The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
creampuff said:
There are two kinds, which AFAIK look the same. One is 10 (presumably, unlike gun toting Brits, this is for US states where there is a magazine capacity limit). The other is 25. Just make sure you get the 25.
The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
Its always interesting learning what gun-related things are restricted in different countries - so the UK doesn't limit mag size?The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
NZ limits mag size for semi-autos (7 rounds for centrefire or 15 for rimfire), unless its registered as a "military style semi-auto" which falls under a different licence category and requires a higher level of security etc.
We can own as many rifles as we like though and there is a heap of public land available to use them on, so I guess some of our rules are friendlier...
GravelBen said:
creampuff said:
There are two kinds, which AFAIK look the same. One is 10 (presumably, unlike gun toting Brits, this is for US states where there is a magazine capacity limit). The other is 25. Just make sure you get the 25.
The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
Its always interesting learning what gun-related things are restricted in different countries - so the UK doesn't limit mag size?The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
NZ limits mag size for semi-autos (7 rounds for centrefire or 15 for rimfire), unless its registered as a "military style semi-auto" which falls under a different licence category and requires a higher level of security etc.
We can own as many rifles as we like though and there is a heap of public land available to use them on, so I guess some of our rules are friendlier...
Mind you, how do you apply a mag-limit of 7, to say a Garand then?
GravelBen said:
We can own as many rifles as we like though and there is a heap of public land available to use them on, so I guess some of our rules are friendlier...
It is a PITA in the UK - your firearms certificate will tell you how you can use your firearms. This is based on the "good reason" you present for being allowed to own firearms. So, my good reason is that I belong to a rifle shooting club. Therefore, my firearms certificate states that my guns can only be used at my club or on other target ranges. What would be nice is if I could go down to a farm, set up some coke cans, water bottles, old furniture, melons etc etc and blast away at them with an assortment of guns all afternoon. That would be contrary to the conditions on my FAC, so cannot. You probably could do it with a shotgun though (subject to not being near a road blah blah) as they are much less regulated in the UK. I don't have an urge to go hunting, but I could not do that either despite owning guns and having an FAC, without having the FAC varied so that it allows it in addition to target shooting.
I also don't see the point of ammunition limits (bear in mind you need to have your ammo locked up in a safe). I have for example an allowance of 600 rounds of 38/357 ammo on my certificate. Why not just make it unlimited, subject to safe storage?
Your FAC also states what firearms you can own and you need a good reason for each of them. For instance I have 2 x .22s on my FAC. The good reason I presented was that I wanted a fun semi-automatic for wasting zombies (ok I did not actually mention the zombie part) and an accurate .22 for being able to put 5 bullets in the same hole and there is no gun which can do both. If I were to decide to sell one of the guns and buy another one exactly the same, I can't just do that. Even with a like-for-like replacement of a gun which you already have a slot for on your certificate, you need to send your certificate into the police for them to do whatever they do with it.
Like I said, a PITA and I doubt it makes things any safer for the public, it just makes it a PITA for legitimate firearms owners.
Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 23 May 09:34
GravelBen said:
NZ limits mag size for semi-autos (7 rounds for centrefire or 15 for rimfire), unless its registered as a "military style semi-auto" which falls under a different licence category and requires a higher level of security etc.
What do you have to do/what restrictions are there on non-military style semi autos and what are the additional restrictions on military style?creampuff said:
It is a PITA in the UK - your firearms certificate will tell you how you can use your firearms. This is based on the "good reason" you present for being allowed to own firearms. So, my good reason is that I belong to a rifle shooting club. Therefore, my firearms certificate states that my guns can only be used at my club or on other target ranges.
What would be nice is if I could go down to a farm, set up some coke cans, water bottles, old furniture, melons etc etc and blast away at them with an assortment of guns all afternoon. That would be contrary to the conditions on my FAC, so cannot. You probably could do it with a shotgun though (subject to not being near a road blah blah) as they are much less regulated in the UK. I don't have an urge to go hunting, but I could not do that either despite owning guns and having an FAC, without having the FAC varied so that it allows it in addition to target shooting.
>snip<
Like I said, a PITA and I doubt it makes things any safer for the public, it just makes it a PITA for legitimate firearms owners.
My FAC doesn't allow me to use a range other than for zeroing: You get what you ask for. If you want to go down a farm and get plinking, then apply for it. If you want to use your rifles anywhere, apply for converting your closed licence to an open one. It's not all that difficult, just a phonecall away, and depending on your police force, might cost £25...What would be nice is if I could go down to a farm, set up some coke cans, water bottles, old furniture, melons etc etc and blast away at them with an assortment of guns all afternoon. That would be contrary to the conditions on my FAC, so cannot. You probably could do it with a shotgun though (subject to not being near a road blah blah) as they are much less regulated in the UK. I don't have an urge to go hunting, but I could not do that either despite owning guns and having an FAC, without having the FAC varied so that it allows it in addition to target shooting.
>snip<
Like I said, a PITA and I doubt it makes things any safer for the public, it just makes it a PITA for legitimate firearms owners.
creampuff said:
I also don't see the point of ammunition limits (bear in mind you need to have your ammo locked up in a safe). I have for example an allowance of 600 rounds of 38/357 ammo on my certificate. Why not just make it unlimited, subject to safe storage?
Just to clarify that doesn't apply to SGC. There's no requirement to have the ammo locked up, although advised, and there's no limit on the amount of ammo, only the amount of explosives before you require a license for that under a different piece of legislation, which apparently equates to about 10,000 shotgun shells! creampuff said:
GravelBen said:
NZ limits mag size for semi-autos (7 rounds for centrefire or 15 for rimfire), unless its registered as a "military style semi-auto" which falls under a different licence category and requires a higher level of security etc.
What do you have to do/what restrictions are there on non-military style semi autos and what are the additional restrictions on military style?A : Regular licence, able to purchase and possess ammunition (no limit on quantity) and any firearms that aren't restricted to one of the other categories. It is the person that is licenced not the firearms, so once licenced you can own as many different firearms as you want (or can afford
). To get the licence involves a basic theory test on safety etc, police screening (ie no criminal record) and interviews with you and two referees (one family and one non family) to make sure you aren't a nut job. Also have to have a gun safe of reasonable standard which they inspect. B : Pistol/handgun - current definition is anything under 762mm length. Have to be part of a club and can only use them at approved ranges.
C : Collector - I don't know what other rules apply there.
D : Dealer - self explanatory.
E : MSSA - there are a few specific (and somewhat arbitrary) criteria for what makes a semi-auto rifle a MSSA. Mag capacity as mentioned above is one (IIRC it also includes mags that have the appearance of higher capacity), free standing pistol grips are E (but thumbholes are A), I think flash hiders are E-cat as well (though suppressors and muzzle brakes aren't). Not sure of all the details as I only have an A-cat licence. To get an E-cat licence involves more thorough police vetting, a much higher standard of safe (specified steel thickness, locks etc), and you have to give a reason why you want/need a firearm in that category. Common reasons being things like competition shooting and commercial pest control.
Here is an A-category AR15:
And here is an E-category, which is clearly much scarier...
E and B category firearms have to be registered to the owner by serial number, but there is no registration for A. However the police (and more vocally the police officers union) have been pushing for universal registration in recent years despite all evidence saying that it would be an enormous money-pit and achieve nothing useful, the police themselves having scrapped the previous registration system about 30 years ago.
You don't need a licence for air guns if you're over 18, between 16 and 18 you can have them with a licence.
Sounds like paradise compared to the UK. Can even get a short mag AR-15 on a basic licence 
Do you know if there is a magazine capacity limit if you have a licence for MSSA?
If you have a Category E licence, but buy a Category A gun, does the Cat A gun stay unregistered?
Do you know if there is a magazine capacity limit if you have a licence for MSSA?
If you have a Category E licence, but buy a Category A gun, does the Cat A gun stay unregistered?
Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 23 May 12:23
aeropilot said:
Don't forget, here in the UK, the mag capacity is really only pertinent to our rimfire semi-auto's as centre-fire semi-auto's have been banned here since 1988.
Mind you, how do you apply a mag-limit of 7, to say a Garand then?
Ah, I didn't know your centrefire semis were banned. How about semi-auto shotguns?Mind you, how do you apply a mag-limit of 7, to say a Garand then?
Not sure about Garands to be honest. If you have an A-cat licence and AR15 and got caught in possession of larger capacity magazines for it the police would come down on you pretty hard - you would probably lose your licence and guns at the minimum, with possible jail time or fines as well.
creampuff said:
Sounds like paradise compared to the UK. Can even get a short mag AR-15 on a basic licence
Do you know if there is a magazine capacity limit if you have a licence for MSSA?
If you have a Category E licence, but buy a Category A gun, does the Cat A gun stay unregistered?
I don't know of any capacity limit for E-cat, you probably get the odd person having a laugh with a drum mag on their 10/22!Do you know if there is a magazine capacity limit if you have a licence for MSSA?
If you have a Category E licence, but buy a Category A gun, does the Cat A gun stay unregistered?
As far as I know its only the E and B cat guns you own that need to be registered, your A's aren't relevant to that. But if you had an E-cat AR and an A-cat AR and got caught using a large mag in the A-cat I expect you'd find yourself in a fair bit of trouble.
As far as hunting goes, its very much an established part of the culture - I get the impression its often regarded as a rich man's sport in Europe, thats not the case at all here. Basically any wild introduced animal is classed as a pest and you can hunt it as long as you have permission from the landowner. Rabbits, possums, wallabies, goats, deer (of various flavours), chamois, tahr... all fair game. There might even be a few moose left in Fiordland from the handful introduced in the early days, but its a few decades since anyone saw one.
Around 30% of the country is public land and a reasonable proportion of that is also open for hunting, you just need a permit from the Dept of Conservation (which doesn't cost you anything, but its a bit annoying having to renew it every 3 months). Bird shooting is a bit more controlled with rules, seasons and bag limits etc.
GravelBen said:
aeropilot said:
Don't forget, here in the UK, the mag capacity is really only pertinent to our rimfire semi-auto's as centre-fire semi-auto's have been banned here since 1988.
Mind you, how do you apply a mag-limit of 7, to say a Garand then?
Ah, I didn't know your centrefire semis were banned. How about semi-auto shotguns?Mind you, how do you apply a mag-limit of 7, to say a Garand then?
Greater capacity semi-auto's and pumps are allowed, but they are classified as Section 1, so you need a Firearms Cert to own, not a Shotgun Cert.
creampuff said:
There are two kinds, which AFAIK look the same. One is 10 (presumably, unlike gun toting Brits, this is for US states where there is a magazine capacity limit). The other is 25. Just make sure you get the 25.
The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
Thanks, I'm aware of the difference, just wanted to clarify which actually came in the box with the rifle.The 25 seems to hold about 27. Useful if you spot multiple zombies on the range.
Reason being I'd like to have two 25rnd mags, so if it comes with a 10rnd I'll need to buy two, whereas if it comes with a 25rnd, I only need to buy one. If you get my drift.
Right, back to my ongoing search for a 38/357 lever action which I posed about a few pages back.
A used Winchester 94 has come up on Guntrader.
Advantages:
It's made in the US, so it is a bit more authentic cowboy, at least in my head. (some were imported from Japan but AFAIK all the 357s are American made)
Disadvantages:
Could get a new Rossi for the same price.
Been reading online that the Winchester 94 action was really made for rifle cartridges so they don't feed the pistol calibers smoothly; all the reviews talk about using 357s so if I use 38spls then there may be even more of a risk of feeding problems?
I'd either have to buy it unseen based on pictures or it would suck up a day of my time to look at it.
Anybody have experience of a 38/357 Winchester 94?
A used Winchester 94 has come up on Guntrader.
Advantages:
It's made in the US, so it is a bit more authentic cowboy, at least in my head. (some were imported from Japan but AFAIK all the 357s are American made)
Disadvantages:
Could get a new Rossi for the same price.
Been reading online that the Winchester 94 action was really made for rifle cartridges so they don't feed the pistol calibers smoothly; all the reviews talk about using 357s so if I use 38spls then there may be even more of a risk of feeding problems?
I'd either have to buy it unseen based on pictures or it would suck up a day of my time to look at it.
Anybody have experience of a 38/357 Winchester 94?
creampuff said:
Right, back to my ongoing search for a 38/357 lever action which I posed about a few pages back.
A used Winchester 94 has come up on Guntrader.
Advantages:
It's made in the US, so it is a bit more authentic cowboy, at least in my head. (some were imported from Japan but AFAIK all the 357s are American made)
Disadvantages:
Could get a new Rossi for the same price.
Been reading online that the Winchester 94 action was really made for rifle cartridges so they don't feed the pistol calibers smoothly; all the reviews talk about using 357s so if I use 38spls then there may be even more of a risk of feeding problems?
I'd either have to buy it unseen based on pictures or it would suck up a day of my time to look at it.
Anybody have experience of a 38/357 Winchester 94?
Yes, Winchester no longer offer the 94 in pistol calibre's, only rifle, so maybe that's why..?A used Winchester 94 has come up on Guntrader.
Advantages:
It's made in the US, so it is a bit more authentic cowboy, at least in my head. (some were imported from Japan but AFAIK all the 357s are American made)
Disadvantages:
Could get a new Rossi for the same price.
Been reading online that the Winchester 94 action was really made for rifle cartridges so they don't feed the pistol calibers smoothly; all the reviews talk about using 357s so if I use 38spls then there may be even more of a risk of feeding problems?
I'd either have to buy it unseen based on pictures or it would suck up a day of my time to look at it.
Anybody have experience of a 38/357 Winchester 94?
Only the 92 is offered in the typical pistol calibres now by Winchester. A guy in my club has a 92 in .38/.357, so can't really offer any comment on a 94, but, I have heard the same as you about the pistol calibre 94's having issues.
Any of the underlevers that use non-sleeved mag tubes can potentially have feeding issues in the .38/.357 calibre.
I'd still go with a new Rossi tbh....and send it to A&A once you've put 500 rounds through it.
creampuff said:
^ Have you any experience with the Chiappa copy?
Being Italian, at least I could pretend I'm in a spaghetti western if I can't have an American made gun...
Yes......just.Being Italian, at least I could pretend I'm in a spaghetti western if I can't have an American made gun...
Guy in my club has just got his FAC, and went out and bought one of these in .44mag.
https://www.chiappafirearms.com/p.php?id=123
Its not my thing, but it does seem well made, and did action nicely straight out the box, he'd only put about 30 rounds through it when I had a go.
If you want Italian........buy a 1873 Uberti, they are by far the best underlever in terms of quality and its action (but I'm biased
)Well I had a great redneck day out last week Took my 5yo son to the clay target ground where he loved pressing the button for the clays and then picking up the ejected cartridges. After that we went to the gun show at Bisley camp
Great selection of .303s at the Bisley gun show. I'll have to get one put on my ticket and buy one. Also had a look at a Chiappa 357 lever gun, but I thought a lot of the prices for used guns at the show were a bit optimistic. The Chiappa was £600 used in good condition, but you can buy a new one for about £700.
Took my 5yo son to the clay target ground where he loved pressing the button for the clays and then picking up the ejected cartridges. After that we went to the gun show at Bisley camp Great selection of .303s at the Bisley gun show. I'll have to get one put on my ticket and buy one. Also had a look at a Chiappa 357 lever gun, but I thought a lot of the prices for used guns at the show were a bit optimistic. The Chiappa was £600 used in good condition, but you can buy a new one for about £700.
creampuff said:
Great selection of .303s at the Bisley gun show. I'll have to get one put on my ticket and buy one.
I went yesterday, and there was a nice selection of No.3, No.4 and even a few No.5......and certainly more 303's than last years show. Saw a sweet rare Maltby No.4 which was very nice and quite reasonable for a Maltby.
Never seen a maltby one not even for sale. Was looking because of the local connection.
Anyway today I messed up. I swapped out the cabinet for a larger one so laid them all out in the bed.
Done my back in so asked the Mrs to hel manoeuvre it.
how many you got she asked with a slightly incredulous tone ? Just a few I say what's this one I've never seen this, oh just some old thing I got second hand...
Anyway today I messed up. I swapped out the cabinet for a larger one so laid them all out in the bed.
Done my back in so asked the Mrs to hel manoeuvre it.
how many you got she asked with a slightly incredulous tone ? Just a few I say what's this one I've never seen this, oh just some old thing I got second hand...
Pesty said:
Anyway today I messed up. I swapped out the cabinet for a larger one so laid them all out in the bed.
Done my back in so asked the Mrs to hel manoeuvre it.
how many you got she asked with a slightly incredulous tone ? Just a few I say what's this one I've never seen this, oh just some old thing I got second hand...
Done my back in so asked the Mrs to hel manoeuvre it.
how many you got she asked with a slightly incredulous tone ? Just a few I say what's this one I've never seen this, oh just some old thing I got second hand...
PS - Always come back with "how many shoes/handbags you got"
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