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LaurasOtherHalf
Original Poster
6,297 posts
65 months
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Well the PC brigade must be doing well because I feel a little dirty for asking. But I don't "get" the Paralympics? For want of a better phrase, are the athletes handicapped? I mean (& I'm trying to be utterly honest here) where is the sport between a man with no arms trying to swim faster than a man with two, but only one leg? Are they grouped by disability? I'm genuinely not trying to offend & I freely admit I've never watched it before. I certainly see the achievement some in those less fortunate proving that they can accomplish some incredibly hard things, but I still don't get the sport aspect of it? Or is it not seen like that? 
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hedgefinder
1,412 posts
39 months
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I also struggle with it a little, but to be honest maybe its just because I know very little on the subject....
How do the competitors "compete" on an even playing field with different disabilities is there a "handicap" system (for want of a better word!)??
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Life Saab Itch
34,054 posts
57 months
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They are grouped in different classes. It's like the classes at Le Mans. The more able you are, the higher the class. I'm eligible for them, but I'm a lazy b  d.
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davepoth
19,878 posts
68 months
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hedgefinder said: I also struggle with it a little, but to be honest maybe its just because I know very little on the subject....
How do the competitors "compete" on an even playing field with different disabilities is there a "handicap" system (for want of a better word!)?? There are (I think) about a dozen different categories in the swimming for varying levels of disability - and it's similar for cycling, athletics and so on. Some sports (boccia, wheelchair basketball) are specially developed for particular disabilities. It all works rather well really.
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LaurasOtherHalf
Original Poster
6,297 posts
65 months
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Life Saab Itch said: They are grouped in different classes. It's like the classes at Le Mans. The more able you are, the higher the class. I'm eligible for them, but I'm a lazy b d. Yeah I'm eligible for the normal Olympics, having managed to retain my amateur status for the best part of 35 years  Interesting though, so are you essentially timed/measured on your discipline then put into a group that fits? In which case, is the winner not a bit of a foregone conclusion?
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LaurasOtherHalf
Original Poster
6,297 posts
65 months
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LaurasOtherHalf
Original Poster
6,297 posts
65 months
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singlecoil
14,904 posts
115 months
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I remember a controversy some years ago about a sprinter who had artificial legs below each knee, made of carbon fibre and obviously with a good deal of built in spring. Anyway, the controversy was that these made him six inches taller than he would have be with his natural legs, the extra leg length being advatageous over the other paralympic athletes.
No particular point to make other than that rule bending goes on in all branches of 'sport'.
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ewenm
24,434 posts
114 months
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LaurasOtherHalf said: Yeah I'm eligible for the normal Olympics, having managed to retain my amateur status for the best part of 35 years Interesting though, so are you essentially timed/measured on your discipline then put into a group that fits? In which case, is the winner not a bit of a foregone conclusion? It's by category of disability, not time in event.
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Papa Hotel
9,436 posts
51 months
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I think the Paralympics is a load of b ks. No, no, hear me out. By having this competition, we're saying "yeah, we admire your athletic prowess... but... we don't really want you in our competition for proper people." And that is a pretty f king horrid thing to say. Certain aspects of the Paralympics are a load of patronising nonsense, giving everyone a go at it just because they're disabled is ridiculous. I mean, how do they properly reconcile one disability against another? Yes, there are different categories, but by and large, the less disabled person in a group will win and surely that's against the whole point of the thing? The events that make most sense are the wheelchair ones. The wheelchair races and basketball are particularly gripping as a spectacle and my view is that they should be amalgamated into the "proper" games instead of this patronising little pat on the head that is the Paralympics.
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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singlecoil said: I remember a controversy some years ago about a sprinter who had artificial legs below each knee, made of carbon fibre and obviously with a good deal of built in spring. Anyway, the controversy was that these made him six inches taller than he would have be with his natural legs, the extra leg length being advatageous over the other paralympic athletes.
No particular point to make other than that rule bending goes on in all branches of 'sport'. Isn't that Oscar Pistorias, who competed in the main Olympics this year?
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davepoth
19,878 posts
68 months
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Papa Hotel said: I think the Paralympics is a load of b ks. No, no, hear me out. By having this competition, we're saying "yeah, we admire your athletic prowess... but... we don't really want you in our competition for proper people." And that is a pretty f king horrid thing to say. Certain aspects of the Paralympics are a load of patronising nonsense, giving everyone a go at it just because they're disabled is ridiculous. I mean, how do they properly reconcile one disability against another? Yes, there are different categories, but by and large, the less disabled person in a group will win and surely that's against the whole point of the thing? The events that make most sense are the wheelchair ones. The wheelchair races and basketball are particularly gripping as a spectacle and my view is that they should be amalgamated into the "proper" games instead of this patronising little pat on the head that is the Paralympics. If you can make the grade for the regular Olympics, you can go to the regular Olympics, that's never been a problem. Oscar Pistorius is the one that stands out, but there are quite a few others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_who_...
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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Papa Hotel said: I think the Paralympics is a load of b ks. No, no, hear me out. By having this competition, we're saying "yeah, we admire your athletic prowess... but... we don't really want you in our competition for proper people." And that is a pretty f king horrid thing to say. Certain aspects of the Paralympics are a load of patronising nonsense, giving everyone a go at it just because they're disabled is ridiculous. I mean, how do they properly reconcile one disability against another? Yes, there are different categories, but by and large, the less disabled person in a group will win and surely that's against the whole point of the thing? The events that make most sense are the wheelchair ones. The wheelchair races and basketball are particularly gripping as a spectacle and my view is that they should be amalgamated into the "proper" games instead of this patronising little pat on the head that is the Paralympics. I think this says more about you than it does about the competition, to be honest. I've encountered a few paralympians due to my job - one of them, a 17 year old girl, challenged my team to a javelin throwing competition. Despite only having one arm, and being a 17 year old girl, she beat everyone. It was quite impressive - but equally, she could never compete against the 'main' olympians. I think there will always have to be a separation, or the main Olympics would run for a month - plus it allows companies who really want to be involved in the event to get involved without having to also support the main Olympics - and the other way around is also true. Quite looking forward to it - there are some seriously good paralymic athletes out there.
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singlecoil
14,904 posts
115 months
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HeatonNorris said: singlecoil said: I remember a controversy some years ago about a sprinter who had artificial legs below each knee, made of carbon fibre and obviously with a good deal of built in spring. Anyway, the controversy was that these made him six inches taller than he would have be with his natural legs, the extra leg length being advatageous over the other paralympic athletes.
No particular point to make other than that rule bending goes on in all branches of 'sport'. Isn't that Oscar Pistorias, who competed in the main Olympics this year? Juswt had a quick look at his wikipedia page, and no, I think not. I'm fairly sure the guy I referred to was black, and the controversy was mainly over his new height, not the springiness (although that may have been part of it).
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croyde
8,745 posts
99 months
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I just think that the Opening ceremony from a few weeks ago should be for both and the flame stays alight and then have the closing ceremony in 2 and a bit weeks time to bring the Olympics and the Paralympics to a close.
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ponchie
93 posts
39 months
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The idea of the Paralympics isn't to give everyone a go, the concept evolved from holding activities to keep WWII veterans with spinal cord injuries active and occupied. The events are held according to different disability classes with further sub classes depending on how impaired someone is by their disability. In certain events in the visually impaired class competitors are required to wear black out masks to give a level playing field as some obviously have better vision than others. I'm going to watch a friend win gold on the water at Eton Dorney on the 2nd of September, really looking forward to it 
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Papa Hotel
9,436 posts
51 months
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HeatonNorris said: I think this says more about you than it does about the competition, to be honest. Way to miss the point. 
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LaurasOtherHalf
Original Poster
6,297 posts
65 months
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HeatonNorris said: I've encountered a few paralympians due to my job - one of them, a 17 year old girl, challenged my team to a javelin throwing competition. Despite only having one arm, and being a 17 year old girl, she beat everyone. It was quite impressive - but equally, she could never compete against the 'main' olympians That's kind of my point though. Without trying to sound disrespectful (which I obviously will) to her, she's merely quite good at something isn't she? Better than some (who haven't done any training) but not as good as others.
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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Papa Hotel said: HeatonNorris said: I think this says more about you than it does about the competition, to be honest. Way to miss the point. Well, I don't see your point at all. I suppose the transplant games and the special olypmics are also a load of b ks, too? Or how about the 'European Masters Athletics Championships' - are they also patronising b ks - I mean, if you're getting on a bit, you have no right to your own championship, if you're not good enough to compete in the main olympics...
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Papa Hotel
9,436 posts
51 months
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HeatonNorris said: Well, I don't see your point at all. I suppose the transplant games and the special olypmics are also a load of b ks, too? Or how about the 'European Masters Athletics Championships' - are they also patronising b ks - I mean, if you're getting on a bit, you have no right to your own championship, if you're not good enough to compete in the main olympics... Deliberately obtuse? Yeah, you're right, I'm wrong.
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