The Tennis Thread
Discussion
anonymous said:
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The reality is the use of PED's is against the rules whereas something like the use of cutting edge medical technology to help recover from an injury isn't; whether that's right or not is another issue but it doesn't excuse taking PED's IMO! Not sure how you have a truly level playing field for everyone without moving to some sort of communism; let's face it, being born into a wealthy family quite probably opens-up opportunities which aren't available to everyone but that's just the world we live in.....anonymous said:
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Wrap it up in as many words as you like, she has been suspended, dropped by most of her lucrative sponsors, admitted doping and is a cheat. Expressing as I did, the view that others agree in part or full with what I say is another fact, you don't like facts it seems? The issues are yours, I suggest you work on them. 
anonymous said:
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Sorry, I thought what you were trying to say was that there are things which legally give an advantage - perhaps more of an advantage than PED's - with an implication that it was wrong to single out PED's and that they were perhaps being given too much credence? Apologies if interpreted incorrectly.anonymous said:
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I think the notion of "fairness" is probably a holy grail that will never be achieved as there will almost always be someone, somewhere, who think it's not fair (whether that be in sport or life generally!). However, I don't think a general debate of what is or isn't fair alters the fact that the use of PED's is wrong and should be addressed by the authorities; I do agree that the accidental use of a banned substance doesn't necessarily make someone a cheat but the rules should be enforced regardless - perhaps a less severe penalty for a genuine mistake but a strong one for those that knew what they were doing (and they are cheats!).JNW1 said:
Derek Smith said:
If she's been taking prescribed medicine for 10 years to enhance her performance and not to combat a medical condition, then she is a cheat.
I understand your sentiment but a) she hasn't admitted to taking the drug for 10 years to enhance her performance and b) if the substance was not on the banned list she's been working within the rules - ethically it whiffs a bit (stinks!) but can you really call someone a cheat if they've played by the rules and done nothing illegal? Obviously her and her team have screwed-up with the rule change at the end of the year but was that the oversight they claim or a conscious decision to continue to use what had become a banned substance? Massive incompetence if the former, cheating if the latter (all IMHO of course!).1/ taking a substance that is proscribed. She has admitted to this. She has broken the rules, and
2/ taking a substance in order to enhance her performance. As I said, if she's been doing that for 10 years, then that is cheating.
I don't like the idea of people taking performance enhancing substances because it encourages the others. There was one sport where beta blockers were being taken at something like 400% above the national average at one time according to some reports. All were prescribed and so did not break the then rules. I don't know if it has changed in the interim. However, who would put money on every instance being genuine? We are trusting the integrity of doctors and it is no better than that of the competitors. In other words, most are honest, some are not.
If you are running at #200 and need to break into the big time, and someone tells you of a doctor who might see symptoms that require beta blockers, even without examining you, what might you do? Completely within the rules, but cheating without a doubt.
Despite the claims that what Sharpova has admitted taking has reportedly no side effects, I wonder if the testing went on for 10 whole years, when the max dose was for a few weeks. In fact I know. She might well have been doing all sorts to her body long term. OK, so that's down to her, but what about the others who want to be #1? Or #20? All drugs have side effects. We have evolved over the years, but most improvements are merely a play off between risk and benefit.
I was rather naive when it came to the sport that my lad plays. I was grateful that an energetic and adventuresome lad had fallen for the attractions of one of the few sports that seemed to display the old fashioned values. 15 years on I can see how lucky I am that my lad stayed away from the so-called easy route. He's got talent, playing for England under 19s, and perhaps being a bit naive himself, reckoned that hard work and hours down the gym would give him the physique he required for the position he played.
I saw other lads progress up the ladder, suddenly putting on bulk over a summer. Solid muscle. It is cheating despite there being no chance of it being detected. The fact that most didn't last is no comfort as there were always others in the wings.
If drugs testing came in then I bet there would be doctors willing to issue scripts for the stuff they were taking, or at least something similar, but not banned.
yonex said:
Wrap it up in as many words as you like, she has been suspended, dropped by most of her lucrative sponsors, admitted doping and is a cheat. Expressing as I did, the view that others agree in part or full with what I say is another fact, you don't like facts it seems? The issues are yours, I suggest you work on them.
I think he thinks its similar to her putting on the wrong shade of Lipstick. I wonder how hard it really is to understand a simple rule that what is in her body is her responsibility.
Her 'mistake' was not checking that it was on the banned list, and for that alone, she should be punished. God even I've competed at low level amateur competitions that have been drugs tested, and been given lists of substances that I can't take, so it's no excuse for a professional athlete to allow this 'mistake' to happen. Whether or not something more ominous comes out remains to be seen.
anonymous said:
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Nope sorry the rules are stupidly clear.She might possibly have done it by mistake. In which case she possibly cheated by accident.
But again its 2016, there should be no excuse for this from one of the worlds top athletes. its not like this is new stuff. Its not like she didnt or shouldnt have had a team of experts working on this.
inexcusable.
Some very interesting comments from Andy Murray when quizzed about this in Indian Wells. I particularly liked the one where he remarked that it seemed a bit off that so many top athletes have been found guilty of taking the drug since January given it's principal medical use is meant to be for treating heart problems; on the basis it's highly unlikely so many top athletes are all suffering from mystery heart complaints his inference was quite clear - they're using it for performance enhancing purposes and are therefore cheating. Although there's no cast iron evidence to support that as yet - and Murray was therefore obviously choosing his words carefully - I have to say I'm with him on this; suspect there's no smoke without fire and if and when it's proved I hope the culprits get the roasting they deserve.
anonymous said:
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Where is the evidence to support this quite fanciful notion of yours?She took a banned substance, she is a cheat, she will get banned and rightly so. Prove me wrong.
John Haggerty her lawyer answering questions earlier... said:
Q) Meldonium is not licensed in the US so there are questions about where Maria got it from because individuals are banned from importing it into the US. Has the Food and Drug Administration been in touch with you?
A) The FDA has not been in touch with me. It is an over-the-counter medicine that is readily available in a number of countries. Maria legally purchased it and obtained it and has been taking it per her doctor’s recommendations.
Q) So would she have been buying it outside of the US?
A) Given that goes into the medical records and out of respect for the ITF (International Tennis Federation) process, I’m not going to be able to respond to that.
Q) Is mildronate performance-enhancing? Wada has banned it altogether, rather than setting a dosage limit.
A) That’s something I think Wada would have to answer but I would say, given the daily dosage they were saying, some athletes were using it to gain some potential performance-enhancing benefits. Those dosages I’ve seen in the literature are substantially higher than the dosage Maria’s doctor recommended for her medical condition. So while I’m not a physician my belief is the level Maria was taking it at, there would not be any performance-enhancing effect whatsoever.
Q) Did she put meldonium on those forms?
A) Maria never took meldonium, she took mildronate. I’m in the process … I’ve yet to review those forms so I can’t answer that question. I simply do not know.
Q) Did she take it on its own or together with other things?
A) It would have been taken together with other things, pursuant to her doctor’s recommendations.
Q) So was it a capsule on its own, or something with others in it?
A) We’re sort of getting into the details of her medical records that we’re not able to discuss but that’s what I think is the clarification. It wasn’t that she was taking mildronate to address every single issue she had. Her doctor recommended it for a number of her conditions, he recommended some additional medications, and she followed her doctor’s orders in taking all those medications.
Quack.A) The FDA has not been in touch with me. It is an over-the-counter medicine that is readily available in a number of countries. Maria legally purchased it and obtained it and has been taking it per her doctor’s recommendations.
Q) So would she have been buying it outside of the US?
A) Given that goes into the medical records and out of respect for the ITF (International Tennis Federation) process, I’m not going to be able to respond to that.
Q) Is mildronate performance-enhancing? Wada has banned it altogether, rather than setting a dosage limit.
A) That’s something I think Wada would have to answer but I would say, given the daily dosage they were saying, some athletes were using it to gain some potential performance-enhancing benefits. Those dosages I’ve seen in the literature are substantially higher than the dosage Maria’s doctor recommended for her medical condition. So while I’m not a physician my belief is the level Maria was taking it at, there would not be any performance-enhancing effect whatsoever.
Q) Did she put meldonium on those forms?
A) Maria never took meldonium, she took mildronate. I’m in the process … I’ve yet to review those forms so I can’t answer that question. I simply do not know.
Q) Did she take it on its own or together with other things?
A) It would have been taken together with other things, pursuant to her doctor’s recommendations.
Q) So was it a capsule on its own, or something with others in it?
A) We’re sort of getting into the details of her medical records that we’re not able to discuss but that’s what I think is the clarification. It wasn’t that she was taking mildronate to address every single issue she had. Her doctor recommended it for a number of her conditions, he recommended some additional medications, and she followed her doctor’s orders in taking all those medications.
anonymous said:
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Are you thick, or just being remarkably obtuse, I cannot decide between them...bit of both I should say Alex Abad-Santos said:
Sharapova insists she wasn't using meldonium to dope. Rather, she said during her March 7 press conference that her doctor prescribed the drug to treat and manage several health issues that she began experiencing in 2006 and has been using it ever since.
"I had irregular EKG results as well as indications of diabetes with a family history of diabetes," she explained.
Grindeks, the Latvian company that manufactures meldonium, questioned Sharapova's claim and continual usage for such a long period of time. The company said a normal treatment period for patients taking meldonium for health reasons runs four to six weeks.
"Depending on the patient's health condition, treatment course of meldonium preparations may vary from four to six weeks," Grindeks said in statement to the Associated Press. "Treatment course can be repeated twice or thrice a year. Only physicians can follow and evaluate patient's health condition and state whether the patient should use meldonium for a longer period of time."
Sharapova's lawyer has claimed the athlete was just following her doctor's orders, but there's a clear disconnect between the drug company's statement about a four- to six-week treatment period (that can be repeated two or three times per year) and Sharapova's claim that she was taking it continually for health reasons for a full decade.
And if Sharapova was just following her doctor's orders, why was her doctor not up to date with WADA regulations?
Further damaging Sharapova's case is the fact that she isn't the only Russian athlete to test positive for the drug. On Monday, March 7, Ekaterina Bobrova, an ice dancer who has an Olympic gold medal to her name, also said she failed a doping test due to meldonium usage. The next day, March 8, Russian world champion speed skater Pavel Kulizhnikov's coach said Kulizhnikov had also failed a doping test for meldonium, according to the Guardian. And on Wednesday, March 9, Georgian Olympic wrestling silver medalist Davit Modzmanashvili admitted to using the drug.
It's very hard to believe that so many world-class athletes, including Sharapova, are taking meldonium for health reasons.
History of diabetes, heart problems, so 'lucky' to have made it to be one of the worlds best athletes "I had irregular EKG results as well as indications of diabetes with a family history of diabetes," she explained.
Grindeks, the Latvian company that manufactures meldonium, questioned Sharapova's claim and continual usage for such a long period of time. The company said a normal treatment period for patients taking meldonium for health reasons runs four to six weeks.
"Depending on the patient's health condition, treatment course of meldonium preparations may vary from four to six weeks," Grindeks said in statement to the Associated Press. "Treatment course can be repeated twice or thrice a year. Only physicians can follow and evaluate patient's health condition and state whether the patient should use meldonium for a longer period of time."
Sharapova's lawyer has claimed the athlete was just following her doctor's orders, but there's a clear disconnect between the drug company's statement about a four- to six-week treatment period (that can be repeated two or three times per year) and Sharapova's claim that she was taking it continually for health reasons for a full decade.
And if Sharapova was just following her doctor's orders, why was her doctor not up to date with WADA regulations?
Further damaging Sharapova's case is the fact that she isn't the only Russian athlete to test positive for the drug. On Monday, March 7, Ekaterina Bobrova, an ice dancer who has an Olympic gold medal to her name, also said she failed a doping test due to meldonium usage. The next day, March 8, Russian world champion speed skater Pavel Kulizhnikov's coach said Kulizhnikov had also failed a doping test for meldonium, according to the Guardian. And on Wednesday, March 9, Georgian Olympic wrestling silver medalist Davit Modzmanashvili admitted to using the drug.
It's very hard to believe that so many world-class athletes, including Sharapova, are taking meldonium for health reasons.
Quack, quack, oops.
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