Divers? Anyone else?
Discussion
Just recently got back from Malta; my first diving trip and first proper dives in the sea (grand total of 13 dives now, woohoo). I had intended to do some dry suit training, AOW and deep, but found I consumed far too much air to have proceeded with the deep spec. Left the water after a safety stop with about 40 bar left, having shared with one of the instructors for the ascent from about 20-25m. Most disappointed, really annoyed actually, but clearly not up to it.
I need to get my own BCD, regs, etc and get some more dives under my belt.
I need to get my own BCD, regs, etc and get some more dives under my belt.
Tribal Chestnut said:
Just recently got back from Malta; my first diving trip and first proper dives in the sea (grand total of 13 dives now, woohoo). I had intended to do some dry suit training, AOW and deep, but found I consumed far too much air to have proceeded with the deep spec. Left the water after a safety stop with about 40 bar left, having shared with one of the instructors for the ascent from about 20-25m. Most disappointed, really annoyed actually, but clearly not up to it.
I need to get my own BCD, regs, etc and get some more dives under my belt.
Air consumption only gets better with experience. Unless you are lucky enough to be one of the few who seem to produce air the only answer is more diving.I need to get my own BCD, regs, etc and get some more dives under my belt.
I am a big lump and initially ploughed through 12l's of air in what seemed like a moment. Being comfortable in the water is the key to improving your consumption, besides time and experience you should check your weighting, too much weight carried means more drag as you inflate your BCD more to compensate. It is quite common for students to be overweighted during training so well worth a check.
Which agency did you learn with? PADI's advanced is not that brilliant though, depending on where and how you normally dive, it may offer some new experiences. If you plan to progress with PADI then it is a necessary hurdle on the way to rescue.
I can't talk about dry suit's as I live and dive in the sub tropics so a 5mm wetsuit covers winter diving and shorts with rash vest does in summer.
When you say deep spec do you mean the AOW specialty dive to max 30m or the deep diver card to 40m? Air consumption has less bearing upon dive time when going deeper than non deco times will. At 30m you have a max BT of 20 min and at 40m only 10 min. Even counting the increased SAC rates at depth you would be unlikely to use a whole cylinder in 20min + ascent/descent/SS. However, I have a bit of a soap box about PADI and deep ratings. They are quite happy to qualify divers with almost no experience to dive to depths where direct surface ascents can present difficulties. Only a personal choice but I won't dive beyond 15m without an independent air source. I am certain I can swim 15m without needing air, beyond that I make sure I carry sufficient back up systems.
As for your own kit I highly recommend it if you plan to keep diving. I find it much more comfortable using my own kit and I have it all set up to suit me. If you don't already have one get a dive computer first. When buying your kit the extra spend for Apeks regs is well worth it if deep diving is something you are interested in. The difference between a cheap rental reg and a decent Apeks at 40m is pronounced.
Thanks for the response P3.
A few people have mentioned that Rescue Diver is well worth doing, so it might be on the agenda for later in the year, but for now I just want to get out diving around the UK. Warmer waters would be nice, but with a daughter to look after I'd struggle to do anything more than a long weekend. She's doing a kiddie SSI course, so one day we'll be diving together.
papa3 said:
Air consumption only gets better with experience. Unless you are lucky enough to be one of the few who seem to produce air the only answer is more diving.
I am a big lump and initially ploughed through 12l's of air in what seemed like a moment. Being comfortable in the water is the key to improving your consumption, besides time and experience you should check your weighting, too much weight carried means more drag as you inflate your BCD more to compensate. It is quite common for students to be overweighted during training so well worth a check.
This is pretty much what I have been told - experience will result in air consumption dropping significantly. It was the one factor that I got a little anxious about, not that I might run out, but that I seemed to be consuming it at twice, or more, the rate of others. I thought that I was breathing pretty slowly, but obviously not. I did a couple of pre & post dive weight checks and was probably about 1kg heavy, but I was also faffing about with ankle weights for a while.I am a big lump and initially ploughed through 12l's of air in what seemed like a moment. Being comfortable in the water is the key to improving your consumption, besides time and experience you should check your weighting, too much weight carried means more drag as you inflate your BCD more to compensate. It is quite common for students to be overweighted during training so well worth a check.
papa3 said:
Which agency did you learn with? PADI's advanced is not that brilliant though, depending on where and how you normally dive, it may offer some new experiences. If you plan to progress with PADI then it is a necessary hurdle on the way to rescue.
I can't talk about dry suit's as I live and dive in the sub tropics so a 5mm wetsuit covers winter diving and shorts with rash vest does in summer.
Yes, it was PADI. I've heard mixed things about them, but the instructors that I have been with were, in my opinion, great. I'm not that fussed about progression, future courses, etc - I just want to dive and enjoy myself. I'm interested in further training to tackle the deeper, more technical side of things at some point, but that point is a long way off.I can't talk about dry suit's as I live and dive in the sub tropics so a 5mm wetsuit covers winter diving and shorts with rash vest does in summer.
A few people have mentioned that Rescue Diver is well worth doing, so it might be on the agenda for later in the year, but for now I just want to get out diving around the UK. Warmer waters would be nice, but with a daughter to look after I'd struggle to do anything more than a long weekend. She's doing a kiddie SSI course, so one day we'll be diving together.
papa3 said:
When you say deep spec do you mean the AOW specialty dive to max 30m or the deep diver card to 40m? Air consumption has less bearing upon dive time when going deeper than non deco times will. At 30m you have a max BT of 20 min and at 40m only 10 min. Even counting the increased SAC rates at depth you would be unlikely to use a whole cylinder in 20min + ascent/descent/SS. However, I have a bit of a soap box about PADI and deep ratings. They are quite happy to qualify divers with almost no experience to dive to depths where direct surface ascents can present difficulties. Only a personal choice but I won't dive beyond 15m without an independent air source. I am certain I can swim 15m without needing air, beyond that I make sure I carry sufficient back up systems.
It was the deep spec. for the 40m qual. On the first deep dive we descended to about 35m, did the 'look at how pressure changes things underwater' exercise and then ascended. Apparently I was on similar air to the other two doing the course when the ascent began, but then my consumption rate increased significantly. I think the main issue was a concern that I might not allow enough air to vent from my drysuit, resulting in an uncontrolled ascent, so I let too much out and had to put a lot more effort into finning back up. Evidently my buoyancy needs major work, but I do think my consumption is too high regardless.papa3 said:
As for your own kit I highly recommend it if you plan to keep diving. I find it much more comfortable using my own kit and I have it all set up to suit me. If you don't already have one get a dive computer first. When buying your kit the extra spend for Apeks regs is well worth it if deep diving is something you are interested in. The difference between a cheap rental reg and a decent Apeks at 40m is pronounced.
I have the basics (drysuit, fins, etc) & a computer, so am now going to be looking for the regs and BCD. Apeks regs seem to be highly regarded, so they will be on the shopping list, together with a BCD and weights. Any advice on BCDs? There's a lot of choice out there, without even considering wings, twin-sets, etc, etc.Tribal Chestnut said:
papa3 said:
Air consumption only gets better with experience. Unless you are lucky enough to be one of the few who seem to produce air the only answer is more diving.
I am a big lump and initially ploughed through 12l's of air in what seemed like a moment. Being comfortable in the water is the key to improving your consumption, besides time and experience you should check your weighting, too much weight carried means more drag as you inflate your BCD more to compensate. It is quite common for students to be overweighted during training so well worth a check.
This is pretty much what I have been told - experience will result in air consumption dropping significantly. It was the one factor that I got a little anxious about, not that I might run out, but that I seemed to be consuming it at twice, or more, the rate of others. I thought that I was breathing pretty slowly, but obviously not. I did a couple of pre & post dive weight checks and was probably about 1kg heavy, but I was also faffing about with ankle weights for a while.I am a big lump and initially ploughed through 12l's of air in what seemed like a moment. Being comfortable in the water is the key to improving your consumption, besides time and experience you should check your weighting, too much weight carried means more drag as you inflate your BCD more to compensate. It is quite common for students to be overweighted during training so well worth a check.
Tribal,
how many dives do you have? I ask not to say oh I have x you have y, but rather to say, all you write is really good and I understand you want more out of your tank in terms of time, however, everything will take time.
Now I am not delicate and at around 17stone I get 45 min from a 12 down to 30 mtr, but as you dive more you will relax and breathe in a more composed manner. do you know your surface consumption rate? Every time you dive with different kit you will have a different usage rate until you relax and diving almost becomes second nature.
May I suggest get dives under your belt rather than doing courses, find a local club or buddy and just dive, rescue is a good course if taught well, but that is quite a big if. Maybe the best thing to do is lots of dives so you know how to deal with yourself and your kit in many situations.
Sorry if this comes across as grumpy but my dive this morning was binned due to high winds and weather, so sat here miffed.
how many dives do you have? I ask not to say oh I have x you have y, but rather to say, all you write is really good and I understand you want more out of your tank in terms of time, however, everything will take time.
Now I am not delicate and at around 17stone I get 45 min from a 12 down to 30 mtr, but as you dive more you will relax and breathe in a more composed manner. do you know your surface consumption rate? Every time you dive with different kit you will have a different usage rate until you relax and diving almost becomes second nature.
May I suggest get dives under your belt rather than doing courses, find a local club or buddy and just dive, rescue is a good course if taught well, but that is quite a big if. Maybe the best thing to do is lots of dives so you know how to deal with yourself and your kit in many situations.
Sorry if this comes across as grumpy but my dive this morning was binned due to high winds and weather, so sat here miffed.
Morning chaps
I definitely think the buoyancy is a big, probably the major part of my problem.
As for number of dives, I've done 13 now, 4 up at Gildenburgh and the rest around Malta/Gozo.
The Rescue Diver course is one for later in the year potentially, but until then (if do it) I'll be aiming to get out each month for a couple of dives if I can.
I definitely think the buoyancy is a big, probably the major part of my problem.
As for number of dives, I've done 13 now, 4 up at Gildenburgh and the rest around Malta/Gozo.
The Rescue Diver course is one for later in the year potentially, but until then (if do it) I'll be aiming to get out each month for a couple of dives if I can.
Tribal Chestnut said:
Morning chaps
I definitely think the buoyancy is a big, probably the major part of my problem.
sorry to selectively quote you, if you think about it, it might become an issue, just take time and it will solve itself, the more time you dive in the same kit, the less changes and it will fall together.I definitely think the buoyancy is a big, probably the major part of my problem.
Every change you make to weight, yours and what you carry, the BCD you wear, drysuit or semi dry, everything will add up and have an affect on buoyancy.
Easy for me to say, try to do it as part of the dive not as a situation that must be perfect.
If you ever come far southwest, ping me and I'll share our sites.
Phud said:
sorry to selectively quote you, if you think about it, it might become an issue, just take time and it will solve itself, the more time you dive in the same kit, the less changes and it will fall together.
Every change you make to weight, yours and what you carry, the BCD you wear, drysuit or semi dry, everything will add up and have an affect on buoyancy.
Easy for me to say, try to do it as part of the dive not as a situation that must be perfect.
If you ever come far southwest, ping me and I'll share our sites.
Excellent, thanks. I'll more than likely take you up on that offer in time to come.Every change you make to weight, yours and what you carry, the BCD you wear, drysuit or semi dry, everything will add up and have an affect on buoyancy.
Easy for me to say, try to do it as part of the dive not as a situation that must be perfect.
If you ever come far southwest, ping me and I'll share our sites.
Tribal,
Like I said I have zero drysuit dives so can offer no wonderful insight on buoyancy specific to them. I don't know what your dive club set up is but if you are within 1KG you are more than close enough just now. Get some dives in then figure out the last margins. It is certainly better to be slightly over than under and as you settle into being in the water it will all become second nature. Are you diving steel or Alu cylinders?
Almost all all of my diving is with PADI, like you our instructors are superb and locally there is much less emphasis on the fabled PADI traditions of certifying every conceivable action. I didn't do my advanced until I had over 100 dives and regretted it as, by then, I had regularly undertaken all of the specialties. I am looking forward to Rescue which I start in 2 weeks and then onto DM (hopefully).
Air consumption will come, don't stress about it or you'll end up over thinking things. I went through a phase of trying to count kick cycles to breaths and actually worsened my SAC. In time you will become so focussed on what is around you that your breathing will settle down. Are you nervous/uptight on the surface before descending? Have a go at night diving, I always use much less air at night as I am forced to focus on only what is in my torch beam.
BCD's, like every piece of kit, is down to personal choice. Fit and comfort are critical and your dive shop or club should be able to let you try a few different styles. If you don't intend to fly with your kit then size and weight matter less. Integrated weights have their benefits but the pouches can be expensive if damaged or lost. Make sure what you buy will work for the diving you plan to do. I bought this after qualifying and love it. It is solid and well made and has sufficient "D" rings for lights, camera's, pony etc.
After a few months I decided longer dives were of interest so purchased twins and a wing. Had I thought about it longer before purchasing I could have saved money on the BCD as my wing has a single adapter. That said I prefer the BCD with a pony unless I am going into overheads, just for comfort. I started out, as I am sure most do, with a basic set up of BCD, reg and soft kit. My garage now looks like a dive shop with cylinders, regs and god know how many lights. What computer did you go for? I have been hankering after the Xdeep Black Eanx.
Like I said I have zero drysuit dives so can offer no wonderful insight on buoyancy specific to them. I don't know what your dive club set up is but if you are within 1KG you are more than close enough just now. Get some dives in then figure out the last margins. It is certainly better to be slightly over than under and as you settle into being in the water it will all become second nature. Are you diving steel or Alu cylinders?
Almost all all of my diving is with PADI, like you our instructors are superb and locally there is much less emphasis on the fabled PADI traditions of certifying every conceivable action. I didn't do my advanced until I had over 100 dives and regretted it as, by then, I had regularly undertaken all of the specialties. I am looking forward to Rescue which I start in 2 weeks and then onto DM (hopefully).
Air consumption will come, don't stress about it or you'll end up over thinking things. I went through a phase of trying to count kick cycles to breaths and actually worsened my SAC. In time you will become so focussed on what is around you that your breathing will settle down. Are you nervous/uptight on the surface before descending? Have a go at night diving, I always use much less air at night as I am forced to focus on only what is in my torch beam.
BCD's, like every piece of kit, is down to personal choice. Fit and comfort are critical and your dive shop or club should be able to let you try a few different styles. If you don't intend to fly with your kit then size and weight matter less. Integrated weights have their benefits but the pouches can be expensive if damaged or lost. Make sure what you buy will work for the diving you plan to do. I bought this after qualifying and love it. It is solid and well made and has sufficient "D" rings for lights, camera's, pony etc.
After a few months I decided longer dives were of interest so purchased twins and a wing. Had I thought about it longer before purchasing I could have saved money on the BCD as my wing has a single adapter. That said I prefer the BCD with a pony unless I am going into overheads, just for comfort. I started out, as I am sure most do, with a basic set up of BCD, reg and soft kit. My garage now looks like a dive shop with cylinders, regs and god know how many lights. What computer did you go for? I have been hankering after the Xdeep Black Eanx.
Edited by papa3 on Monday 30th March 19:23
papa3 said:
Tribal,
Like I said I have zero drysuit dives so can offer no wonderful insight on buoyancy specific to them. I don't know what your dive club set up is but if you are within 1KG you are more than close enough just now. Get some dives in then figure out the last margins. It is certainly better to be slightly over than under and as you settle into being in the water it will all become second nature. Are you diving steel or Alu cylinders?
Steel to date, 12 & 15l. Like I said I have zero drysuit dives so can offer no wonderful insight on buoyancy specific to them. I don't know what your dive club set up is but if you are within 1KG you are more than close enough just now. Get some dives in then figure out the last margins. It is certainly better to be slightly over than under and as you settle into being in the water it will all become second nature. Are you diving steel or Alu cylinders?
papa3 said:
Almost all all of my diving is with PADI, like you our instructors are superb and locally there is much less emphasis on the fabled PADI traditions of certifying every conceivable action. I didn't do my advanced until I had over 100 dives and regretted it as, by then, I had regularly undertaken all of the specialties. I am looking forward to Rescue which I start in 2 weeks and then onto DM (hopefully).
Air consumption will come, don't stress about it or you'll end up over thinking things. I went through a phase of trying to count kick cycles to breaths and actually worsened my SAC. In time you will become so focussed on what is around you that your breathing will settle down. Are you nervous/uptight on the surface before descending? Have a go at night diving, I always use much less air at night as I am forced to focus on only what is in my torch beam.
I felt fairly relaxed, but with some obvious apprehension due to a to this all being fairly new, together with a little concern over buoyancy & air consumption. More experience should/will lead to substantial improvements. I did a night dive in Malta which was absolutely tremendous. Air consumption will come, don't stress about it or you'll end up over thinking things. I went through a phase of trying to count kick cycles to breaths and actually worsened my SAC. In time you will become so focussed on what is around you that your breathing will settle down. Are you nervous/uptight on the surface before descending? Have a go at night diving, I always use much less air at night as I am forced to focus on only what is in my torch beam.
papa3 said:
BCD's, like every piece of kit, is down to personal choice. Fit and comfort are critical and your dive shop or club should be able to let you try a few different styles. If you don't intend to fly with your kit then size and weight matter less. Integrated weights have their benefits but the pouches can be expensive if damaged or lost. Make sure what you buy will work for the diving you plan to do. I bought this after qualifying and love it. It is solid and well made and has sufficient "D" rings for lights, camera's, pony etc.
After a few months I decided longer dives were of interest so purchased twins and a wing. Had I thought about it longer before purchasing I could have saved money on the BCD as my wing has a single adapter. That said I prefer the BCD with a pony unless I am going into overheads, just for comfort. I started out, as I am sure most do, with a basic set up of BCD, reg and soft kit. My garage now looks like a dive shop with cylinders, regs and god know how many lights. What computer did you go for? I have been hankering after the Xdeep Black Eanx.
My computer is a Suunto Vyper Air. I've read a fair amount of wing v BCD stuff, but I'll probably stick with the BCD until I'm more experienced, one less thing to worry about and learn. I've got a few on my shortlist now.After a few months I decided longer dives were of interest so purchased twins and a wing. Had I thought about it longer before purchasing I could have saved money on the BCD as my wing has a single adapter. That said I prefer the BCD with a pony unless I am going into overheads, just for comfort. I started out, as I am sure most do, with a basic set up of BCD, reg and soft kit. My garage now looks like a dive shop with cylinders, regs and god know how many lights. What computer did you go for? I have been hankering after the Xdeep Black Eanx.
Edited by papa3 on Monday 30th March 19:23
I was supposed to head up to Gildenburgh quarry today, but car problems have prevented me, which is bloody disappointing.
I've only dived with the PADI lot that I trained with to date, so I'm planning on checking out some of the local BSAC clubs to get more experience/do some more training.
I was on the Sound of Mull over the weekend - three days on the Gaelic Rose - total number of dives - zero! 
We were planning to arrive in Oban early on Thursday so we could steam out to Lochaline straight away. The idea being we can jump off the boat at the pontoons and have a quick dip on arrival. This means we can do a weight check, but also there is the chance of finding scallops. One of the lads' Landrover blew a turbo hose as soon as they set off, meaning three of them wouldn't arrive until late at night, so we had to stay in Oban that night.
When we returned to the boat, I got a whiff of somebody's kebab and suddenly felt hungry. I decided to go ashore again and get one for myself. On returning, I climbed down the ladder carrying the carrier bag between my teeth. The boat was moored against another, so I had to walk across the deck and onto ours. As I put my foot on the gunwale, it slipped and went down between the two boats, leaving me clinging onto the ladder on the side of our boat and holding onto the kebab with my teeth. Fortunately one of my mates was on the deck and was able to grab the kebab, allowing me to haul myself up.
In the morning, my foot was throbbing. I had bent my toes back and couldn't get my shoes on. This meant I couldn't get into my drysuit either!
Despite this, I still had a great weekend. We got a night in Tobermory and then back to Oban the following night (Lochaline was the plan, but the weather forecast was bad for the Sunday, so we had to be back in Oban.
I have posted earlier in this thread about the same trip in 2012 - that time I was able to say something about the diving. I thought I would use the opportunity to remind people the Sound of Mull offers some great diving, and again to recommend the Gaelic Rose.
The Gaelic rose is an old fishing boat that has been converted into a dive boat. It operates as a livaboard and sleeps 12 divers. The best thing about the boat has always been the food - Lee is a trained chef and trained skipper, so he takes care of the cooking as well as assisting Bob, who is the owner/skipper. Upon arrival, we found out Bob was not there. Lee has been skippering most of the season as Bob has family commitments. I was disappointed to see him in the wheelhouse instead of the kitchen, but fortunately, Steve has taken over that roll, and the food was again amazing.
http://www.gaelicrose.com/
We were planning to arrive in Oban early on Thursday so we could steam out to Lochaline straight away. The idea being we can jump off the boat at the pontoons and have a quick dip on arrival. This means we can do a weight check, but also there is the chance of finding scallops. One of the lads' Landrover blew a turbo hose as soon as they set off, meaning three of them wouldn't arrive until late at night, so we had to stay in Oban that night.
When we returned to the boat, I got a whiff of somebody's kebab and suddenly felt hungry. I decided to go ashore again and get one for myself. On returning, I climbed down the ladder carrying the carrier bag between my teeth. The boat was moored against another, so I had to walk across the deck and onto ours. As I put my foot on the gunwale, it slipped and went down between the two boats, leaving me clinging onto the ladder on the side of our boat and holding onto the kebab with my teeth. Fortunately one of my mates was on the deck and was able to grab the kebab, allowing me to haul myself up.
In the morning, my foot was throbbing. I had bent my toes back and couldn't get my shoes on. This meant I couldn't get into my drysuit either!
Despite this, I still had a great weekend. We got a night in Tobermory and then back to Oban the following night (Lochaline was the plan, but the weather forecast was bad for the Sunday, so we had to be back in Oban.
I have posted earlier in this thread about the same trip in 2012 - that time I was able to say something about the diving. I thought I would use the opportunity to remind people the Sound of Mull offers some great diving, and again to recommend the Gaelic Rose.
The Gaelic rose is an old fishing boat that has been converted into a dive boat. It operates as a livaboard and sleeps 12 divers. The best thing about the boat has always been the food - Lee is a trained chef and trained skipper, so he takes care of the cooking as well as assisting Bob, who is the owner/skipper. Upon arrival, we found out Bob was not there. Lee has been skippering most of the season as Bob has family commitments. I was disappointed to see him in the wheelhouse instead of the kitchen, but fortunately, Steve has taken over that roll, and the food was again amazing.
http://www.gaelicrose.com/
Edited by Ganglandboss on Tuesday 2nd June 18:33
Ganglandboss said:
When we returned to the boat, I got a whiff of somebody's kebab and suddenly felt hungry. I decided to go ashore again and get one for myself. On returning, I climbed down the ladder carrying the carrier bag between my teeth. The boat was moored against another, so I had to walk across the deck and onto ours. As I put my foot on the gunwale, it slipped and went down between the two boats, leaving me clinging onto the ladder on the side of our boat and holding onto the kebab with my teeth. Fortunately one of my mates was on the deck and was able to grab the kebab, allowing me to haul myself up.
You are my new hero. Kebab saved at significant risk to yourself!Edited by Ganglandboss on Tuesday 2nd June 18:33
Shame about the diving though.
Our diving has slowed down slightly as the weather is heading towards what passes for winter here. Water is hovering around 22 but so is the air temp. Much more accustomed to 30c on the surface to dry the shorty off.
On the last two dives, one of them at night on a wreck, we have encountered Devil Rays. The sight of the rays in your torch beam is truly gob smacking. One of them was by far the largest ray I have seen, I'd guess 5-6m across the wings.
www.facebook.com/divesthelena some of the ray pics on the LDS facebook page and a pic of our early morning fishing trip last week.
Plan to dive Thursday and Saturday this week and a 40m war wreck next week, fingers crossed.
Our weekly Saturday am dive yesterday was on the RFA Darkdale just off James Bay.
Torpedoed whilst at anchor in 1941 with the loss of 41 crew she still holds between 2500 and 5000 m3 of bunker fuel.
The upper surface, the starboard side of the hull, lies in 30-33m dipping down to the prop at 40m and the deepest point is 47m. Yesterday we stopped at 33m, previously I have been to the prop and I plan to do the full length at the bottom in a few weeks time.
Torpedoed whilst at anchor in 1941 with the loss of 41 crew she still holds between 2500 and 5000 m3 of bunker fuel.
The upper surface, the starboard side of the hull, lies in 30-33m dipping down to the prop at 40m and the deepest point is 47m. Yesterday we stopped at 33m, previously I have been to the prop and I plan to do the full length at the bottom in a few weeks time.
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