The professional cycling thread

[_dobbo_]

Leithen said:

Better to have a derny ridden by someone experienced, accelerating over the line, pulling off immediately, and the rule stating that no part of a competitors bike can overlap any part of the derny before the line. After the line then it's the derny rider's problem to get out of the way. And of course a proper photo camera on the line.

Well, quite. The fact was it all seemed like a situation they weren't prepared for, hence my comment about whether the bike is maxed out which was causing the problem.

Thing is, where was the lack of experience - the derny bike or the guy firing the gun highlighting the infraction?

Either way I think there might be some rule clarifications for the next major track event!

[Leithen]

_dobbo_ said:

Thing is, where was the lack of experience - the derny bike or the guy firing the gun highlighting the infraction?

The derny bike rider. Bonkers!

[The Mad Monk]

Leithen said:

_dobbo_ said:

What a mess with the derny bike in the Keirin final, after letting Kenny and Awang get away with it they had no choice but to let Eilers off as well.

I wonder if those electric bikes just can't go any faster so the derny rider couldn't pile on any more speed as he was leaving the track.

I note that some of the athletes and coaches from other countries are starting to question how GB are so successful at the Olympics when they aren't at other events. Not sure it's helpful casting aspersions like that, perhaps they are suggesting there is some sort of super secret doping program that British Cycling saves just for the Olympics but doesn't bother using for other events.

They couldn't provide anything near conclusive evidence that any of the riders had "passed" the derny though. Repeated slow motion of various angles were inconclusive.

The rule wording is so vague with regards to bikes, wheels, exit point etc that they had no choice but to reset with all involved. Had they placed a photo finish camera setup at any point, then they would have been able to exclude using their own interpretation, but it still would have been open to challenge and deeply unsatisfactory. A rewrite is needed.

Better to have a derny ridden by someone experienced, accelerating over the line, pulling off immediately, and the rule stating that no part of a competitors bike can overlap any part of the derny before the line. After the line then it's the derny rider's problem to get out of the way. And of course a proper photo camera on the line.

Or:-

Better still, cancel the whole dopey Keirin event.

I mean, who devised that?

[blade runner]

The Mad Monk said:

I mean, who devised that?

The Japanese

[Trabi601]

NerveAgent said:

Trott and Kenny are going to start running out of places to hang medals!!

Trott is the stand out for me, she is a different league from her opponents

You have to feel for her, though - 4 Olympic golds and she's not even the most successful Olympian in her house!

[Rich_W]

blade runner said:

The Mad Monk said:

I mean, who devised that?

The Japanese

True Fact:

Keirin was added to the Olympic programme a short time after the Japanese Keirin association made a substantial (rumoured something like $3M) to the UCI.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Rich_W said:

blade runner said:

The Mad Monk said:

I mean, who devised that?

The Japanese

True Fact:

Keirin was added to the Olympic programme a short time after the Japanese Keirin association made a substantial (rumoured something like $3M) to the UCI.

The Madison is a much better spectacle, and the 4k individual pursuit a much bigger athletic test. And why does swimming have so many gold medals but cycling got the number of events reduced enormously at Beijing?

[johnxjsc1985]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

The Madison is a much better spectacle, and the 4k individual pursuit a much bigger athletic test. And why does swimming have so many gold medals but cycling got the number of events reduced enormously at Beijing?

losing the 4k pursuit was the equivalent of taking out the 1500m in Athletics it would never happen. Funny that two of our nailed on Golds were removed.

[_dobbo_]

I remember going to the velodrome in Ghent when I was a kid about 25 years ago and thinking the kierin was pretty nuts even then. But it was a "proper" derny bike none of this electric rubbish.

Agree the Madison is better but it's perhaps a little harder to follow for the layperson, and track cycling already has some confusing events!

[johnxjsc1985]

_dobbo_ said:

I remember going to the velodrome in Ghent when I was a kid about 25 years ago and thinking the kierin was pretty nuts even then. But it was a "proper" derny bike none of this electric rubbish.

Agree the Madison is better but it's perhaps a little harder to follow for the layperson, and track cycling already has some confusing events!

no more so than the hop skip and Jump. The swimmers have untold time for their schedule its nonsense that anyone can win as many medals as the like of Phelps it would be like giving Bolt the chance to win the 25m sprint right through to 200m in 25m increments . We definitely need the Pursuit back

[The Mad Monk]

_dobbo_ said:

I remember going to the velodrome in Ghent when I was a kid about 25 years ago and thinking the kierin was pretty nuts even then. But it was a "proper" derny bike none of this electric rubbish.

Agree the Madison is better but it's perhaps a little harder to follow for the layperson, and track cycling already has some confusing events!

I remember going to Staines stadium to watch Reg Harris race Arie van Vliet.

How long ago was that?

http://www.simonlewis.com/sc5.html scroll down to Staines.

Edited by The Mad Monk on Thursday 18th August 10:07

[jesusbuiltmycar]

I was watching the BMX time trial / seeding yesterday and wondered why they don't use a bigger gear and don't have any aero... Marginal Gains that could be expoited?

[JustinF]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

I was watching the BMX time trial / seeding yesterday and wondered why they don't use a bigger gear and don't have any aero... Marginal Gains that could be expoited?

No expert but I think positioning into turn one is key, thus the gear choice favours acceleration over top end.

[johnxjsc1985]

The Mad Monk said:

I remember going to Staines stadium to watch Reg Harris race Arie van Vliet.

How long ago was that?

http://www.simonlewis.com/sc5.html scroll down to Staines.

Edited by The Mad Monk on Thursday 18th August 10:07

I met the great man back in the 70's when I was just a lad. He was having a pint and smoking his pipe around the time he made a come back.

[Antony Moxey]

How about running the Kierin without the derney and letting the riders decide on the speed for themselves? I would have thought it would still produce exciting mass sprints.

And if we're talking about removing events, I'd bin the Omnium. I know what you'll say about testing a rider over a number of disciplines but to be honest I was as bored as I was confused watching 150-odd laps of bikes dancing up and down the banking for no apparent reason with sprint points being dished out all over the place.

But whatever, watching the track cycling has definitely been the highlight for me, with swimming not far behind. If only the althletics could justify both its funding and air time compared to the other sports and its relatively poor medal showing (although given the hype and coverage I'd assumed Usain Bolt had suddenly become British for the shortest and dullest event in the Olympic programme).

[joema]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

I was watching the BMX time trial / seeding yesterday and wondered why they don't use a bigger gear and don't have any aero... Marginal Gains that could be expoited?

Lycra is against the rules (thankfully). Also got to think about crash protection, lycra doesnt offer much... Same boat for everyone.

Gearing is a balance between acceleration for the small areas where they can pedal and top end. Disadvantaged if you go too far each way so theres a sweet spot.

Phillips looks to be out (no pun intended) of it sadly

[Talksteer]

Antony Moxey said:

How about running the Kierin without the derney and letting the riders decide on the speed for themselves? I would have thought it would still produce exciting mass sprints.

And if we're talking about removing events, I'd bin the Omnium. I know what you'll say about testing a rider over a number of disciplines but to be honest I was as bored as I was confused watching 150-odd laps of bikes dancing up and down the banking for no apparent reason with sprint points being dished out all over the place.

But whatever, watching the track cycling has definitely been the highlight for me, with swimming not far behind. If only the althletics could justify both its funding and air time compared to the other sports and its relatively poor medal showing (although given the hype and coverage I'd assumed Usain Bolt had suddenly become British for the shortest and dullest event in the Olympic programme).

The kierin is designed to produce close results in a short time for betting. If you didn't have the Derny it would be like a multi way match sprint which would be dangerous as hell and subject much more to collusion.

Riders playing fair would need an acceleration gear, whereas riders colluding could have one lead the other out leaving the others under geared.

If you want a race to be a bunch sprint without a Derny it needs to be at least 15 laps.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Antony Moxey said:

How about running the Kierin without the derney and letting the riders decide on the speed for themselves? I would have thought it would still produce exciting mass sprints.

And if we're talking about removing events, I'd bin the Omnium. I know what you'll say about testing a rider over a number of disciplines but to be honest I was as bored as I was confused watching 150-odd laps of bikes dancing up and down the banking for no apparent reason with sprint points being dished out all over the place.

But whatever, watching the track cycling has definitely been the highlight for me, with swimming not far behind. If only the althletics could justify both its funding and air time compared to the other sports and its relatively poor medal showing (although given the hype and coverage I'd assumed Usain Bolt had suddenly become British for the shortest and dullest event in the Olympic programme).

If I may be so bold you need to learn the rules. The points race is utterly captivating - either standalone or as a part of the omnium.

[johnxjsc1985]

I wouldn't change the track programme other than to extend it to include the kilo and the individual Pursuit.
Track cycling began its new Era when Manchester Velodrome opened and lottery funding meant they could bring everyone together in Manchester . The coaching staff are just incredible and deserve a gold medal for the way they bring the cyclists to the Olympics on top form much to the annoyance of the Germans and the French and not forgetting the Aussies.
Just heard Cav saying they used old equipment in London for the Worlds some as old as 8 years .

[Antony Moxey]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Antony Moxey said:

How about running the Kierin without the derney and letting the riders decide on the speed for themselves? I would have thought it would still produce exciting mass sprints.

And if we're talking about removing events, I'd bin the Omnium. I know what you'll say about testing a rider over a number of disciplines but to be honest I was as bored as I was confused watching 150-odd laps of bikes dancing up and down the banking for no apparent reason with sprint points being dished out all over the place.

But whatever, watching the track cycling has definitely been the highlight for me, with swimming not far behind. If only the althletics could justify both its funding and air time compared to the other sports and its relatively poor medal showing (although given the hype and coverage I'd assumed Usain Bolt had suddenly become British for the shortest and dullest event in the Olympic programme).

If I may be so bold you need to learn the rules. The points race is utterly captivating - either standalone or as a part of the omnium.

Yep, concede your point but a poster above mentioned the Madison but perhaps it might not be an acceptable event as it might be too complicated. As I said, I was utterly captivated by the cycling but the Omnium points race was a bore. Far too long, far too complicated and probably, generally, not a great watch all round. Happy to accept that's probably down to my ignorance, but it does stick out compared to the excitement of the other races.