Lance Armstrong vs. USADA
Discussion
DJRC said:
Froome and Sagan were the nowhere men.
Podium at 2011 Vuelta and ITT win and mountain top finish stage win for Froome.12 2012 wins before the Tour, 4th at Milan-San Remo, 5th at Tour of Flanders, 11 wins in 2011, multiple points jerseys at decent races like Tour of California for Sagan.
Hardly what I'd call nowhere men.
You want a 'nowhere man', try Juan Jose Cobo at 2011 Vuelta.
Edited by Highway Star on Wednesday 10th October 09:34
Edited by Highway Star on Wednesday 10th October 09:36
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/848...
According to this the details come out later today.
According to this the details come out later today.
Highway Star said:
DJRC said:
Froome and Sagan were the nowhere men.
Podium at 2011 Vuelta and ITT win and mountain top finish stage win for Froome.12 2012 wins before the Tour, 4th at Milan-San Remo, 5th at Tour of Flanders, 11 wins in 2011, multiple points jerseys at decent races like Tour of California for Sagan.
Hardly what I'd call nowhere men.
You want a 'nowhere man', try Juan Jose Cobo at 2011 Vuelta.
Edited by Highway Star on Wednesday 10th October 09:34
Edited by Highway Star on Wednesday 10th October 09:36
Before his run started last yr Froome was largely a nobody in world cycling terms. Suddenly he could have won the 2012 TdF. That makes me sit up and take notice.
DJRC said:
Er for Juan Jose Cobo on the 2011 Vuelta see Froome!!
Before his run started last yr Froome was largely a nobody in world cycling terms. Suddenly he could have won the 2012 TdF. That makes me sit up and take notice.
You said 'nowhere men' in 2012 TDF.Before his run started last yr Froome was largely a nobody in world cycling terms. Suddenly he could have won the 2012 TdF. That makes me sit up and take notice.
Froome has backed up his form in 2011 with a number of 2012 performances. He's only been pro since 2007 also, so relatively young still.
I would say he's just progressing - bit like your running
Undoubtedly though, he's progressed quicker at Sky.Cobo is nowhere now.
aspender said:
I'm on p25 and it's brutal reading. I'm amazed it's taken this long for something that was so extensive to be kept pretty quiet.
Lance Armstrong was one of my sporting heroes, but I have just binned my copy of 'It's not about the bike'.
Armstrong has now been completely discredited and surely even his most naive, blinkered and deluded fanboys must accept that they have been in denial.
The Sunday Times, Paul Kimmage and David Walsh have been completely vindicated. They may now sue Armstrong for the return of the legal settlement they paid him several years ago. 'LA Confidentiel' should now be published in the UK and USA.
Armstrong has now been completely discredited and surely even his most naive, blinkered and deluded fanboys must accept that they have been in denial.
The Sunday Times, Paul Kimmage and David Walsh have been completely vindicated. They may now sue Armstrong for the return of the legal settlement they paid him several years ago. 'LA Confidentiel' should now be published in the UK and USA.
Disastrous said:
This has to be game over on the 'is he innocent?' debate, surely?
I would say so! I'm only on p56 and for the most part the reconstruction of events has been taken from eye witness statements...so they might still claim that there is no smoking gun (it might be later in the report).Disastrous said:
This has to be game over on the 'is he innocent?' debate, surely?
Never underestimate the power of denial.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
Ace, looks official and reporty, something to read in the office tomorrow....
just had a skim, I feel for Hincapie right now, he seemed to be one of the nice guys.... I'll be honest, I've not read it in detail but it does seem to be pretty damming. I couldnt really believe much of what Landis had to say but guys like Zabriske and Hincapie I would trust.... ah well, lets wait and see what the UCI make of it all....
and I appreciate they are American and as such their use of the English language is somewhat poor at best, but could they not have found an adult to write this report, a direct quote from page 64.
just had a skim, I feel for Hincapie right now, he seemed to be one of the nice guys.... I'll be honest, I've not read it in detail but it does seem to be pretty damming. I couldnt really believe much of what Landis had to say but guys like Zabriske and Hincapie I would trust.... ah well, lets wait and see what the UCI make of it all....
and I appreciate they are American and as such their use of the English language is somewhat poor at best, but could they not have found an adult to write this report, a direct quote from page 64.
USADA said:
The testimony of George Hincapie and Floyd Landis, which are wellcorroborated by the experiences of many other witnesses and the documentary record, leave noroom for doubt that in 2003, as in every other year since the beginning of his at the top of the peloton, Lance Armstrong engaged in blood doping
Bradgate said:
Indeed, it supported and sustained civilisations since the dawn of time.Damning of the UCI
USADA said:
Armstrong's suspicious test for EPO at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland
The 2001 Tour du Suisse (Tour of Switzerland) was conducted from June 19 - 28, 2001and was won by Lance Armstrong. Armstrong told both Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis thathe had tested positive for EPO at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland and stated or implied that he had been able to make the EPO test result go away.246Armstrong's conversation with Hamilton wasin 2001, and he told Hamilton "his people had been in touch with UCI, they were going to have ameeting and everything was going to be ok." Armstrong's conversation with Landis was in2002, and Landis recalled Armstrong saying that, "he and Mr. Bruyneel flew to the UCIheadquarters and made a financial agreement to keep the positive test hidden." Consistentwith the testimony of both Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Landis, Pat McQuaid, the current president of UCI, has acknowledged that during 2002, Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel visited the UCI headquarters in Aigle in May 2002 and offered at least $100,000 to help the development of cycling.249UCI vehemently denies that this meeting or payment was, as Mr. Armstrong told Mr.Hamilton and Mr. Landis, tied to a cover-up of the 2001 Tour de Suisse sample. In any case,what is important for the case is that substantial parts of Mr. Hamilton's and Mr. Landis's recollections of Mr. Armstrong's statements have been corroborated.As discussed in more detail in Section V(C) below, Dr. Martial Saugy, the Director of theWADA-accredited anti-doping laboratory in Lausanne, Switzerland has confirmed to bothUSADA and the media that his laboratory detected a number of samples in the 2001 Tour deSuisse that were suspicious for the presence of EPO. Dr. Saugy also told USADA that he wasadvised by UCI that at least one of these samples belonged to Mr. Armstrong. Therefore, evenwithout any consideration of the laboratory test results for these samples, as set forth above,Tyler Hamilton's and Floyd Landis's testimony regarding Mr. Armstrong's admission that heused EPO at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland finds substantial corroboration in the statements of both Dr. Martial Saugy and UCI President Pat McQuaid.
The 2001 Tour du Suisse (Tour of Switzerland) was conducted from June 19 - 28, 2001and was won by Lance Armstrong. Armstrong told both Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis thathe had tested positive for EPO at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland and stated or implied that he had been able to make the EPO test result go away.246Armstrong's conversation with Hamilton wasin 2001, and he told Hamilton "his people had been in touch with UCI, they were going to have ameeting and everything was going to be ok." Armstrong's conversation with Landis was in2002, and Landis recalled Armstrong saying that, "he and Mr. Bruyneel flew to the UCIheadquarters and made a financial agreement to keep the positive test hidden." Consistentwith the testimony of both Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Landis, Pat McQuaid, the current president of UCI, has acknowledged that during 2002, Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel visited the UCI headquarters in Aigle in May 2002 and offered at least $100,000 to help the development of cycling.249UCI vehemently denies that this meeting or payment was, as Mr. Armstrong told Mr.Hamilton and Mr. Landis, tied to a cover-up of the 2001 Tour de Suisse sample. In any case,what is important for the case is that substantial parts of Mr. Hamilton's and Mr. Landis's recollections of Mr. Armstrong's statements have been corroborated.As discussed in more detail in Section V(C) below, Dr. Martial Saugy, the Director of theWADA-accredited anti-doping laboratory in Lausanne, Switzerland has confirmed to bothUSADA and the media that his laboratory detected a number of samples in the 2001 Tour deSuisse that were suspicious for the presence of EPO. Dr. Saugy also told USADA that he wasadvised by UCI that at least one of these samples belonged to Mr. Armstrong. Therefore, evenwithout any consideration of the laboratory test results for these samples, as set forth above,Tyler Hamilton's and Floyd Landis's testimony regarding Mr. Armstrong's admission that heused EPO at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland finds substantial corroboration in the statements of both Dr. Martial Saugy and UCI President Pat McQuaid.
This is an outline of the case that USADA would have presented against Armstrong, if the cheating coward had found the courage to face the music:
Witness after witness would have been called to the stand and witness after witness would have confirmed the following: That Lance Armstrong used the banned drug EPO. That Lance Armstrong used the banned drug Testosterone. That Lance Armstrong provided his teammates the banned drug EPO. That Lance Armstrong administered to a teammate the banned drug Testosterone. That Lance Armstrong enforced the doping program on his team by threatening a rider with termination if he did not dope in accordance with the plan drawn up by Dr. Michele Ferrari. That Lance Armstrong’s doping program was organized by Dr. Ferrari. That Lance Armstrong pushed his teammates to use Dr. Ferrari. That Lance Armstrong used banned blood transfusions to cheat. That Lance Armstrong would have his blood withdrawn and stored throughout the year and then receive banned blood transfusions in the team doctor’s hotel room on nights during the Tour de France. That Lance Armstrong surrounded himself with drug runners and doping doctors so that he could achieve his goal of winning the Tour de France year after year. That Lance Armstrong and his handlers engaged in a massive and long running scheme to use drugs, cover their tracks, intimidate witnesses, tarnish reputations, lie to hearing panels and the press and do whatever was necessary to conceal the truth.
USADA said:
Witness after witness would have been called to the stand and witness after witness would have confirmed the following: That Lance Armstrong used the banned drug EPO. That Lance Armstrong used the banned drug Testosterone. That Lance Armstrong provided his teammates the banned drug EPO. That Lance Armstrong administered to a teammate the banned drug Testosterone. That Lance Armstrong enforced the doping program on his team by threatening a rider with termination if he did not dope in accordance with the plan drawn up by Dr. Michele Ferrari. That Lance Armstrong’s doping program was organized by Dr. Ferrari. That Lance Armstrong pushed his teammates to use Dr. Ferrari. That Lance Armstrong used banned blood transfusions to cheat. That Lance Armstrong would have his blood withdrawn and stored throughout the year and then receive banned blood transfusions in the team doctor’s hotel room on nights during the Tour de France. That Lance Armstrong surrounded himself with drug runners and doping doctors so that he could achieve his goal of winning the Tour de France year after year. That Lance Armstrong and his handlers engaged in a massive and long running scheme to use drugs, cover their tracks, intimidate witnesses, tarnish reputations, lie to hearing panels and the press and do whatever was necessary to conceal the truth.
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