The Rowing Thread!
Discussion
louiebaby said:
johnfm said:
He doesn't play any sport (I don't know why??) but is already about 6'1" and a rowing machine will be something he can 'master' - as it isn't as steep a learning curve as hitting a golf ball or playing tennis.
You say that, but there is a lot of technique to using one in a way that best replicates what works to make a boat move.Also, be aware of injuries that you can develop through terrible technique. I've had to call gym staff over to other users because I've been scared for their backs before now. I think it's a bit rude to interrupt someone training, but when they're likely to REALLY hurt themselves, I can't walk away from it.
rhinochopig said:
Gym staff are some of the worst culprits IME.
Oh they are, without a doubt. But it is easier for them to approach a gym using Muppet, rather than some soaked with sweat, ranting, lycra clad giant. With a Northern(ish) accent, in London. (That's me.)I always offer to sit with them and discuss it, but they are yet to take me up on my offer.
louiebaby said:
johnfm said:
He doesn't play any sport (I don't know why??) but is already about 6'1" and a rowing machine will be something he can 'master' - as it isn't as steep a learning curve as hitting a golf ball or playing tennis.
You say that, but there is a lot of technique to using one in a way that best replicates what works to make a boat move.Also, be aware of injuries that you can develop through terrible technique. I've had to call gym staff over to other users because I've been scared for their backs before now. I think it's a bit rude to interrupt someone training, but when they're likely to REALLY hurt themselves, I can't walk away from it.
But I think even the staunchest defender of rowing would concede that there is a steeper learning curve to have a half decent game of tennis or golf.
He has shown he hasn't the patience to work at stuff that needs lots of practice - he just wants to 'do' - so will enjoy rowing more as he can start straight away and set simple targets of distance or time.
I don't think he will like the pain...
johnfm said:
louiebaby said:
johnfm said:
He doesn't play any sport (I don't know why??) but is already about 6'1" and a rowing machine will be something he can 'master' - as it isn't as steep a learning curve as hitting a golf ball or playing tennis.
You say that, but there is a lot of technique to using one in a way that best replicates what works to make a boat move.Also, be aware of injuries that you can develop through terrible technique. I've had to call gym staff over to other users because I've been scared for their backs before now. I think it's a bit rude to interrupt someone training, but when they're likely to REALLY hurt themselves, I can't walk away from it.
But I think even the staunchest defender of rowing would concede that there is a steeper learning curve to have a half decent game of tennis or golf.
e has shown he hasn't the patience to work at stuff that needs lots of practice - he just wants to 'do' - so will enjoy rowing more as he can start straight away and set simple targets of distance or time.
I don't think he will like the pain...
The problem with rowing when compared to games like tennis / football / rugby is that in these sports you can be an old fat git with good skills and still make a good stab at playing. The knowledge gained from playing for years will give you enough of an edge to out-smart your younger opponents. With rowing there really is no hiding place when it comes to technique and fitness, because if you're unfit, you technique goes to pot no matter how good you were, and you can be ultra-fit - pulling sub 6 2k times - and have your arse handed to you on a plate by school boys who do 7:30 tk times.
I had a year off from rowing between my first degree and doing my MSc and in my first race back I was utter s
te, despite being a reasonable technical rower during my first degree. johnfm said:
How the &*^% to people row 2k under 7 minutes?
Never done one in over 7 minutes to be honest. 
That said, the times you pull on a water rower can't be compared to a Concept II directly, although will provide a proxy.
Some Radio 1 DJ lost a lot of weight on a rowing machine and called it a "Weapon of Mass Reduction." He's right, good on ya for getting one!
rhinochopig said:
louiebaby said:
johnfm said:
He doesn't play any sport (I don't know why??) but is already about 6'1" and a rowing machine will be something he can 'master' - as it isn't as steep a learning curve as hitting a golf ball or playing tennis.
You say that, but there is a lot of technique to using one in a way that best replicates what works to make a boat move.Also, be aware of injuries that you can develop through terrible technique. I've had to call gym staff over to other users because I've been scared for their backs before now. I think it's a bit rude to interrupt someone training, but when they're likely to REALLY hurt themselves, I can't walk away from it.
Just rowed my first 2k.
8' 05"
I know I can get under 8, but cannot see myself getting under 7.30 any time soon.
Interesting for me was my weaknesses:
My lower abs started to feel it about 3 minutes in.
My legs were utterly useless shortly thereafter - and trying to stand or walk was pointless.
Cardio was fine, as was the arms/back etc.
8' 05"
I know I can get under 8, but cannot see myself getting under 7.30 any time soon.
Interesting for me was my weaknesses:
My lower abs started to feel it about 3 minutes in.
My legs were utterly useless shortly thereafter - and trying to stand or walk was pointless.
Cardio was fine, as was the arms/back etc.
- Aware that 8' 05" may not remotely correlate to 8' 05" on a C2 btw.
In the 1970s the Gjessing-Nilson ergometer from Norway used a friction brake mechanism with industrial strapping applied over the broad rim of the flywheel. Weights hanging from the strap ensured that an adjustable and predictable friction could be calculated. The cord from the handle mechanism ran over a helical pulley with varying radius, thereby adjusting the gearing and speed of the handle in a similar way to the changing mechanical gearing of the oar through the stroke, derived from changes in oar angle and other factors. This machine was for many years the internationally accepted standard for measurement.
Acts like there is no flywheel at all. Every stroke is like the first one, so it is very hard just to "tap it along".
We used them for national trials.
=====================
Acts like there is no flywheel at all. Every stroke is like the first one, so it is very hard just to "tap it along".
We used them for national trials.
HowMuchLonger said:
In the 1970s the Gjessing-Nilson ergometer from Norway used a friction brake mechanism with industrial strapping applied over the broad rim of the flywheel. Weights hanging from the strap ensured that an adjustable and predictable friction could be calculated. The cord from the handle mechanism ran over a helical pulley with varying radius, thereby adjusting the gearing and speed of the handle in a similar way to the changing mechanical gearing of the oar through the stroke, derived from changes in oar angle and other factors. This machine was for many years the internationally accepted standard for measurement.
Acts like there is no flywheel at all. Every stroke is like the first one, so it is very hard just to "tap it along".
We used them for national trials.
Sound evil.=====================
Acts like there is no flywheel at all. Every stroke is like the first one, so it is very hard just to "tap it along".
We used them for national trials.
The final project for my first degree in the early 90s - industrial design - was a rowing simulator. I was pleased to see that someone went on and built one almost the same as my design.
The big difference was that mine had twin horizontal fans as opposed to a single, situated at the bottom of the oar pillars. It showed power profile through the stroke for diagnostic purposes so that a coach could check that everyone had the same drive profile. It also had strain gauges mounted in a balanced seat so that lateral balance of the rower could be measured too; this gave the coach ability to compare relative balance between crew members.
HowMuchLonger said:
rhinochopig said:
The final project for my first degree in the early 90s - industrial design - was a rowing simulator. I was pleased to see that someone went on and built one almost the same as my design.
Any more details of your design (cost per unit etc)The oartech kit is as good if not better in engineering terms, but I am surprised that the diagnostic concepts that I proposed in my design have not seen their way onto the C2 and similar. The stroke power profile idea was something that I have seen cause problems in every club I've ever rowed at. The other clever thing it would have done is show a blade profile as well so that you could check blade heights, feather point, and entry and exit points.
Visually it looked like a C2 slide, with a different seat that could flex laterally so balance could be measured. At both ends of the slide, the outrigger frames were attached and at what would be the oarlocks was a tower that supported the fan and the oarlocks. The fan was driven by a planetary gearbox or, a second concept, used a longer 'oar' with the fan drive attached at the end - similar to the attached vid.
I couldn't afford at the time to build the prototype so it was not possible to determine whether a planetary gbox would have given the correct 'feel' in the stroke. Hence the less preferred option would have been quite bulky. The market is saturated these days and due to its niche nature there is little profit in a new design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pv3DWUwaUQ
One thing I do like though and would to try is Shimano's new rowing kit. They have a very clever shoe / strecther design that I find quite exciting as rowing as been largely static over the last 20 years in technology terms. Of course this may or may not be a good thing. I can still remember the thrill of paddling my first carbon boat though. An ex-olympic 8 Empacher [sp?] I'd still love a fine wood scull though - pure art.
Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 5th March 15:38
rhinochopig said:
Thanks for that, I've not seen that before...Rowing sucked up large amounts of my life at uni - however being the very antithisis of the PH stereotype I was a cox rather than a rower (although I do enjoy going out in a scull every now and again).
The shortage of coxes at our place was insane - crews would often train 2-3 times a week but becasue I was doubling up it was reasonably common for me to be on the water 5 days a week!
I stayed pretty active in a local club for a while afterwards as a cox/coach (did my Lvl 2 coaching award) but the last few years I haven't done any as work just sort of took over
Really should get back down!
The shortage of coxes at our place was insane - crews would often train 2-3 times a week but becasue I was doubling up it was reasonably common for me to be on the water 5 days a week!
I stayed pretty active in a local club for a while afterwards as a cox/coach (did my Lvl 2 coaching award) but the last few years I haven't done any as work just sort of took over
Really should get back down!
HowMuchLonger said:
In the 1970s the Gjessing-Nilson ergometer from Norway used a friction brake mechanism with industrial strapping applied over the broad rim of the flywheel. Weights hanging from the strap ensured that an adjustable and predictable friction could be calculated. The cord from the handle mechanism ran over a helical pulley with varying radius, thereby adjusting the gearing and speed of the handle in a similar way to the changing mechanical gearing of the oar through the stroke, derived from changes in oar angle and other factors. This machine was for many years the internationally accepted standard for measurement.
Acts like there is no flywheel at all. Every stroke is like the first one, so it is very hard just to "tap it along".
We used them for national trials.
We used them for Cambridge trials in 1986 and 1987. The lack of any return momentum on the handle made it very odd. You also had no idea of your progress, so you just had to go hell for leather from the first stroke.=====================
Acts like there is no flywheel at all. Every stroke is like the first one, so it is very hard just to "tap it along".
We used them for national trials.
Zod said:
We used them for Cambridge trials in 1986 and 1987. The lack of any return momentum on the handle made it very odd. You also had no idea of your progress, so you just had to go hell for leather from the first stroke.
Did you have Donald (Leggate) as a coach (red faced/drunk).louiebaby said:
johnfm said:
How the &*^% to people row 2k under 7 minutes?
Never done one in over 7 minutes to be honest. That said, the times you pull on a water rower can't be compared to a Concept II directly, although will provide a proxy.
Some Radio 1 DJ lost a lot of weight on a rowing machine and called it a "Weapon of Mass Reduction." He's right, good on ya for getting one!
Want to strengthen my legs/back/arms/shoulders - but don't really want to lift weights.
Rowing seems a good thing to do and can get the son into it too.
HowMuchLonger said:
Zod said:
We used them for Cambridge trials in 1986 and 1987. The lack of any return momentum on the handle made it very odd. You also had no idea of your progress, so you just had to go hell for leather from the first stroke.
Did you have Donald (Leggate) as a coach (red faced/drunk).
(Pembroke were chasing us and had bizarrely expected to bump us, but we were chasing down Caius whom we bumped).Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff