The Tennis Thread
Discussion
Murray is an outstanding player who has had a fine career, but we have seen again today, mentally he isn't quite at the same level as Djokovic, Federer & Nadal.
With Lendl behind him, Murray could compete with the big 3, but without him, he is just not quite mentally strong enough, sadly
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With Lendl behind him, Murray could compete with the big 3, but without him, he is just not quite mentally strong enough, sadly
.lambysdad said:
Murray being totally outclassed.
Just goes to show what would have happened at Wimbledon had Djokovic shown up!
I completely disagree. Class is permanent, form is temporary. At their best Murray has the tennis to beat Djokovic but Murray self destructs. He can't expect all matches to go exactly to plan with no downward swings like that Wimbledon final. Djokovic injury feigns obviously affected Murray, then when he "recovered" from the fake injury Murray got pissed off again. Just goes to show what would have happened at Wimbledon had Djokovic shown up!
Pretty sad ending, the only positive Murray can take is that his tennis is there with the best but I think he already knew that. Mauresmo will have a job of sorting how he handles his negativity, Murray should think about seeing Steve Peters.
Babw said:
I completely disagree. Class is permanent, form is temporary. At their best Murray has the tennis to beat Djokovic but Murray self destructs. He can't expect all matches to go exactly to plan with no downward swings like that Wimbledon final. Djokovic injury feigns obviously affected Murray, then when he "recovered" from the fake injury Murray got pissed off again.
Pretty sad ending, the only positive Murray can take is that his tennis is there with the best but I think he already knew that. Mauresmo will have a job of sorting how he handles his negativity, Murray should think about seeing Steve Peters.
That's kinda my point. There's a lot more to Tennis that hitting a ball over the net Pretty sad ending, the only positive Murray can take is that his tennis is there with the best but I think he already knew that. Mauresmo will have a job of sorting how he handles his negativity, Murray should think about seeing Steve Peters.
Djokovic knew he was in a battle today. Not like him to strop about the court feigning injury to break up a game. He got to Andy at key times and Andy really did lose the plot. He did seem to get all that nonsense out of his game.
The difference between Andy and the very best players is just a few points here and there. That's all the games come down to and it matters a lot.
It's rare that Andy is actually outclassed in a game. He didn't lose on ability today as the players were extremely close until late on. His ability went when he lost his focus.
He looks extremely pissed off waiting at the presentation. He looks very rattled.
The difference between Andy and the very best players is just a few points here and there. That's all the games come down to and it matters a lot.
It's rare that Andy is actually outclassed in a game. He didn't lose on ability today as the players were extremely close until late on. His ability went when he lost his focus.
He looks extremely pissed off waiting at the presentation. He looks very rattled.
Edited by Driver101 on Sunday 1st February 12:34
lambysdad said:
That's kinda my point. There's a lot more to Tennis that hitting a ball over the net
The main part of tennis is still hitting the ball over the net, the more you can blank out the other stuff the more your tennis can dictate a match.Murray has the strokes, fitness, speed and plays to be the best. He however can't quieten the demons to let that shine. The most difficult thing for him and other around him will be how to reproduce those moments outside of the matches.
You can only prepare so many ways on the practice court, I bet you anyone that hits against Murray or Djokovic in practice would say Murray hits the better ball. He goes onto the big arenas and he breaks down from the mind downwards. Like with anything psychological it's probably quite hard to admit to his weakness in that aspect and to make the step to fixing it such as seeing Steve Peters.
Babw said:
The main part of tennis is still hitting the ball over the net, the more you can blank out the other stuff the more your tennis can dictate a match.
Murray has the strokes, fitness, speed and plays to be the best. He however can't quieten the demons to let that shine. The most difficult thing for him and other around him will be how to reproduce those moments outside of the matches.
You can only prepare so many ways on the practice court, I bet you anyone that hits against Murray or Djokovic in practice would say Murray hits the better ball. He goes onto the big arenas and he breaks down from the mind downwards. Like with anything psychological it's probably quite hard to admit to his weakness in that aspect and to make the step to fixing it such as seeing Steve Peters.
This.Murray has the strokes, fitness, speed and plays to be the best. He however can't quieten the demons to let that shine. The most difficult thing for him and other around him will be how to reproduce those moments outside of the matches.
You can only prepare so many ways on the practice court, I bet you anyone that hits against Murray or Djokovic in practice would say Murray hits the better ball. He goes onto the big arenas and he breaks down from the mind downwards. Like with anything psychological it's probably quite hard to admit to his weakness in that aspect and to make the step to fixing it such as seeing Steve Peters.
Robbo66 said:
Babw said:
The main part of tennis is still hitting the ball over the net, the more you can blank out the other stuff the more your tennis can dictate a match.
Murray has the strokes, fitness, speed and plays to be the best. He however can't quieten the demons to let that shine. The most difficult thing for him and other around him will be how to reproduce those moments outside of the matches.
You can only prepare so many ways on the practice court, I bet you anyone that hits against Murray or Djokovic in practice would say Murray hits the better ball. He goes onto the big arenas and he breaks down from the mind downwards. Like with anything psychological it's probably quite hard to admit to his weakness in that aspect and to make the step to fixing it such as seeing Steve Peters.
This.Murray has the strokes, fitness, speed and plays to be the best. He however can't quieten the demons to let that shine. The most difficult thing for him and other around him will be how to reproduce those moments outside of the matches.
You can only prepare so many ways on the practice court, I bet you anyone that hits against Murray or Djokovic in practice would say Murray hits the better ball. He goes onto the big arenas and he breaks down from the mind downwards. Like with anything psychological it's probably quite hard to admit to his weakness in that aspect and to make the step to fixing it such as seeing Steve Peters.
But to support my original post, whether by hitting the ball, fitness, psychological or some other reason...Murray was outclassed.
lambysdad said:
I agree.
But to support my original post, whether by hitting the ball, fitness, psychological or some other reason...Murray was outclassed.
I think that 'outclassed' is the wrong word to use. For the first two sets, Murray played some amazing tennis. Ultimately he fell apart in the end and was beaten, but I don't think he was outclassed. But to support my original post, whether by hitting the ball, fitness, psychological or some other reason...Murray was outclassed.
lambysdad said:
I agree.
But to support my original post, whether by hitting the ball, fitness, psychological or some other reason...Murray was outclassed.
I guess Djokovic outclassed Murray psychologically. Whether it's fair or not I do think that injury feign was a stroke of genius, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was a gem that Boris advised knowing Murray fragility. But to support my original post, whether by hitting the ball, fitness, psychological or some other reason...Murray was outclassed.
It did the trick of taking Murrays focus away from his tennis and when Djokovic miraculously recovered Murrays head was blown.
Murray has obviously had this "injury" moments in the past but those just hindered him mentally not take the focus away from his opponent.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As I've said before it's relative to who is around him. Not number 50 in the world. I did also say that what he's done is fantastic but he shows mental fragility more often than the people above him in the rankings and that's the difference from him winning more often in the big stages than he is now.I'm assuming you disagree with this?
Well there you go. Novak wanted it more, came to fight all the way through and knew Andy would break. On top of that there is not a chance in the universe Novak will even think about defeat with Mauresmo in Andy's corner. That might have spurred him on to serve up that bagel 
The problem is simple one, Andy could win every single slam of the year at will. Where he fails against Novak/Rafa 7/10 is mentally, no other area. So why on earth hire one of the biggest chokers in women's tennis if falling apart is your weakness? Ignore the issue of having a female coach (I've already explained why I personally believe this is a bad idea), but you cannot add someone to your team that knows nothing about dealing with pressure and "won" their first slam through not actually having to play a semi-final or final. Mauresmo's game was best suited to grass and being one of the very few women that serve and volley (quite effectively I might add) she should have wrapped up Wimbledon a couple of times and her one win was by virtue of a lucky draw that she barely managed choked her way through a weak draw. Not a Williams sister or Hingis in sight. She may be a lovely girl but she is out of her depth and has absolutely nothing to bring to Andy Murray's game physically or mentally.
When Andy wins, which he was doing once he decided he wanted to play tennis at the end of last season, suddenly credit is (undeservedly) dished out. Andy loses and suddenly "it's a new relationship, she has barely spent time with him and her work won't kick in just yet". What a load of tosh!
IMO it's the biggest mistake of his career, everything else was in place after years of hard work for him to add lots of slams to the CV (thanks to his loyal old team). With them in place this final would have been a different story, certainly wouldn't have gotten any bagels! If he wants a woman so badly, bring in Martina Navratilova I say. Style, grace, longevity and the mentally strongest woman to ever play the game.
Oh well....
The problem is simple one, Andy could win every single slam of the year at will. Where he fails against Novak/Rafa 7/10 is mentally, no other area. So why on earth hire one of the biggest chokers in women's tennis if falling apart is your weakness? Ignore the issue of having a female coach (I've already explained why I personally believe this is a bad idea), but you cannot add someone to your team that knows nothing about dealing with pressure and "won" their first slam through not actually having to play a semi-final or final. Mauresmo's game was best suited to grass and being one of the very few women that serve and volley (quite effectively I might add) she should have wrapped up Wimbledon a couple of times and her one win was by virtue of a lucky draw that she barely managed choked her way through a weak draw. Not a Williams sister or Hingis in sight. She may be a lovely girl but she is out of her depth and has absolutely nothing to bring to Andy Murray's game physically or mentally.
When Andy wins, which he was doing once he decided he wanted to play tennis at the end of last season, suddenly credit is (undeservedly) dished out. Andy loses and suddenly "it's a new relationship, she has barely spent time with him and her work won't kick in just yet". What a load of tosh!
IMO it's the biggest mistake of his career, everything else was in place after years of hard work for him to add lots of slams to the CV (thanks to his loyal old team). With them in place this final would have been a different story, certainly wouldn't have gotten any bagels! If he wants a woman so badly, bring in Martina Navratilova I say. Style, grace, longevity and the mentally strongest woman to ever play the game.
Oh well....
I watched every point and imho Murray lost far too many key points through poor shot selection or missing obvious (and sometimes easy) winners.
Whether this is down to mental toughness or shot playing ability is a problem for the Murray camp to analyse but it does seem to be the issue that seperates Murray from Roge/Raf/Djok - that singular ability to clinically take those chances when they are presented. You can't overly criticise Murray as he plays sufficiently well to put himself amogst the three others time and time again but at the rarified level that all four play at it's a players ability to take those few chances when they are presented that turns you from a finalist to a Champion - this I feel is where Murray is a step behind the other three.
Whether this is down to mental toughness or shot playing ability is a problem for the Murray camp to analyse but it does seem to be the issue that seperates Murray from Roge/Raf/Djok - that singular ability to clinically take those chances when they are presented. You can't overly criticise Murray as he plays sufficiently well to put himself amogst the three others time and time again but at the rarified level that all four play at it's a players ability to take those few chances when they are presented that turns you from a finalist to a Champion - this I feel is where Murray is a step behind the other three.
E24man said:
I watched every point and imho Murray lost far too many key points through poor shot selection or missing obvious (and sometimes easy) winners.
Whether this is down to mental toughness or shot playing ability is a problem for the Murray camp to analyse but it does seem to be the issue that seperates Murray from Roge/Raf/Djok - that singular ability to clinically take those chances when they are presented. You can't overly criticise Murray as he plays sufficiently well to put himself amogst the three others time and time again but at the rarified level that all four play at it's a players ability to take those few chances when they are presented that turns you from a finalist to a Champion - this I feel is where Murray is a step behind the other three.
What is especially annoying is that he CAN do that all day long, physically. But when he checks out of the point early (before the thing is over) that's when he finds himself in bother. Against ANYONE other than Novak and Rafa (not so much Federer anymore IMO) he can get away with it as his game is THAT good. But the two animals with their names on every trophy make him pay dearly for the lapses. Still, it would make the big wins all the more satisfying if I were in his shoes. Whether this is down to mental toughness or shot playing ability is a problem for the Murray camp to analyse but it does seem to be the issue that seperates Murray from Roge/Raf/Djok - that singular ability to clinically take those chances when they are presented. You can't overly criticise Murray as he plays sufficiently well to put himself amogst the three others time and time again but at the rarified level that all four play at it's a players ability to take those few chances when they are presented that turns you from a finalist to a Champion - this I feel is where Murray is a step behind the other three.
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