The professional cycling thread
Discussion
JustinF said:
Sky have done what Audi did to LMP1, they've taken the perceived logic, thrown it in the bin and applied new thought processes to every angle of the game.
Last year was should've, would've, could've for Sky but was also arguably the least competed GC in recent history, Nibali is already being roasted and we're only 10 stages in!
Lots of chat pre Tour about Nibali having done less race days and having a 'traditional' build up to the tour leaving room in the tank, of the GC guys he's being shown thus far as the most unprepared, the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
It's unlikely due to long race tactics but right now Sky could pull off a 1,2,3.
Also the first week was absolutely brutal no hiding in the bunch and letting the Sprinters do there thing it was very very hard workLast year was should've, would've, could've for Sky but was also arguably the least competed GC in recent history, Nibali is already being roasted and we're only 10 stages in!
Lots of chat pre Tour about Nibali having done less race days and having a 'traditional' build up to the tour leaving room in the tank, of the GC guys he's being shown thus far as the most unprepared, the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
It's unlikely due to long race tactics but right now Sky could pull off a 1,2,3.
JustinF said:
Sky have done what Audi did to LMP1, they've taken the perceived logic, thrown it in the bin and applied new thought processes to every angle of the game.
Last year was should've, would've, could've for Sky but was also arguably the least competed GC in recent history, Nibali is already being roasted and we're only 10 stages in!
Lots of chat pre Tour about Nibali having done less race days and having a 'traditional' build up to the tour leaving room in the tank, of the GC guys he's being shown thus far as the most unprepared, the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
It's unlikely due to long race tactics but right now Sky could pull off a 1,2,3.
Not sure I follow - Ettix-Quick Step are the only team along with Sky showing signs of a professional prep. So what are they doing that Astana, et al, are not, after all they provided grand tour winners in the past. Can you elaborate on what Quick Step are doing? Also this new 'thought process' - does it only apply to the Tour de France, or other stage races, bearing in mind Ritchie Porte's capitulation in this year's Giro. A race he has targeted since the end of last season. Last year was should've, would've, could've for Sky but was also arguably the least competed GC in recent history, Nibali is already being roasted and we're only 10 stages in!
Lots of chat pre Tour about Nibali having done less race days and having a 'traditional' build up to the tour leaving room in the tank, of the GC guys he's being shown thus far as the most unprepared, the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
It's unlikely due to long race tactics but right now Sky could pull off a 1,2,3.
Edited by mcelliott on Tuesday 14th July 23:27
JustinF said:
the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
Professional level of preparation ;-)Did Sky won the Giro, results/wins in the classics, other big races.....??? no...
Cycling is more than just the Tour de France.
DeltonaS said:
JustinF said:
the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
Professional level of preparation ;-)Did Sky won the Giro, results/wins in the classics, other big races.....??? no...
Cycling is more than just the Tour de France.
If your target is Le Tour then you don't contend the classics unless they fit the plan.
Of course, it could be that Sky don't have a clue what they're doing...
IroningMan said:
DeltonaS said:
JustinF said:
the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
Professional level of preparation ;-)Did Sky won the Giro, results/wins in the classics, other big races.....??? no...
Cycling is more than just the Tour de France.
If your target is Le Tour then you don't contend the classics unless they fit the plan.
Of course, it could be that Sky don't have a clue what they're doing...
So Sky is the only team that had a "profesional preperation" in the Peloton....;-)
And TeamSky consists of more than the 9 riders participating in the TDF; 28 te be exact. A bit much if you just focus on 1 event don't you think. So even for Sky cycling is more than just the TDF. Secondly if they are so much ahead of the game their other results should show that a little more don't you think.
Your answer comes from nowhere, first read all the comments, than make smartass comments.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Great so a British rider does something really special so he must be on Drugs FFS.
He has been training for this since he crashed out last year. Maybe he did it because others are not on them now ever thought of that.
Read what I wrote, ffs.He has been training for this since he crashed out last year. Maybe he did it because others are not on them now ever thought of that.
If anything, it's not Froome's performance that worries me. He's a bloody amazing climber, and the stats aren't anywhere near the crazy levels in the EPO era.
That was absolute domination. Last time I saw a fella who's been pretty good in one dayers match world class climbers on HC climbs was a time I'd rather forget.
As I stated, I hope I'm wrong - I even put all the caveats in my post to help justify things.
The whole 'they prepare better' argument is bulls
t. The amount of money and professionalism across the whole peloton is huge. Individual riders may not hit their peak at the right time, or have a bad day, but they all do pretty much the same prep.My current hope is that Froome felt good today (as said, his performance was great and not obviously dodgy), and Porte/G buried themselves to give him the best possible use of that feeling. We've seen him fade a little in the last week before, so good tactics.
If we see a very young, previous one day specialist, killing accomplished climbers like Valverde and Contador on HC climbs much more often, then I'm done. Losing five kilos doesn't turn you into a rocket up the mountains.
There are starting to be a lot of similarities to previous defences.
Better prep - LA/Trek
Weight loss - JU/LJ
Currently giving benefit of the doubt - I've followed Sky since inception, and pro cycling for a lot longer. This was the first performance that worried me, which is bloody brilliant. Just hope it doesn't become a regular thing. Too many bad memories for that.
Hmm, they stay in 2* hotels and this is regarded as normal until Sky turned up and said "are you fking joking?"
I must admit I'm very easily convinced that the Peloton is fairly badly organised and amateurishly run esp. When compared to how Sir Dave does it. There are just too many stories of how badly professional cycling is run, how lousy the admin is and also that the French deliberately want to have it like that, for "tradition".
The drugs aspect is a different story. The whole squad would have to be and it would have to be systematic with a central leader. The only figure again who could pull that off would be Sir Dave, certainly wouldn't be Froome. If DB is running a sophisticated highly organised doping scheme then given his wide involvement in things "somebody" in that network would be talking or past employees would.
king joking?"I must admit I'm very easily convinced that the Peloton is fairly badly organised and amateurishly run esp. When compared to how Sir Dave does it. There are just too many stories of how badly professional cycling is run, how lousy the admin is and also that the French deliberately want to have it like that, for "tradition".
The drugs aspect is a different story. The whole squad would have to be and it would have to be systematic with a central leader. The only figure again who could pull that off would be Sir Dave, certainly wouldn't be Froome. If DB is running a sophisticated highly organised doping scheme then given his wide involvement in things "somebody" in that network would be talking or past employees would.
I sort of echo your thoughts DJ, the continental teams in particular were known for turning up and riding, with little thought for anything else. That was a few years ago now, but eyes have been on Sky for a while and many of the methods were know about have been adopted wholesale.
They're also in 2* for the tour - ASO vetoed sleeping on the bus.
If anything has been least over the last decade, it's to keep any dodgy scheme to as few people as possible - four or five people total it's enough to make a difference.
As I keep saying, I'm on the fence. Prior to yesterday I wasn't. I wasn't in the Armstrong days either, but in the opposite way. Sold my lovely USPS Trek for a profit (!) after he made Pantani look like a sprinter crawling up a hill. Still miss that bike, but knew there would be a time when I would hate what the livery stood for.
I'll pipe down now. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one great day doesn't make a conspiracy. It'll be very interesting to watch what happens over the next fortnight. Multi climb stages especially, compared to yesterday's hockey stick.
They're also in 2* for the tour - ASO vetoed sleeping on the bus.
If anything has been least over the last decade, it's to keep any dodgy scheme to as few people as possible - four or five people total it's enough to make a difference.
As I keep saying, I'm on the fence. Prior to yesterday I wasn't. I wasn't in the Armstrong days either, but in the opposite way. Sold my lovely USPS Trek for a profit (!) after he made Pantani look like a sprinter crawling up a hill. Still miss that bike, but knew there would be a time when I would hate what the livery stood for.
I'll pipe down now. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one great day doesn't make a conspiracy. It'll be very interesting to watch what happens over the next fortnight. Multi climb stages especially, compared to yesterday's hockey stick.
Some Gump said:
That science in sport page is utter tosh. He's written a small essay and said nothing at all.
He predicted that Nibali would win this year's tour and has lots of av power calcs for various riders over the years, think it was 5.99w/kg for Nibali and said he had more to come.Now Froome has ridden at around 6.1w/kg he's saying it's outrageous and he must be doping, the guy is insane!
JustinF said:
Sky have done what Audi did to LMP1, they've taken the perceived logic, thrown it in the bin and applied new thought processes to every angle of the game.
Last year was should've, would've, could've for Sky but was also arguably the least competed GC in recent history, Nibali is already being roasted and we're only 10 stages in!
Lots of chat pre Tour about Nibali having done less race days and having a 'traditional' build up to the tour leaving room in the tank, of the GC guys he's being shown thus far as the most unprepared, the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
It's unlikely due to long race tactics but right now Sky could pull off a 1,2,3.
No Chance of that, Richie Porte has been taking it easy over the first week - he is currently in 79th position, 45 minutes down on Froome.Last year was should've, would've, could've for Sky but was also arguably the least competed GC in recent history, Nibali is already being roasted and we're only 10 stages in!
Lots of chat pre Tour about Nibali having done less race days and having a 'traditional' build up to the tour leaving room in the tank, of the GC guys he's being shown thus far as the most unprepared, the game is moving on and the other Tour teams are still playing catch-up, only Ettix-Quick Step show signs of the professional level of preparation but they've been blighted by crashes.
It's unlikely due to long race tactics but right now Sky could pull off a 1,2,3.
Porte is a good climber and possible GC contender in his own right, but for this tour he is Froome's domestique. At the start of the stage he was 44 minutes down in 144th place, this goes a long way to explaining why he had fresher legs than a lot of GC contenders.
Edited by jesusbuiltmycar on Wednesday 15th July 08:45
Sway said:
Read what I wrote, ffs.
If anything, it's not Froome's performance that worries me. He's a bloody amazing climber, and the stats aren't anywhere near the crazy levels in the EPO era.
That was absolute domination. Last time I saw a fella who's been pretty good in one dayers match world class climbers on HC climbs was a time I'd rather forget.
As I stated, I hope I'm wrong - I even put all the caveats in my post to help justify things.
The whole 'they prepare better' argument is bullst. The amount of money and professionalism across the whole peloton is huge. Individual riders may not hit their peak at the right time, or have a bad day, but they all do pretty much the same prep.
My current hope is that Froome felt good today (as said, his performance was great and not obviously dodgy), and Porte/G buried themselves to give him the best possible use of that feeling. We've seen him fade a little in the last week before, so good tactics.
If we see a very young, previous one day specialist, killing accomplished climbers like Valverde and Contador on HC climbs much more often, then I'm done. Losing five kilos doesn't turn you into a rocket up the mountains.
There are starting to be a lot of similarities to previous defences.
Better prep - LA/Trek
Weight loss - JU/LJ
Currently giving benefit of the doubt - I've followed Sky since inception, and pro cycling for a lot longer. This was the first performance that worried me, which is bloody brilliant. Just hope it doesn't become a regular thing. Too many bad memories for that.
if your on the fence you dont make insinuations. If anything, it's not Froome's performance that worries me. He's a bloody amazing climber, and the stats aren't anywhere near the crazy levels in the EPO era.
That was absolute domination. Last time I saw a fella who's been pretty good in one dayers match world class climbers on HC climbs was a time I'd rather forget.
As I stated, I hope I'm wrong - I even put all the caveats in my post to help justify things.
The whole 'they prepare better' argument is bulls
t. The amount of money and professionalism across the whole peloton is huge. Individual riders may not hit their peak at the right time, or have a bad day, but they all do pretty much the same prep.My current hope is that Froome felt good today (as said, his performance was great and not obviously dodgy), and Porte/G buried themselves to give him the best possible use of that feeling. We've seen him fade a little in the last week before, so good tactics.
If we see a very young, previous one day specialist, killing accomplished climbers like Valverde and Contador on HC climbs much more often, then I'm done. Losing five kilos doesn't turn you into a rocket up the mountains.
There are starting to be a lot of similarities to previous defences.
Better prep - LA/Trek
Weight loss - JU/LJ
Currently giving benefit of the doubt - I've followed Sky since inception, and pro cycling for a lot longer. This was the first performance that worried me, which is bloody brilliant. Just hope it doesn't become a regular thing. Too many bad memories for that.
I didn't insinuate, I stated my gut reaction to watching the stage, and stated how I hoped that was wrong - and have given multiple reasons why it's likely I am...
What I certainly didn't write, which your first reply stated, was 'he can't be that good unless he's doping cause he's British'.
That's my final comment on the matter, looking forward to watching the Tourmalet today, have ridden that bd a couple of times and the descent is fun!
What I certainly didn't write, which your first reply stated, was 'he can't be that good unless he's doping cause he's British'.
That's my final comment on the matter, looking forward to watching the Tourmalet today, have ridden that b
d a couple of times and the descent is fun!From my point of view, I took it that Movistar did a lot of the work on the first half of the climb to test Sky and the others, NQ confirmed that post race.
I suspect AV probably burnt himself out trying to push on and hence finishing at the same time as GT, who I admit did put in a monster effort.
Porte didn't do that much work on the front for Froome and other than stage 4 has been quite quiet so guess he had a good feeling too, his post race interview confirmed he had sat up and was content to spin the rest of the climb away when he was told to press on and take the bonus seconds away from NQ.
Sky have re-jigged their lead out train so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out today, I reckon Konig will be the main man positioning Froome today.
I suspect AV probably burnt himself out trying to push on and hence finishing at the same time as GT, who I admit did put in a monster effort.
Porte didn't do that much work on the front for Froome and other than stage 4 has been quite quiet so guess he had a good feeling too, his post race interview confirmed he had sat up and was content to spin the rest of the climb away when he was told to press on and take the bonus seconds away from NQ.
Sky have re-jigged their lead out train so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out today, I reckon Konig will be the main man positioning Froome today.
DeltonaS said:
Really ;-)
Yes, really. No, not ;-).DeltonaS said:
So Sky is the only team that had a "profesional preperation" in the Peloton....;-)
No, that's not what I said. But they are some way ahead of all of the others, and a long way ahead of some of the others.DeltonaS said:
And TeamSky consists of more than the 9 riders participating in the TDF; 28 te be exact. A bit much if you just focus on 1 event don't you think. So even for Sky cycling is more than just the TDF.
How many GC contenders do they have? So how many Grand Tours do you expect them to target for the win? Do you seriously think every team enters every race with the aim of winning it? DeltonaS said:
Secondly if they are so much ahead of the game their other results should show that a little more don't you think.
Perhaps you'd like to point out a setup that's performed better than British Cycling & Sky over the past few years?DeltonaS said:
Your answer comes from nowhere, first read all the comments, than make smartass comments.
None taken.IroningMan said:
None taken.
Sky was formed to win the TDF with a British Rider job done and it looks like it will be 3 wins in 4 years so Bravo Sky but most of all Dave Brailsford and his team.The TDF is one of the great sporting events in the world it attracts people that have no interest in cycling and it gets bigger audiences each year.
I still love the Spring Classics but the TDF is on another plane to any other cycling event.
Sway said:
I sort of echo your thoughts DJ, the continental teams in particular were known for turning up and riding, with little thought for anything else. That was a few years ago now, but eyes have been on Sky for a while and many of the methods were know about have been adopted wholesale.
They're also in 2* for the tour - ASO vetoed sleeping on the bus.
If anything has been least over the last decade, it's to keep any dodgy scheme to as few people as possible - four or five people total it's enough to make a difference.
As I keep saying, I'm on the fence. Prior to yesterday I wasn't. I wasn't in the Armstrong days either, but in the opposite way. Sold my lovely USPS Trek for a profit (!) after he made Pantani look like a sprinter crawling up a hill. Still miss that bike, but knew there would be a time when I would hate what the livery stood for.
I'll pipe down now. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one great day doesn't make a conspiracy. It'll be very interesting to watch what happens over the next fortnight. Multi climb stages especially, compared to yesterday's hockey stick.
I get what you are saying *but* that was an ill Pantani.They're also in 2* for the tour - ASO vetoed sleeping on the bus.
If anything has been least over the last decade, it's to keep any dodgy scheme to as few people as possible - four or five people total it's enough to make a difference.
As I keep saying, I'm on the fence. Prior to yesterday I wasn't. I wasn't in the Armstrong days either, but in the opposite way. Sold my lovely USPS Trek for a profit (!) after he made Pantani look like a sprinter crawling up a hill. Still miss that bike, but knew there would be a time when I would hate what the livery stood for.
I'll pipe down now. One swallow doesn't make a summer, one great day doesn't make a conspiracy. It'll be very interesting to watch what happens over the next fortnight. Multi climb stages especially, compared to yesterday's hockey stick.
The day Marco burned EVERYBODY including Mig on his first burst onto the Tour will live long long long in my memory. A healthy Marco Pantani on a mountain will forever remain my great romantic Tour thought.
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