The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
creampuff said:
Well I bought that MP5 22LR which I posted about a couple of pages back. Oh it's so nice 
Now I want to get a red dot sight for it. They basically come in two styles (I'm not going for one of these to in particular, just asking about which one of these two types):
or this:
The first one is obv a lot smaller so when using it with both eyes open there is going to be a lot less in the way between your eyes and the target. The second one it is easier to adjust windage, elevation and brightness of the dot.
Any ideas?
Been mulling over the same issue's for my GSG Stg.44........and based on experience's of a couple fellow club members with using the small prism sights, I'm going for the 2nd option you show, and getting a Vortex SPARC. Mate has just put one on his .22 after having not much success with one of those prism sights and he much prefers the SPARC.Now I want to get a red dot sight for it. They basically come in two styles (I'm not going for one of these to in particular, just asking about which one of these two types):
or this:
The first one is obv a lot smaller so when using it with both eyes open there is going to be a lot less in the way between your eyes and the target. The second one it is easier to adjust windage, elevation and brightness of the dot.
Any ideas?
So did when I tried it after fitting the SPARC compared to the go I'd had when it was fitted with the prism sight.
aeropilot said:
Been mulling over the same issue's for my GSG Stg.44........and based on experience's of a couple fellow club members with using the small prism sights, I'm going for the 2nd option you show, and getting a Vortex SPARC. Mate has just put one on his .22 after having not much success with one of those prism sights and he much prefers the SPARC.
So did when I tried it after fitting the SPARC compared to the go I'd had when it was fitted with the prism sight.
I can't think of anybody with a prism sight on a rifle at my club so I can't ask. What did the prism users at your club not like about it & was it just because it was a cheap sight or they didn't like the whole concept? So did when I tried it after fitting the SPARC compared to the go I'd had when it was fitted with the prism sight.
creampuff said:
aeropilot said:
Been mulling over the same issue's for my GSG Stg.44........and based on experience's of a couple fellow club members with using the small prism sights, I'm going for the 2nd option you show, and getting a Vortex SPARC. Mate has just put one on his .22 after having not much success with one of those prism sights and he much prefers the SPARC.
So did when I tried it after fitting the SPARC compared to the go I'd had when it was fitted with the prism sight.
I can't think of anybody with a prism sight on a rifle at my club so I can't ask. What did the prism users at your club not like about it & was it just because it was a cheap sight or they didn't like the whole concept? So did when I tried it after fitting the SPARC compared to the go I'd had when it was fitted with the prism sight.
Others just found that the extra functionality of the bigger sights (for not significantly more money) just meant they were nicer to use, for and thus better value for money.
Only issue for me is that the extra weight of them, compared to the prism type, added to the already significant heft of the Stg.44 means I might have to spend more time down the gym
Still, I don't actually use the Stg.44 that much, so its not going to be much of an issue in that regard. I'd rather keep the iron sights, but my ageing eyes are struggling now with the original style sight picture.
creampuff said:
Well I bought that MP5 22LR which I posted about a couple of pages back. Oh it's so nice
Glad to hear that you're happy with it, I'd planned on buying one when my FAC came through, but after you posted about them being discontinued here I've got my local shop holding one for me until it arrives.What model did you go for?
Hoppum said:
Glad to hear that you're happy with it, I'd planned on buying one when my FAC came through, but after you posted about them being discontinued here I've got my local shop holding one for me until it arrives.
What model did you go for?
I got the MP5 A4, which has the short barrel and the fixed stock. What model did you go for?
It's a really great gun. IMHO the 22LR copies of full size 5.56 NATO rifles are just too big considering it is only .22s which come out the end. The Walther MP5 is a really good size for the caliber of ammunition it uses.
I'd get the dealer to hold a spare magazine for you as they may also become scarce.
The only thing about it is that if you want to mount an optic, you need to buy a rail which has been specially made for it and the only place I've seen them on sale is hkparts.net who are in the US and don't export to the UK.
aeropilot said:
One had issues with the adjustment on the one he had.
Others just found that the extra functionality of the bigger sights (for not significantly more money) just meant they were nicer to use, for and thus better value for money.
Only issue for me is that the extra weight of them, compared to the prism type, added to the already significant heft of the Stg.44 means I might have to spend more time down the gym
Still, I don't actually use the Stg.44 that much, so its not going to be much of an issue in that regard. I'd rather keep the iron sights, but my ageing eyes are struggling now with the original style sight picture.
My ageing eyesight is one of the reasons why I want a red dot sight. The MP5 only has a short barrel and the front sight is close enough to my eye that I have trouble comfortably focusing on it. Others just found that the extra functionality of the bigger sights (for not significantly more money) just meant they were nicer to use, for and thus better value for money.
Only issue for me is that the extra weight of them, compared to the prism type, added to the already significant heft of the Stg.44 means I might have to spend more time down the gym
Still, I don't actually use the Stg.44 that much, so its not going to be much of an issue in that regard. I'd rather keep the iron sights, but my ageing eyes are struggling now with the original style sight picture.
I'll have to see how high my rail is when it arrives (MP5 doesn't come with one as per post above). If the rail is low enough, then if I get one of the tubeless microsights it may still be able to co-witness with the iron sights. If I get a bigger tube sight, then that will mean that it will be red dot only and no more iron sights.
creampuff said:
The only thing about it is that if you want to mount an optic, you need to buy a rail which has been specially made for it and the only place I've seen them on sale is hkparts.net who are in the US and don't export to the UK.
I had the same issue with my Stg.44.The one made by GSG for the Stg.44 can be obtained via the UK importer........but with an unspecified order time, and at an absurdly high cost.
Fortunately I have a mate in the USA, who ordered one off ebay for 20 dollars for me, and later chucked in a big box of used car parts that he was posting to another mate here in the UK.
creampuff said:
I got the MP5 A4, which has the short barrel and the fixed stock.
It's a really great gun. IMHO the 22LR copies of full size 5.56 NATO rifles are just too big considering it is only .22s which come out the end. The Walther MP5 is a really good size for the caliber of ammunition it uses.
I'd get the dealer to hold a spare magazine for you as they may also become scarce.
The only thing about it is that if you want to mount an optic, you need to buy a rail which has been specially made for it and the only place I've seen them on sale is hkparts.net who are in the US and don't export to the UK.
Same model as me then.It's a really great gun. IMHO the 22LR copies of full size 5.56 NATO rifles are just too big considering it is only .22s which come out the end. The Walther MP5 is a really good size for the caliber of ammunition it uses.
I'd get the dealer to hold a spare magazine for you as they may also become scarce.
The only thing about it is that if you want to mount an optic, you need to buy a rail which has been specially made for it and the only place I've seen them on sale is hkparts.net who are in the US and don't export to the UK.
I had the same feelings regarding size and caliber.
I'll be alright buying the magazines myself before getting my FAC won't I? Was under the impression that magazines themselves aren't a restricted item as a reenactor friend owns plenty.
I'd seen the rail for sale on that site but wasn't aware they didn't export. Time to get in touch with some stateside friends.
> Stg.44
Oh I just looked that up I've picked one of them up, they are a bit heavy. Quite satisfying though!
> I'll be alright buying the magazines myself before getting my FAC won't I?
It's only the pressure bearing parts of guns which are controlled (ie barrel, bolt etc) so you should be fine to buy a magazine.
.... speaking of which:
Has anybody run into trouble _exporting_ parts or optics from the US as a private export, ie run into trouble on the US side as opposed to running into trouble on the UK side? AFAIK it is because some parts are covered by ITAR restrictions, so US dealers just have a blanket no export policy so keep out of trouble. But if you were to buy a rifle sight in the US while on a trip there and put it in your suitcase, can anything go wrong?
Oh I just looked that up
I've picked one of them up, they are a bit heavy. Quite satisfying though!> I'll be alright buying the magazines myself before getting my FAC won't I?
It's only the pressure bearing parts of guns which are controlled (ie barrel, bolt etc) so you should be fine to buy a magazine.
.... speaking of which:
Has anybody run into trouble _exporting_ parts or optics from the US as a private export, ie run into trouble on the US side as opposed to running into trouble on the UK side? AFAIK it is because some parts are covered by ITAR restrictions, so US dealers just have a blanket no export policy so keep out of trouble. But if you were to buy a rifle sight in the US while on a trip there and put it in your suitcase, can anything go wrong?
I've used a number of different reflex and tube red dot sights on a variety of shotguns, pistols and rifles.
Reflex sights are often used on small, light guns because they don't add too much weight or bulk to the overall package. They can be less rugged and often the optics are relatively small, so you have to be sure you present the gun properly or you won't pick up the dot immediately, which can be a problem if you're doing any sort of speed shooting.
Traditional red dot sights tend to be bigger, heavier but will put up with more of a beating from you or the gun. The optics are usually bigger with a wider field of view, which can help you pick the dot up faster. Being bigger, the controls usually are easier to operate.
Other considerations:
With some semi-autos, you have to think about whether the mass you're adding with the sight could upset the functioning of the gun.
Do you know what size dot you want? Options are usually from about 2-8MOA.
Tube and reflex sights can and do suffer from parallax, so check that especially at the cheaper end of the market.
There are plenty of cheap Chinese clones out there. Some aren't too bad, but it's a bit of a lottery and if you're putting a sight on anything other than a .22 I'd go for an established quality brand like Vortex, Aimpoint, Shield, Trijicon, C-more etc.
Best thing as always is to look through as many sights as you can find to see what you think of them before parting with cash.
HTH
Reflex sights are often used on small, light guns because they don't add too much weight or bulk to the overall package. They can be less rugged and often the optics are relatively small, so you have to be sure you present the gun properly or you won't pick up the dot immediately, which can be a problem if you're doing any sort of speed shooting.
Traditional red dot sights tend to be bigger, heavier but will put up with more of a beating from you or the gun. The optics are usually bigger with a wider field of view, which can help you pick the dot up faster. Being bigger, the controls usually are easier to operate.
Other considerations:
With some semi-autos, you have to think about whether the mass you're adding with the sight could upset the functioning of the gun.
Do you know what size dot you want? Options are usually from about 2-8MOA.
Tube and reflex sights can and do suffer from parallax, so check that especially at the cheaper end of the market.
There are plenty of cheap Chinese clones out there. Some aren't too bad, but it's a bit of a lottery and if you're putting a sight on anything other than a .22 I'd go for an established quality brand like Vortex, Aimpoint, Shield, Trijicon, C-more etc.
Best thing as always is to look through as many sights as you can find to see what you think of them before parting with cash.
HTH
creampuff said:
.... speaking of which:
Has anybody run into trouble _exporting_ parts or optics from the US as a private export, ie run into trouble on the US side as opposed to running into trouble on the UK side? AFAIK it is because some parts are covered by ITAR restrictions, so US dealers just have a blanket no export policy so keep out of trouble. But if you were to buy a rifle sight in the US while on a trip there and put it in your suitcase, can anything go wrong?
The only issue you're likely to have buying parts when in the U.S. is a seller who won't accept a UK registered credit card. Other than that, they'll be happy to sell you most accessories and parts. So that part of it is no problem.Has anybody run into trouble _exporting_ parts or optics from the US as a private export, ie run into trouble on the US side as opposed to running into trouble on the UK side? AFAIK it is because some parts are covered by ITAR restrictions, so US dealers just have a blanket no export policy so keep out of trouble. But if you were to buy a rifle sight in the US while on a trip there and put it in your suitcase, can anything go wrong?
If a part is ITAR controlled and you are somehow caught while flying out of the U.S. then it will probably be confiscated and you'll get a talking to, but for you to get caught in the first place is really a very remote possibility IMO. The last few trips I've made to the States I've brought back various restricted items and as long as they are in checked baggage, even if TSA open the bag and rummage around, they are very unlikely to recognise or do anything about items on the ITAR list as that's not their job.
I think I've brought back a (ITAR restricted) rifle scope and/or optical sight every time I've been there in the last few years (about 4-5 times) with no bother.
creampuff said:
I'll have to see how high my rail is when it arrives (MP5 doesn't come with one as per post above). If the rail is low enough, then if I get one of the tubeless microsights it may still be able to co-witness with the iron sights. If I get a bigger tube sight, then that will mean that it will be red dot only and no more iron sights.
I don't think they'll be any mount available which will be low enough for co-witnessing.There are plenty of 'claw' type mounts for airsoft MP5s available on ebay and other UK airsoft outlets.
The other option is to remove the existing rear sight assembly and make up an adapter plate so you could mount a reflex sight on there.
FurtiveFreddy said:
I think I've brought back a (ITAR restricted) rifle scope and/or optical sight every time I've been there in the last few years (about 4-5 times) with no bother.
Thanks for the info in your posts. Do you know if is all scopes which are ITAR restricted or is it only scopes with mildot reticles? All the ranges I shoot at have distances measured in yards, so I'd only be buying MOAR scopes anyway.
creampuff said:
Thanks for the info in your posts.
Do you know if is all scopes which are ITAR restricted or is it only scopes with mildot reticles? All the ranges I shoot at have distances measured in yards, so I'd only be buying MOAR scopes anyway.
It's not as simple as that. Some types of scope like an ACOG are designated 'combat' scopes and will be restricted regardless of the reticle.Do you know if is all scopes which are ITAR restricted or is it only scopes with mildot reticles? All the ranges I shoot at have distances measured in yards, so I'd only be buying MOAR scopes anyway.
Most 'tactical' scopes will be restricted and in those cases, 'tactical' can just refer to the type of turret the scope has fitted.
If you go onto a website like Opticsplanet.com, you can look at all the scopes they list and see which ones are ITAR or have a Government Export Restriction, as they specifically point that out to you as you browse the listings.
It may be that with the £/$ rate being where it is now you won't save masses by buying over there and if you're slightly paranoid, you may feel uneasy about putting a scope in your bag, so buying in the EU might be easier all round.
There are some places in mainland EU which can be a bit cheaper than the UK for scopes.
creampuff said:
^ Yes, I'm having a fortuitous visit from my cousin from Los Angeles next week. Was going to ask her to get me a red dot sight as well but Brexit has pummeled the pound so much that there is only about a 5 or 10% difference in US vs UK price now.
I wouldn't, unless you don't terribly like her.Yes you can buy magazines without FAC
Look at a S&W 15-22 as well.
Mine has been perfect and a lot of fun.
May I suggest one of these. Be warned you will use lots of ammo and it ain't cheap when you end up firing 1000 a session.
Need the coresponding attachment for whatever magazine you get.
https://www.blackrifle.co.uk/Rimfire-Speedloader-p...
Look at a S&W 15-22 as well.
Mine has been perfect and a lot of fun.
May I suggest one of these. Be warned you will use lots of ammo and it ain't cheap when you end up firing 1000 a session.
Need the coresponding attachment for whatever magazine you get.
https://www.blackrifle.co.uk/Rimfire-Speedloader-p...
Hoppum said:
Can you confirm what size capacity the magazine that comes with the gun is? Some places say it's the 10rnd and others the 25rnd?
There are two kinds, which AFAIK look the same. One is 10 (presumably, unlike gun toting Brits, this is for US states where there is a magazine capacity limit). The other is 25. Just make sure you get the 25. The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
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