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Sir Dave has said himself that they just didn't expect that attack and to be honest, how many of us called it? Very very few I suspect because it was only obvious once it had happened.
credit to tinkoff for animating it and making the move stick but to say that sky got it wrong really takes everything away from the teams who took a gamble. Sky didn't lose it that day, movistar won it...
credit to tinkoff for animating it and making the move stick but to say that sky got it wrong really takes everything away from the teams who took a gamble. Sky didn't lose it that day, movistar won it...
pablo said:
Sir Dave has said himself that they just didn't expect that attack and to be honest, how many of us called it? Very very few I suspect because it was only obvious once it had happened.
credit to tinkoff for animating it and making the move stick but to say that sky got it wrong really takes everything away from the teams who took a gamble. Sky didn't lose it that day, movistar won it...
I see your point but seriously, sky should have been 'marking' the situation.credit to tinkoff for animating it and making the move stick but to say that sky got it wrong really takes everything away from the teams who took a gamble. Sky didn't lose it that day, movistar won it...
Agreed that it was a very shrewd move to attack and make it stick from the outset. Not seen that often.
Dr Imran T said:
I see your point but seriously, sky should have been 'marking' the situation.
Agreed that it was a very shrewd move to attack and make it stick from the outset. Not seen that often.
How hard is it to form tactics surely they only had one " see the little bloke in the Red follow him everywhere".Agreed that it was a very shrewd move to attack and make it stick from the outset. Not seen that often.
Steve Cummins looking to have his best day on a bike tomorrow surely the TOB is his now what a great few years he has had.
Well when all is said and done I think sky and Froome were just too beaten up by the start of the third week to be a threat. The TT was sensational but Quintana looked so fresh on the last real stage that Froome would have needed at least thirty seconds on him. Credit to movistar and valverde in particular. Pleased for Chaves too and that last stage heroics from Howson want in vain.
Giro de Lombardia and the worlds to go, I think lombardia will go to form and a big classics rider like Van Avermaet or Dan Martin will take it. Worlds could be very hard to call, on paper it's a traditional bunch sprint but I'm sure there will be wind issues and echelons could form, a lucky break with some opportunists in it could prevail.
Giro de Lombardia and the worlds to go, I think lombardia will go to form and a big classics rider like Van Avermaet or Dan Martin will take it. Worlds could be very hard to call, on paper it's a traditional bunch sprint but I'm sure there will be wind issues and echelons could form, a lucky break with some opportunists in it could prevail.
pablo said:
Well when all is said and done I think sky and Froome were just too beaten up by the start of the third week to be a threat. The TT was sensational but Quintana looked so fresh on the last real stage that Froome would have needed at least thirty seconds on him. Credit to movistar and valverde in particular. Pleased for Chaves too and that last stage heroics from Howson want in vain.
Giro de Lombardia and the worlds to go, I think lombardia will go to form and a big classics rider like Van Avermaet or Dan Martin will take it. Worlds could be very hard to call, on paper it's a traditional bunch sprint but I'm sure there will be wind issues and echelons could form, a lucky break with some opportunists in it could prevail.
Tour of Lombardy is my favourite race and Dan Martin must be in with a chance if he has form and I wonder how hungry Cav really is to win another Rainbow jersey.Giro de Lombardia and the worlds to go, I think lombardia will go to form and a big classics rider like Van Avermaet or Dan Martin will take it. Worlds could be very hard to call, on paper it's a traditional bunch sprint but I'm sure there will be wind issues and echelons could form, a lucky break with some opportunists in it could prevail.
pablo said:
Well when all is said and done I think sky and Froome were just too beaten up by the start of the third week to be a threat. The TT was sensational but Quintana looked so fresh on the last real stage that Froome would have needed at least thirty seconds on him. Credit to movistar and valverde in particular. Pleased for Chaves too and that last stage heroics from Howson want in vain.
Giro de Lombardia and the worlds to go, I think lombardia will go to form and a big classics rider like Van Avermaet or Dan Martin will take it. Worlds could be very hard to call, on paper it's a traditional bunch sprint but I'm sure there will be wind issues and echelons could form, a lucky break with some opportunists in it could prevail.
Froome finished way ahead of his sky team mates on stage 15. He actually had the legs throughout the vuelta and was very very evenly match to Quintana - right to the end.Giro de Lombardia and the worlds to go, I think lombardia will go to form and a big classics rider like Van Avermaet or Dan Martin will take it. Worlds could be very hard to call, on paper it's a traditional bunch sprint but I'm sure there will be wind issues and echelons could form, a lucky break with some opportunists in it could prevail.
Even froome acknowledged that stage 15 was a mistake and one that they have learnt from and won't make again.
Agreed the rest of the team were very tired but I'm sure they will do things differently in the future if the same scenario arises.
Was indeed cool to see Chaves on the podium
Almost running out of superlatives for the Vuelta - it was as Gary Imlach put it, 'the best'.
Interesting to see that NQ heads the UCI points rankings. Sagan wasn't too far behind.
epom said:
His docs should check that out.
They should indeed, maybe find out why he's always talking s
t. Meanwhile, Jeroen Swart sticks the boot in for Wiggins and Sky - http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-contro...Wiggins was in the press a week or so ago with a lot to say about Lizzie Armistead missing her tests.
A very short while later he's shown to have lied in his autobiography about injecting steroids, the timing of said injections being "unfortunate" with one instance having been just before his tour win.
Now I think that WADA are probably rock solid on the validity of these exemptions and as a result and so is Wiggins as far as his results standing.
But, it's a real shame, cycling was just getting past most of the headline doping scandal stuff and now this mess, which does not play well in the press.
I feel fairly certain Wiggins and Froome are probably both above board, as I have high confidence in Brailsford and British cycling. Perhaps I'm naive in that belief but I hope not. Certainly WADA think so, and this leak is an attack on WADA as much as anything.
So for me the issue is not that Wiggins took the substance it's the lies surrounding it and his stance on other riders who have had infractions. Wiggins has dropped in my estimation a lot with this - why mouth off about Armistead when you've got skeletons in your own closet?
A very short while later he's shown to have lied in his autobiography about injecting steroids, the timing of said injections being "unfortunate" with one instance having been just before his tour win.
Now I think that WADA are probably rock solid on the validity of these exemptions and as a result and so is Wiggins as far as his results standing.
But, it's a real shame, cycling was just getting past most of the headline doping scandal stuff and now this mess, which does not play well in the press.
I feel fairly certain Wiggins and Froome are probably both above board, as I have high confidence in Brailsford and British cycling. Perhaps I'm naive in that belief but I hope not. Certainly WADA think so, and this leak is an attack on WADA as much as anything.
So for me the issue is not that Wiggins took the substance it's the lies surrounding it and his stance on other riders who have had infractions. Wiggins has dropped in my estimation a lot with this - why mouth off about Armistead when you've got skeletons in your own closet?
mcelliott said:
epom said:
His docs should check that out.
They should indeed, maybe find out why he's always talking st. Meanwhile, Jeroen Swart sticks the boot in for Wiggins and Sky - http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-contro...
Granfondo said:
mcelliott said:
epom said:
His docs should check that out.
They should indeed, maybe find out why he's always talking st. Meanwhile, Jeroen Swart sticks the boot in for Wiggins and Sky - http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-contro...Obviously Fancy Bears aren't brave enough to delve into TinkOff our Katushas record though are they....
TUEs will always remain a grey area, you can't prevent someone from competing if they need treatment for a preexisting condition like Simone Biles but I wholly agree it's the timing of Wiggins' TUEs that look bad.
The problem is the whole peloton could have applied for the same TUE at the same time, and indeed I imagine a good number did, but they are quite content to sit back and let the spotlight fall on Sky. If the teams work together and all release their TUE applications it would help the fans know what's going on. Obviously the UCI and WADA know what TUEs were granted their the peloton over the years but in their seven years history, Sky have applied for just 13 TUEs to date so I don't think they can be accused of exploiting the system
TUEs will always remain a grey area, you can't prevent someone from competing if they need treatment for a preexisting condition like Simone Biles but I wholly agree it's the timing of Wiggins' TUEs that look bad.
The problem is the whole peloton could have applied for the same TUE at the same time, and indeed I imagine a good number did, but they are quite content to sit back and let the spotlight fall on Sky. If the teams work together and all release their TUE applications it would help the fans know what's going on. Obviously the UCI and WADA know what TUEs were granted their the peloton over the years but in their seven years history, Sky have applied for just 13 TUEs to date so I don't think they can be accused of exploiting the system
_dobbo_ said:
Wiggins was in the press a week or so ago with a lot to say about Lizzie Armistead missing her tests.
A very short while later he's shown to have lied in his autobiography about injecting steroids, the timing of said injections being "unfortunate" with one instance having been just before his tour win.
Now I think that WADA are probably rock solid on the validity of these exemptions and as a result and so is Wiggins as far as his results standing.
But, it's a real shame, cycling was just getting past most of the headline doping scandal stuff and now this mess, which does not play well in the press.
I feel fairly certain Wiggins and Froome are probably both above board, as I have high confidence in Brailsford and British cycling. Perhaps I'm naive in that belief but I hope not. Certainly WADA think so, and this leak is an attack on WADA as much as anything.
So for me the issue is not that Wiggins took the substance it's the lies surrounding it and his stance on other riders who have had infractions. Wiggins has dropped in my estimation a lot with this - why mouth off about Armistead when you've got skeletons in your own closet?
I'm not comfy with the tue system, BUT its legal. (Hopefully it will get tightened up sooner rather than later. What Armistead did though, was break the rules. (And then bend them out of shape to be let off - which gripes!) So not sure it's quite the same.A very short while later he's shown to have lied in his autobiography about injecting steroids, the timing of said injections being "unfortunate" with one instance having been just before his tour win.
Now I think that WADA are probably rock solid on the validity of these exemptions and as a result and so is Wiggins as far as his results standing.
But, it's a real shame, cycling was just getting past most of the headline doping scandal stuff and now this mess, which does not play well in the press.
I feel fairly certain Wiggins and Froome are probably both above board, as I have high confidence in Brailsford and British cycling. Perhaps I'm naive in that belief but I hope not. Certainly WADA think so, and this leak is an attack on WADA as much as anything.
So for me the issue is not that Wiggins took the substance it's the lies surrounding it and his stance on other riders who have had infractions. Wiggins has dropped in my estimation a lot with this - why mouth off about Armistead when you've got skeletons in your own closet?
mcelliott said:
What has come out of this though, and is abundantly clear, is that Wiggins has a problem with the truth - i.e. telling it. Doesn't look good if you want to portray yourself as a clean champion, marginal gains my arse.
I'm not sure I wholly agree. I don't think his book can be taken as gospel because so much of it will be ghost written. Sure Wiggins had to sign it all off given his name is on the front but he will have been working with a reputable cycling journalist who will have already known 95% of the story.Again Sky put themselves up as the standard and have s
t thrown at them but teams like Astana just keep their heads down. After all, once the Leinders thing was questioned, sky did that purge and asked everyone if they had anything to hide which led to the confession from Michael Barry! I'm not defending Sky or Wiggins, I just feel that their original ethos was honorable but flawed and now they are getting a lot of flack when teams with riders who are failing tests, Vini Fantini et al, still seem to be able to compete.Rich_W said:
I'm not comfy with the tue system, BUT its legal. (Hopefully it will get tightened up sooner rather than later. What Armistead did though, was break the rules. (And then bend them out of shape to be let off - which gripes!) So not sure it's quite the same.
Apologies, for clarity I wasn't comparing the severity of the infraction. What I was trying to say was I dislike the fact that Wiggins commented on the situation with Armistead. I'd prefer he had either told the truth in his book or kept his mouth shut about Armistead. Instead what we have is a global cycling star speaking out on doping and then having this crap come out a week later totally undermining his comments and (for me) his reputation.
I've read the response and "explanation" that came out today from the Wiggins camp. The defence of the statements in his autobiography do not inspire confidence for me.
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