notice a huge difference on the hills with the bike, finding it very easy to live with much lighter mates on the hills on our regular routes, we don't have anything like the terrain you have, but there is some decent rolling stuff to go over. I am helping a Phd student at Essex Uni with a study which meant I did a VO2 Max the other week & I am now one week into 4 weeks of a weekly 4k time trial in the lab - will post up the numbers when I get them as be useful to get an interpretation of what they mean.

Also managed to get a spot in Sunday's Colchester Half Marathon this week, friend of a friend has dropped out through injury & I have his spot, will be happy with sub 2, but will try for a 1.45.

Sounds like you are going well, i'm up to date on the blog - good luck with the next 20 weeks !

[944fan]

drgav2005 said:

Some nice swimming there! I'm nowhere close to that - I'd be delighted if I could break 7:30!!

Thanks, the coaching is really paying off. This time last year I couldn't do two lengths. I have only had about 4 sessions with the coach but he is some kind of Alchemist.

As much as my height and thus weight hold me back on the bike and running it does give me a big boost in the pool as I have a massive stroke.

[baxb]

Chaps, as mentioned above I did a VO2 Max test as part of a study at the local Uni - I volunteered for this study knowing it would require some cycling & testing in the lab without knowing all the ins & outs, so not ever having done this sort of thing before didn't even realise they were doing a VO2 max test until it was all over (was just described as a 'maximal' test) The format was hold 90 rpm while they upped the wattage at 2 min intervals. I hung on for grim death all the way through 350 & crumbled when it hit 375 (20 mins or so in) - So other than knowing my chance of making it big on the pro circuit has gone ! - Is there anything I can learn from this random set of digits ?

[drgav2005]

baxb said:

Chaps, as mentioned above I did a VO2 Max test as part of a study at the local Uni - I volunteered for this study knowing it would require some cycling & testing in the lab without knowing all the ins & outs, so not ever having done this sort of thing before didn't even realise they were doing a VO2 max test until it was all over (was just described as a 'maximal' test) The format was hold 90 rpm while they upped the wattage at 2 min intervals. I hung on for grim death all the way through 350 & crumbled when it hit 375 (20 mins or so in) - So other than knowing my chance of making it big on the pro circuit has gone ! - Is there anything I can learn from this random set of digits ?

Hi Brendan,

Aren't VO2 max tests fun!! I was part of a University of The West of Scotland study where they were looking at the effects of nitrates and VO2 max. So for 6 weeks I did one of these very quickly followed by a 10 mile time trial on a TT bike - I was left burst after every session!

Your VO2 max values look to be 34.8 ml/kg/min from this test. VO2 max is the maximum amount of oxygen in milliliters, one can utilise in one minute per kilogram of body weight. VO2max is important indicator of training status and cardiovascular fitness. In addition to your level of aerobic fitness, VO2max is affected by age and gender. A table of typical values can be seen in Table 1 below.

Age Very Poor Poor Fair Good Excellent Superior
13-19 <35.0 35.0 - 38.3 38.4 - 45.1 45.2 - 50.9 51.0 - 55.9 >55.9
20-29 <33.0 33.0 - 36.4 36.5 - 42.4 42.5 - 46.4 46.5 - 52.4 >52.4
30-39 <31.5 31.5 - 35.4 35.5 - 40.9 41.0 - 44.9 45.0 - 49.4 >49.4
40-49 <30.2 30.2 - 33.5 33.6 - 38.9 39.0 - 43.7 43.8 - 48.0 >48.0
50-59 <26.1 26.1 - 30.9 31.0 - 35.7 35.8 - 40.9 41.0 - 45.3 >45.3
60+ <20.5 20.5 - 26.0 26.1 - 32.2 32.3 - 36.4 36.5 - 44.2 >44.2

To be honest VO2 max isn't that useful in itself but when tracked against your training can show how you are progressing, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it.

Ask them for the value of your heart rate and your power output at your lactate threshold (the exercise intensity at which lactate and the associated acidic
hydrogen ions start to accumulate in the blood stream)... this is very useful as you can then base your heart rate / power training zones around this number to ensure that you are training either aerobically or anaerobically as desired.

The heart rate zones are often broken down into zones 1-5

Zone 1: normally 75-82% of L.T. heart rate: aerobic
This is a low-intensity zone used to establish a strong cardiovascular base. This zone is also used for active recovery after intense training.

Zone 2: normally 83-90% of L.T. heart rate: aerobic
This is a moderate-intensity zone used to improve overall conditioning and endurance. Zone 2 is an excellent calorie-burning zone because you can exercise here comfortably for an extended period of time.

Zone 3: 91-100% of L.T. heart rate: aerobic
This is a higher-intensity zone used to improve aerobic conditioning. Well-conditioned athletes will spend most of their time in this zone during a race.

Zone 4: 101-110% of L.T. heart rate: anaerobic
This is a high-intensity zone used for speed work and interval training. Training in this zone will enhance lactate threshold and aerobic capacity and improve exercise performance but must be used carefully during competition with recovery periods between workouts to avoid exhaustion.

Zone 5: 110%+ all the way up to your max hear rate: anaerobic
This is the highest-intensity training zone and is reserved for use in very hard interval training or near the end of performance.

Most of my time at the minute is currently spent in zones 2 and 3 (which for me is about 145 bpm) which massively improves the aerobic base. My training is gradually adding in more z4 (and occasionally Z5) work which helps to extend the threshold levels - i.e. pushes up the h.r. level where you start forming that wonderful lactate... Given our crazy sport, maximising the range we stay aerobic means we become more efficient at burning fat in our body.

Hope this helps!

[baxb]

Thanks for that Gav, will have a proper read when I'm not on the phone tomorrow. While the Vo2 numbers don't seem to be all that I'm not really bothered as training is going great, I took 46 sec (!) off my parkrun PB yesterday morning to bring it down to 22.51 & followed up with a 1h 47m 07s half marathon this morning. It's amazing how much quicker you can go just by being less of a fatty !!

[drgav2005]

baxb said:

Thanks for that Gav, will have a proper read when I'm not on the phone tomorrow. While the Vo2 numbers don't seem to be all that I'm not really bothered as training is going great, I took 46 sec (!) off my parkrun PB yesterday morning to bring it down to 22.51 & followed up with a 1h 47m 07s half marathon this morning. It's amazing how much quicker you can go just by being less of a fatty !!

Fantastic running - great 5km time AND a 1:47 half - not too shabby at all!!!

[dangerousB]

baxb said:

Chaps, as mentioned above I did a VO2 Max test as part of a study at the local Uni - I volunteered for this study knowing it would require some cycling & testing in the lab without knowing all the ins & outs, so not ever having done this sort of thing before didn't even realise they were doing a VO2 max test until it was all over (was just described as a 'maximal' test) The format was hold 90 rpm while they upped the wattage at 2 min intervals. I hung on for grim death all the way through 350 & crumbled when it hit 375 (20 mins or so in) - So other than knowing my chance of making it big on the pro circuit has gone ! - Is there anything I can learn from this random set of digits ?

Ooh, those tests are tough aren't they! Terrific fun in a masochistic sense and great to have a few numbers to measure your progress.

I won't add too much to what what Dr Gav's already said, as he's spot on - as endurance athletes, we are really more interested in power at LT, as that is a greater predictor of overall performance than VO2max - especially as the distance increases. The greater the distance of your race, the more your potential will be dictated by your fuelling profile than fitness - that is why we want to become extremely efficient at burning high proportions of fat at as high an intensity output as we are able.

I've just plotted a quick graph of the pertinent info - power vs HR and I've indicated 80 - 85% HRmax (I took your 178 as being that - it won't be precise, but it's a good ball park), which is roughly the area where a fit athletes LT will occur - you can work your own out more precisely by doing the same test and note the HR that your breathing becomes laboured (or the time you'd rather not talk for the first time!!).

As a triathlete, what you'll want to do is push that graph down (the y axis) and along (the x axis) - it's a great way of quantifying your progress (and predicting performance).

[baxb]

Thanks for that DangerousB, I must be a bit of an oddball long distance triathlete as I don't train with a HRM or powermeter etc, I just set out to complete x number of miles on the bike or run, or do an hour in the pool etc & just pace myself on how I feel. I don't doubt that there would be a benefit on trainning to the 'numbers' but I stopped using the HRM on my Polar computer after it wouldn't hold a signal & new batteries made no difference. I've been thinking about getting a Garmin computer but I also need new trainers, bike will need a new chain & BB soon & I quite like to eat every now & again so I suspect I will continue to put off the Garmin for another while !!

[anonymous-user]

Roller coaster week. Woke up on Monday with a very sore right knee. Subsequent poking + Dr Internet led me to think I had pes aneris bursitis. Damn. Took a couple of days off running (because it was just too bloody painful) and backed off the big gear haul-ass traffic light pull aways on the bike, and loaded up with Volterol. I was able to run on it gently on Wed/Thur; by which time it seemed to be receding as fast as it had come on.

Saw the physio on Friday who asked whether I'd had any adjustments to my bike, which reminded me that at the end of Sunday's turbo session I felt the seat post slip - I got off and measured it to find it had dropped 4.5cm! Culprit identified. Ride at the correct height and the bursitis vanishes.

I went for my LSD run this am feeling a bit reluctant, but no aches and pains meant it wasn't too hard (though not too nice either). Got home, measured up, and found I'd run consistent bang on 7 min miles for just over 11 miles! Well chuffed with that, because for me, that's nothing short of flying! If only I had kept going another 2 miles - I would have come in around 1h 31-32m for a 1/2M distance... Next time...

[drgav2005]

Greg66 said:

Roller coaster week. Woke up on Monday with a very sore right knee. Subsequent poking + Dr Internet led me to think I had pes aneris bursitis. Damn. Took a couple of days off running (because it was just too bloody painful) and backed off the big gear haul-ass traffic light pull aways on the bike, and loaded up with Volterol. I was able to run on it gently on Wed/Thur; by which time it seemed to be receding as fast as it had come on.

Saw the physio on Friday who asked whether I'd had any adjustments to my bike, which reminded me that at the end of Sunday's turbo session I felt the seat post slip - I got off and measured it to find it had dropped 4.5cm! Culprit identified. Ride at the correct height and the bursitis vanishes.

I went for my LSD run this am feeling a bit reluctant, but no aches and pains meant it wasn't too hard (though not too nice either). Got home, measured up, and found I'd run consistent bang on 7 min miles for just over 11 miles! Well chuffed with that, because for me, that's nothing short of flying! If only I had kept going another 2 miles - I would have come in around 1h 31-32m for a 1/2M distance... Next time...

Great running Greg - I'd be pretty delighted with 7 min miles over 11 miles! Good that you quickly figured out the seat drop was the cause of the knee pain too.

March has been a great month for training and we're off to Lanzarote for a week in just over a week - I can't wait!

Blog updated at: http://drgironman.blogspot.co.uk

[anonymous-user]

drgav2005 said:

Great running Greg - I'd be pretty delighted with 7 min miles over 11 miles! Good that you quickly figured out the seat drop was the cause of the knee pain too.

March has been a great month for training and we're off to Lanzarote for a week in just over a week - I can't wait!

Blog updated at: http://drgironman.blogspot.co.uk

Ye Gods, Doc, I've just read your blog and been left feeling very inadequate!

I'm six weeks off HIM Mallorca and I'm dossing around by comparison. Ok, the running is coming on well, considering a big chunk of time loss over the winter with the foot break. But... I went out biking three Sundays ago with my IM partner (who's also in for Mallorca) and felt strong. Today, he has three weeks of riding twice a week with the Rapha boys in Regents Park under his belt, and for 81 miles he absolutely beasted me. It was grim. I held on, but I'm not used to staring at a rear wheel and watching the elastic stretch. I had to turn myself inside out to hold on, and I'm sure he didn't have to work anything like as hard. I'm hoping this was a run hangover (my legs felt pitiful for the whole day), but who knows? I certainly don't have enough time to sort it out if it wasn't.

And swimming... Well, I've been banking on being a fish, rather than a runner, train to your weaknesses etc, but I haven't started swim training yet. Last pool outing was Sept. So now I'm getting worried about that too.

Yeah, so reading about your 68h week wasn't really the best medicine!

[whatleytom]

drgav2005 said:

Great running Greg - I'd be pretty delighted with 7 min miles over 11 miles! Good that you quickly figured out the seat drop was the cause of the knee pain too.

March has been a great month for training and we're off to Lanzarote for a week in just over a week - I can't wait!

Blog updated at: http://drgironman.blogspot.co.uk

That is a quite ludicrous amount of volume! Think I managed just over 30 hours this month! April will be a lot more all things being well as I haven't yet properly started swimming :/ and I can now get out properly andrun after work rather than having to drive to the nearest town to run around street lit roads!

[madbadger]

whatleytom said:

That is a quite ludicrous amount of volume! Think I managed just over 30 hours this month! April will be a lot more all things being well as I haven't yet properly started swimming :/ and I can now get out properly andrun after work rather than having to drive to the nearest town to run around street lit roads!

So much nicer training in the daylight.

[drgav2005]

Greg,

It was a 69 hour month, not week, if that makes you feel a little better! ;-) I must say, I've really enjoyed the training and most of it has been fairly low heart rate stuff, hence being able to cope with the higher volume. I've really been ensuring that I keep my knee exercises and leg stretches going after every run or bike, taking about 20-25 mins or so and I'm convinced that is what is keeping me injury free to date.

I'm really looking forward to getting outside on the bike and had it not been for selling my TT bike and knackering my current road bike I'd have been out for the last few weeks. It will be interesting to see how all the turbo work transfers to the road - should find out next week whilst battling the headwinds in Lanza!

Don't stress about the timing - if you're doing 81 miles on the bike and running 7 minute milesI reckon you're doing pretty bloody well!

Tom,

How is the new P3? I've ended up ordering a Wilier Twin Blade and it should hopefully be ready in about 3 weeks... I may even get my new road bike next week (or when I get back from training)... It's been a big volume month for training and the credit card!!!

Here's to a great month of training ahead for everyone

[Hoddo]

The running advice I got earlier in the topic has been fantastic, wondered if you could help with cycling tips.

After Easter I start a new job. I am going to commute on my bike (10 miles each way) as much as possible, however I want to make sure I am not just plodding through the distance. Lets say I commute 3 times per week (60 miles total), what drills could I introduce to my ride to improve stamina, fitness, endurance etc.

The route is mainly undulating flat country roads with one short (150 meters) but very steep hill.

Thanks

[drgav2005]

Hoddo said:

The running advice I got earlier in the topic has been fantastic, wondered if you could help with cycling tips.

After Easter I start a new job. I am going to commute on my bike (10 miles each way) as much as possible, however I want to make sure I am not just plodding through the distance. Lets say I commute 3 times per week (60 miles total), what drills could I introduce to my ride to improve stamina, fitness, endurance etc.

The route is mainly undulating flat country roads with one short (150 meters) but very steep hill.

Thanks

Hi Hoddo,

First of all, even 'plodding' your 10 mile route there and back each day will improve your fitness. Stamina and endurance will improve the more (i.e. longer distances/time) you ride your bike. If it is safe to do so (i.e. quiet country roads) you could introduce some additional drills but more on that in a minute.

From my experience one of the key changes I made to my cycling had been to increase my cadence up to 90 rpm. I'd been a bit of a grinder before, relying too much on leg strength and not enough on the CV system. Getting up to this cadence has been beneficial on a number of counts; notably it is the same cadence as my running (180 strides per minute) so the transition from bike to run is MUCH easier. Your leg muscles are not under contraction for as long so they will feel less fatigued and you will balance the load between your leg strength and CV systems leading to efficiencies in both.

Pedal technique: try and keep each stroke smooth and imagine scraping dirt off the bottom of your shoe as you pull it backwards. If you have access to a Watt bike at the gym you'll be able to see your left/right leg balance (obviously aiming for 50:50 here) and whether or not there are any dead-spots in your stroke.

Out on the road ensure you warm up during each ride, so start pedalling at 90-100 rpm in a low gear until you're fully awake and up for your commute. For the first few rides I'd be tempted to take it fairly easy at first and get to learn the road. Any dodgy corners, potholes, adverse camber, drains, rough surfaces, overhanging trees / branches, painted lines etc.? Any junctions where you may be less visible to traffic - if so even if you're keeping a good pace you may well want to be over the brakes just in case. Make sure you're very visible: lights and clothing and of course protecting the old noggin with a helmet!

If the roads are flat and fairly straight you could introduce a 10 min TT - pedal at 100-105 rpm at your threshold power (on a relative perceived exertion of about 8/10 - i.e. hard bloody work, uncomfortable, happy when it's over!) - your HR will probably be around 85-90% of your max HR. Then back down into your normal aerobic range (i.e. 5 or 6/10), spinning at around 90 rpm.

You can introduce more strength work by increasing your gearing and dropping your cadence to 60rpm, then up 1 gear at 70 rpm (i.e. easier gear to push), then up one more gear at 80 rpm (so you're pretty much maintaining the same speed). Try and stay seated on the hills and keep spinning away at 90 rpm., or alternatively, when you're feeling up for it, punch a harder gear and get up and out of the saddle and try and sprint up it. If you've got time, turn around and go up it more often!

As you commute more often you will start to feel the gains and will either be able to maintain the same time and lower your heart rate, or of course get there sooner. Mix it up a bit and remember that every now and again that you'll need to do a really easy recovery ride - especially after a hard day's work. Every mile you put in will be good training!

Hope this helps!

[Hoddo]

drgav2005, that is fantastic. Thank you very much.

Thankfully, I know the road well, however I have never ridden it at 7am on a weekday so I shall certainly take your advice and take it easy to start with.

Previously I only measured speed and distance when out riding. Other than counting is there a simple way of measuring cadence?

[snowdude2910]

Just a quick one to pop my head in. I'm planning on doing the wicksteed park triathlon in June with an aim for ironman next year. I can currently swim 1500m in about 30minutes although until now don't train regularly so I'm hoping I can knock that down a little and I'll need to make some technique adjustments to involve swimming in a straight line without a pool floor to look at. I'd say I'm predominemtly a cyclist commuting 10miles each way regularly in around 27-30minutes so I think I could achieve a 1hr 15cycle, is this respectable? Will aero bars and a forward leaning seat post make a big difference? My weak point will definitely be the running I've never seriously run before so am starting from prety much scratch. I managed the first mile of a 20minute run in 9minutes before I had to stop on Wednesday so hoping to get to constant 8minute miles over the 10k by june. I've read a little on the cycling rules regarding helmets ie. Never bike and no helmet so I'll have to buy one of them and the drafting rule of 5meters seperation unless passing. Is there anything else I should know or is it prety much turn up and swim bike run from there?

[drgav2005]

Hoddo said:

drgav2005, that is fantastic. Thank you very much.

Thankfully, I know the road well, however I have never ridden it at 7am on a weekday so I shall certainly take your advice and take it easy to start with.

Previously I only measured speed and distance when out riding. Other than counting is there a simple way of measuring cadence?

Hi Hoddo,

No worries

If you have a Garmin watch you should get yourself a GSC-10 speed / cadence sensor: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/garmin-gsc-10-wireless-spe...

Got one on both my bikes - takes away the guesswork!