Lance Armstrong vs. USADA
Discussion
el stovey said:
You must be off your rocker.
to have a different opinion from yourself? Oh yes, I forgot that on PH one must follow like sheep. Sorry, not me. It's simple jealousya nd bullying that is happening. LA has had years of it and has now decided to say stuff it, I've got more important things to do like run a very worthwhile charity where his time is by far better spent than constantly battling with the failed, the jealous and the nasty.I think he's just taken a commercial view on this.....it will cost him lord knows how much to fight this (presumably millions). If he doesn't fight I think he thinks he can say "I didn't do it....it was fabricated etc etc.....it was a conspiracy etc etc" That way he probably thinks he can keep some of his "reputation" intact and certainly has a few more million in the bank.
It will be very interesting to see what's released.
Maybe he thinks he'll do better to go to CAS or soemthing like that ? Fight losing the yellow jersey's once the UCI act.
It will be very interesting to see what's released.
Maybe he thinks he'll do better to go to CAS or soemthing like that ? Fight losing the yellow jersey's once the UCI act.
Silver993tt said:
I do believe that LA is totally innocent in this. However, what happpens if they do strip him of the 7 TDF tiles (which they have no power to anyway)? So whoever came second 10 years ago or whenever is told "by the way, you won". So what, it's pointless. Winning is being 1st there at the time in the atmosphere with the supporters.
This is all an utterly pointless excercise that won't change the real results that happened at the time.
It's about time that the drug testing authorities are give one year from the TDF (for example) to prove or not that a participant was doped or not. After that, tough, they had their time and failed to prove anything.
What's actually even funnier is that you can't even give it to the second, third, fourth etc guys in lots of those instances as they've all been found to have doped as well. This is all an utterly pointless excercise that won't change the real results that happened at the time.
It's about time that the drug testing authorities are give one year from the TDF (for example) to prove or not that a participant was doped or not. After that, tough, they had their time and failed to prove anything.
Marion Jones on USADA
and
and
Silver993tt said:
el stovey said:
You must be off your rocker.
to have a different opinion from yourself? Oh yes, I forgot that on PH one must follow like sheep. Sorry, not me. It's simple jealousya nd bullying that is happening. LA has had years of it and has now decided to say stuff it, I've got more important things to do like run a very worthwhile charity where his time is by far better spent than constantly battling with the failed, the jealous and the nasty.Armstrong, who just failed to stop the FEDERAL case against him proceeding, suddenly decides he's had enough defending himself.
In summary LA's doctor, coach, team mates and Boss were all involved in doping as were his opponents and 10 of his ex team mates were about to testify against him and now when he's about to face the federal case he decides he's had enough defending himself.
And you think he's completely innocent and everyone else is a sheep or jealous. That's why I think you're off your rocker.
Edited by el stovey on Friday 24th August 15:16
samwilliams said:
DJRC said:
...You have proof...present it! At the moment LA has got these fools whipped because he has just played them in public to look like a witchhunt for his head. By throwing his hands up and saying "You know what? Im done with you guys, whatever" he has removed their effective power over him...
But that's exactly what they have just tried to do. As soon as they did that, and Armstrong was going to have to present a defence in proceedings, he suddenly decided to shut up and give in.To me, that doesn't look like it's the USADA that are scared to present their evidence. More likely the other way around.
So what happens next? Do the USDA get to tell LA "See you in court!" or do they just have to accept he doesnt really care about them anymore and they cant touch him?
There was an interesting Radio 4 programme about this the other day where they compared (albeit roughly) the kWh needed to do stages of the TdF; the upshot was something like now they do 2.4-5kWh; back in the days when records fell and dopeing was rumoured to be rife they did 2.8-9kWh even though the nutrition, training, 'minimal gains agglomeration' etc have all improved. The level of kWh was something that several sports scientists said was unachievable without artificial assistance.
Cheib said:
I think he's just taken a commercial view on this.....it will cost him lord knows how much to fight this (presumably millions).
It will cots him $millions if he loses any battle. If he wins then it is only the cost of the tribunal (if he chooses that route) which would, the way I understand it, be jointly funded. However, it is similar to a court in some ways and if he gives evidence under oath and it later proves false - perjured - then it is a ciminal act for which the penalty can be, and often is, imprisonment.Further, his financial empire would take a massive hit if he is proved to be telling lies or that he has cheated. He will have already taken a financial hit by way of failing to fight the current case, almost certainly more than it would cost him to fight it and win.
However, people have short memories. In five years time the dust will have settled and myth would have blurred the circumstances and everyone will be happy to associate with him again. They will say that he's never been convicted of drug taking and that he was the most tested of any athlete and that he'd had over 500 drugs tests.
He's taken advice in all probability but it would have beenf rom an accountant and not a lawyer.
This will be a fine example to those who use him as a role model.
There are many examples of sportsmen, not so many women, who have cheated blatently in their time and then gone on to become part of the establishment and those who mention the history are told they are making it all up. How much more difficult will it be for those who remember when his only offence is de facto accepting the charges?
I've got a son who wanted to go professional at his chosen sport. Our main worry was not injuries or failure but the fact that he would be offered drugs and that he might well be given illegal substances without his knowledge. He dropped out of the race for reasons that never surfaced and now plays at a level where there is no pressure to take drugs. I'm relieved. Until shorts are challenged time and again to clean up drugs will be used in sports.
It's a sports issue to resolve. The only reason courts got involved is that LA claimed that due process wasn't being followed.
A judge threw that out and said that it was and that Armstrong had a reasonable chance to defend himself through the sports process.
He's decided not to defend himself, which is probably sensible given the weight of evidence. So no contest. You can't sight up to the process and then say you don't agree with it (unless you have something to hide obviously).
A judge threw that out and said that it was and that Armstrong had a reasonable chance to defend himself through the sports process.
He's decided not to defend himself, which is probably sensible given the weight of evidence. So no contest. You can't sight up to the process and then say you don't agree with it (unless you have something to hide obviously).
0836whimper said:
Marion Jones on USADA
and
But she didn't know, she said.and
Mind you, she admits to telling lies. She too never failed a drugs test, over 100 drugs tests.
0836whimper said:
You can't sight up to the process and then say you don't agree with it (unless you have something to hide obviously).
Yes, Lance and Johan Bruyneel oddly didn't think USADA should be involved and the UCI (don't laugh) should be responsible. The same UCI that Lance donated $100,000 to. Yes it's perfectly normal for sportsmen to donate $100,000 to the governing body for the sport they participate in. DJRC] said:
So what happens next? Do the USDA get to tell LA "See you in court!" or do they just have to accept he doesnt really care about them anymore and they cant touch him?
That's essentially what they did say. And that's when Lance conceded defeat (well, decided not to offer any defence).ETA - he conceded defeat after first mounting a legal challenge to block the investigation, which failed.
Edited by samwilliams on Friday 24th August 15:38
ascayman said:
Silver993tt said:
So what, it's pointless. Winning is being 1st there at the time in the atmosphere with the supporters.
on that basis you think that carl lewis's gold in 88 olympics was pointless? carl lewis promoted to first after a 10 second race where winner tested positive.
GB relay team of four stripped of medals after one member doped racae lasted 36 seconds thereabouts..
Lance wins 7 three week events as part of a team - does the team lose the points and other jerseys gained during the tour - stage victories etc...
striking this amount of sporting history from the records is a much bogger issue imho...
anyways, I'm off to bury my head in the sand
Oooops.
Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19369375
Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19369375
djstevec said:
Oooops.
Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19369375
Gosh, I feel a bit like when Hansie Cronje got banged up. Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19369375
Actually its a lot worse than that. I need to go for a ride...
Edited by prand on Friday 24th August 17:20
djstevec said:
Oooops.
Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19369375
The usada cannot do that afaik.Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19369375
they can make a recommendation but have no sporting juristiction over the tdf...
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