The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

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dangerousB

Original Poster:

1,693 posts

189 months

Thursday 14th January 2016
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ED209 said:
My wife has kindly entered me in a 70.3 event in spetember as part of my christmas present. Nice of her but a bit ambitious since i have never ever swam in open water (its a sea swim) and i have only ever done one go-tri event before.
If it helps, my mate had a big phobia about swimming - could barely swim a solitary length in an indoor pool. If he did manage it, he was gasping for air at the end and certainly not looking to repeat the experience! This despite having a very strong background in sport (rowing ironically, pretty much elite level). He had never swam in open water and tbh, couldn't think of anything he'd rather not do.

Last June I taught him the basics, he had a bunch of swimming lessons (from an excellent coach) and in October he came out of the water at IM Barcelona (4-5ft swell, by no means an easy swim) in 1:18.00. This year I'm going to have to work hard so that he doesn't beat me out of the water!!

He now loves OW swimming - got back from an Ibiza holiday last year and the first thing he said was "the swimming was AMAZING!".

You've got heaps of time - surprise yourself thumbup

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Friday 15th January 2016
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ED209 said:
My wife has kindly entered me in a 70.3 event in spetember as part of my christmas present. Nice of her but a bit ambitious since i have never ever swam in open water (its a sea swim) and i have only ever done one go-tri event before.
Worth finding a good coach and get some lessons in Open Water. You need to build confidence and having a coach will help in both that there is someone there with you and also there some techniques they can show you to help.

I would also try and do a couple of sea swims if you can as it is quite different.

Last year I went mad on OW swimming and had a few races lined up. I war regularly clocking 5k in OW and felt fully prepared. I had entered a 3KM sea swim. When I arrived the sea looked perfectly flat, but by the time the race started it was quite choppy. I'm very tall and have a long stroke, which is not good in choppy water. I really struggled, both with the chop and also the salt water which burned my throat and made my lips sore. Not trying to put you off but make sure you are used to sea swimming before your event.

Also don't rush down there day 1 the lake opens this year. Lakes usually open when the water is 12 degrees C. That is fking cold and likely to be colder than your sea swim will be. It will put you off. There is a huge difference between 12 and 16. Having said that dont wait too long, some shallow lakes cn reach 20-22 quite easily and that is way warmer than the sea will be.

ED209

5,740 posts

243 months

Friday 15th January 2016
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944fan said:
ED209 said:
My wife has kindly entered me in a 70.3 event in spetember as part of my christmas present. Nice of her but a bit ambitious since i have never ever swam in open water (its a sea swim) and i have only ever done one go-tri event before.
Worth finding a good coach and get some lessons in Open Water. You need to build confidence and having a coach will help in both that there is someone there with you and also there some techniques they can show you to help.

I would also try and do a couple of sea swims if you can as it is quite different.

Last year I went mad on OW swimming and had a few races lined up. I war regularly clocking 5k in OW and felt fully prepared. I had entered a 3KM sea swim. When I arrived the sea looked perfectly flat, but by the time the race started it was quite choppy. I'm very tall and have a long stroke, which is not good in choppy water. I really struggled, both with the chop and also the salt water which burned my throat and made my lips sore. Not trying to put you off but make sure you are used to sea swimming before your event.

Also don't rush down there day 1 the lake opens this year. Lakes usually open when the water is 12 degrees C. That is fking cold and likely to be colder than your sea swim will be. It will put you off. There is a huge difference between 12 and 16. Having said that dont wait too long, some shallow lakes cn reach 20-22 quite easily and that is way warmer than the sea will be.
How much difference in buoyancy does a wetsuit give you? In the pool i can swim a mile using a pull buoy. My kicking is crap and without i basically drag my legs. Will the wetsuit help?

Another thing that has concerned me about the race she has entered me in is that its a big tide that day, the tidal pull will be quite strong and could make things more difficult.


ED209

5,740 posts

243 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
944fan said:
ED209 said:
My wife has kindly entered me in a 70.3 event in spetember as part of my christmas present. Nice of her but a bit ambitious since i have never ever swam in open water (its a sea swim) and i have only ever done one go-tri event before.
Worth finding a good coach and get some lessons in Open Water. You need to build confidence and having a coach will help in both that there is someone there with you and also there some techniques they can show you to help.

I would also try and do a couple of sea swims if you can as it is quite different.

Last year I went mad on OW swimming and had a few races lined up. I war regularly clocking 5k in OW and felt fully prepared. I had entered a 3KM sea swim. When I arrived the sea looked perfectly flat, but by the time the race started it was quite choppy. I'm very tall and have a long stroke, which is not good in choppy water. I really struggled, both with the chop and also the salt water which burned my throat and made my lips sore. Not trying to put you off but make sure you are used to sea swimming before your event.

Also don't rush down there day 1 the lake opens this year. Lakes usually open when the water is 12 degrees C. That is fking cold and likely to be colder than your sea swim will be. It will put you off. There is a huge difference between 12 and 16. Having said that dont wait too long, some shallow lakes cn reach 20-22 quite easily and that is way warmer than the sea will be.
How much difference in buoyancy does a wetsuit give you? In the pool i can swim a mile using a pull buoy. My kicking is crap and without i basically drag my legs. Will the wetsuit help?

Another thing that has concerned me about the race she has entered me in is that its a big tide that day, the tidal pull will be quite strong and could make things more difficult.

If i can do the swim i wold be fairly confident of at least finishing. I managed a marathon last year in 3hrs 44mins and i recon i could walk a half if i had to in order to finish.


Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
ED209 said:
How much difference in buoyancy does a wetsuit give you? In the pool i can swim a mile using a pull buoy. My kicking is crap and without i basically drag my legs. Will the wetsuit help?

Another thing that has concerned me about the race she has entered me in is that its a big tide that day, the tidal pull will be quite strong and could make things more difficult.
LOADS!

I presume you're going to get/rent an entry level suit. BlueSeventy Fusion or similar (I must get rid of my old one) Entry level suits have more buoyancy in the thighs than ones for more experienced swimmers for precisely the reason that Triathletes tend to have muscly legs (re: HEAVY) so need the suit to counteract this. You will be more level in the water and will swim faster as a result.

I've got a Huub 3/5 which is kind of mid level ability (different buoyancy in the legs than the torso) and they also do a 4/4 Which is aimed at The Brownlees biggrin


Tides or Water swell are something I'd never experienced until last year. Albeit Windsor is in the Thames but that's just with or against you. Not back n forth or round and round. It's disconcerting, and can make you feel a bit ill. So try and be prepared for it. Accept it will happen and keep turning your arms over.

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Saturday 16th January 2016
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ED209 said:
How much difference in buoyancy does a wetsuit give you? In the pool i can swim a mile using a pull buoy. My kicking is crap and without i basically drag my legs. Will the wetsuit help?

Another thing that has concerned me about the race she has entered me in is that its a big tide that day, the tidal pull will be quite strong and could make things more difficult.

If i can do the swim i wold be fairly confident of at least finishing. I managed a marathon last year in 3hrs 44mins and i recon i could walk a half if i had to in order to finish.
As Rich has said the wetsuit will make you much more buoyant and faster. It will keep your legs up and also keep your whole body higher in the water. Again as Rich said get an entry level one with thicker neoprene in the legs. However, you should work on your kick. Many people think that Triatheletes don't need to kick but that's bks. Forget a kickboard, best drill for working on a good flutter kick is "side kick":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKGFATUfdkw

You say your legs drag, this could be because your head is too high in the water. Think about your head position when you are swimming. When you turn to breathe you want a split screen on your goggles (i.e. one goggle above water one below). Lifting your head to much will cause your legs to sink.

You need to build your confidence in OW and that comes from doing it a lot. Find a good open water venue near you. I see you are in Durham so can't recommend any up there. Most OW swim venues will also have wetsuit hire. I would recommend trying a few and then hire (or buy) one for the full season. That way you will be used to it. As I said before get in the sea a few times before as well. It is quite different to a lake.

Regarding the tidal pull it is something you can't do much about. It will depend on the course but if you have some with the tide and some against I would recommend taking it nice and easy when you are with the tide. It can be tempting to go flying but you are better off taking the benefit and resting to preserve energy for when you are against it. If there is a lot of swell or chop you are better switching to a shorter swinging style stroke. This is where I struggle in the sea, I have a very long stroke, being 6'5'' and 6'8'' arm span and struggle to shorten it in the sea.

As I start above I recommend finding a good swimming/tri coach. Most will do swim clinics where they will look at your technique, maybe film it and then give you drills to correct what;'s wrong. Before I saw a coach I couldn't swim two lengths. Within a couple of years I was going a 6 minute 400m TT.

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Monday 18th January 2016
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I didn't do any Tri stuff last year and just focussed on swimming. That went horribly wrong when I got a serious eye infection and couldn't swim for months. I should have switched to cycling or running but instead sat around sulking that I couldn't swim and got fat.

Anyway going to mix it up this year. Decided I am doing a half ironman this summer. Probably The Cowman at Emberton, its pretty flat bike and the run is flat, plus its very close to me.

Getting a full training plan from my coach. The swim I wont have any problem with, the bike I think will be ok, will just be a matter of how fast I can get. Run is a worry. I have very, very flat feet so need to be careful. Going to build slowly and get a couple of days rest between runs. Got orthotics which help so just need to be careful.

I currently have a 2 hour commute each day but my office is moving to 6 miles away in 2 weeks and it has a shower so that will be good. Be able to combine commuting with cycling/running and can also go out a lunch for runs or take my bike and cycle.

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Monday 25th January 2016
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First ride in over a year this weekend. Now got a dinosaur rear end - a Mega Sore-arse

Changed my saddle last year for a charge spoon as everyone said they were the most comfortable. Guess I need some Kms in the my arse and legs.

Was very slow on the hills. Really need to lose some weight, lost 5 pounds already

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Monday 25th January 2016
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It's not clear if you have a TT bike or Road bike.

I would recommend getting a Retul bike fit done. And look at maybe changing your seat if it doesn't become comfortable after a few rides. I personally went to a ISM Adamo Attack saddle, which is far comfier for long distances, since the slot reduces pressure on the perineum (gooch)

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
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Rich_W said:
It's not clear if you have a TT bike or Road bike.

I would recommend getting a Retul bike fit done. And look at maybe changing your seat if it doesn't become comfortable after a few rides. I personally went to a ISM Adamo Attack saddle, which is far comfier for long distances, since the slot reduces pressure on the perineum (gooch)
I have both but this was on the roadie. I think it is just because I haven't been on it for so long, 18 months ago I was comfortably doing 50 miles + .

Been looking at a bike fit. Not sure whether to just get the TT bike done or both.

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
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Which one are you planning on racing?

Remember to mention you're doing Tri and what distance, so they can set it accordingly. Probably not super aggressive position wise since you have to run.

ewenm

28,506 posts

244 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
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It's popping up a lot on Facebook at the moment but worth repeating if you haven't seen it. In the Ironman 70.3 South Africa at the weekend Brit Susie Cheetham crashed hard towards the end of the bike, spent 20mins in the medical tent, got back on and finished the bike and run to take 8th placed pro. Then it was straight to hospital, and surgery on a broken elbow! Pretty hardcore! She's local to me and was always a liability on the corners when we did running training together but nothing like this bike crash!

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Wednesday 27th January 2016
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Rich_W said:
Which one are you planning on racing?

Remember to mention you're doing Tri and what distance, so they can set it accordingly. Probably not super aggressive position wise since you have to run.
The Cowman Emberton. Half iron distance.

dangerousB

Original Poster:

1,693 posts

189 months

Wednesday 27th January 2016
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944fan said:
First ride in over a year this weekend. Now got a dinosaur rear end - a Mega Sore-arse

Changed my saddle last year for a charge spoon as everyone said they were the most comfortable. Guess I need some Kms in the my arse and legs.
My first four or five rides of the year always leave me with a sore arse! You've just got to get those k's in though and it's soon forgotten about . . . 4 or 5 rides and I'm totally fine for 5hrs+.
Like Rich_W, I'm an ISM Adamo fan - got their "Road" saddle and it was worth every penny.

Should have got those rides in already this year, but have been sidelined for 10 days with a virulent dose of man flu. I'm on day 2 of almost feeling human again, so fingers crossed, it should be business as usual next week (I sincerely hope so anyway!) thumbup

ewenm said:
It's popping up a lot on Facebook at the moment but worth repeating if you haven't seen it. In the Ironman 70.3 South Africa at the weekend Brit Susie Cheetham crashed hard towards the end of the bike, spent 20mins in the medical tent, got back on and finished the bike and run to take 8th placed pro. Then it was straight to hospital, and surgery on a broken elbow! Pretty hardcore! She's local to me and was always a liability on the corners when we did running training together but nothing like this bike crash!
Wow, hadn't heard that, cheers Ewen. Fair play to her, can't be comfortable riding in a TT position (or running for that matter) with a busted elbow!!! Great attitude biggrin

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Wednesday 27th January 2016
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944fan said:
Rich_W said:
Which one are you planning on racing?

Remember to mention you're doing Tri and what distance, so they can set it accordingly. Probably not super aggressive position wise since you have to run.
The Cowman Emberton. Half iron distance.
Sorry. I meant which bike. laugh TT or Road. Since that's the one to get Retul'ed. Though you may find the fitter does a deal like "Buy 1 fit get another half price" for 2 bikes

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
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Rich_W said:
944fan said:
Rich_W said:
Which one are you planning on racing?

Remember to mention you're doing Tri and what distance, so they can set it accordingly. Probably not super aggressive position wise since you have to run.
The Cowman Emberton. Half iron distance.
Sorry. I meant which bike. laugh TT or Road. Since that's the one to get Retul'ed. Though you may find the fitter does a deal like "Buy 1 fit get another half price" for 2 bikes
Oh whoops. Yes will probably race with the TT bike. The course is a little bit up and down but no massive hills so think that will be the better bike.

briangriffin

1,570 posts

167 months

Monday 22nd February 2016
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For those who've done Ironman Wales, I'm wondering which training plan to follow to hit a specific time/aim.

Looking at Don Fink's plans and wondering whether to go intermediate or competitive plan. I'm hoping to go sub 13.5 hrs i'm not going to lose to much sleep if I didn't achieve this though.

Swimming as i've mentioned on here before is going to be my downfall and just getting out of the water is number priority. I'm not coming into a plan from nothing, I'm relatively fit at present can probably run a flat half marathon at around the 8 min/mile mark and maintain an average 16mph over 40 or so miles on the bike on the welsh terrain if this is of any relevance.

Time isn't to big a deal as I work shift so any plan has to be slightly altered to work around this.

Dimski

2,099 posts

198 months

Monday 22nd February 2016
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I did Wales and used Fink's plan, kind of somewhere in between the competitive and intermediate programs.

As I pushed the running, I did find myself with niggling pains which forced me to back off; the result was a slow marathon. I still came in under 13 and a half in total thanks to a good swim and ok bike split.

I didn't really worry about being diligent with the interval stuff, especially on the bike, I just did plenty of road miles with plenty of hills. Easily covered the hours and figured the hills gave me the interval training. My route into work is on a section of the IM Wales route. That helped. smile

drgav2005

960 posts

218 months

Friday 26th February 2016
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I used Fink's intermediate plan for my first IM in Austria and it got me round the course nicely. Like you, I was just aiming to get out of the water but actually rather enjoyed the swim on the day biggrin Just be as consistent as you can with your training and try not to miss too many sessions - if you do miss them, don't try to catch up... i.e. stick with and trust in the plan wink

944fan

4,962 posts

184 months

Sunday 28th February 2016
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briangriffin said:
For those who've done Ironman Wales, I'm wondering which training plan to follow to hit a specific time/aim.
Have you thought about getting a tailored plan for you? This is the chap I use http://www.greenlightpt.co.uk/online-coaching1.htm.... I have had plenty of 1-2-1 swimming sessions with him as well and they have been invaluable. I currently am working through one of his plans for a Half IM in July. You either go with the on line coaching where he loads sessions each week and reviews and changes them as you go. Or go with the static plan, you can tell him your current performances and goals and he tailor a plan specifically for that.