General cricket thread
Discussion
London424 said:
unrepentant said:
London424 said:
Reading Vaughan's column today I didn't get the impression he undermined anyone in that team...respect and undermining of players goes both ways.
Seriously? You don't feel that texting disparaging remaarks about your own captain to the opposition that you are currently playing is undermining your team?
who was disliked by his colleagues wherever he went? His passing was hardly mourned in South Africa or in Notts, Hants or Surrey was it? He even played for 3 different IPL teams.unrepentant said:
Hmm... Maybe the reason for the Twittings was that Pietersen is a complete who was disliked by his colleagues wherever he went? His passing was hardly mourned in South Africa or in Notts, Hants or Surrey was it? He even played for 3 different IPL teams.
Apart from the fact he's well like by plenty of players...just not those in the team that didn't like that they weren't the centre of attention. who was disliked by his colleagues wherever he went? His passing was hardly mourned in South Africa or in Notts, Hants or Surrey was it? He even played for 3 different IPL teams.Have you seen the 'dossier' that been leaked...thoughts?
hornetrider said:
And now the ECB have leaked the dossier regarding KPs behaviour to cricinfo ffs. Cannot believe they've done that, it's amateur night.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/curren...
A bit of whistling, a few naughty words, a desire to lighten the mood, some comments about rubbishness. And that's all they have on KP?http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/curren...
Can't believe he got sacked on that.
On one hand the ECB did nothing to stop the parody account on twitter mocking KP yet in the dossier they expected KP to tell Piers Morgan to stop slagging off England players as it wasn't good for team morale. They moan about him going out clubbing yet Broad was in the papers doing the same that night and he's hardly a junior player led astray.
Gargamel said:
spikeyhead said:
There's no doubt that the management hasn't been perfect for a while. Failing to learn lessons from Tresc and seeing Trott heading the same way, taking Swann on tour when he could no longer spin the ball and numerous other examples all point to some basics being missed.
But also, KP clearly needed some stability, and wanted his Wife to come on tour, who the hell are the management to tell him this isn't acceptable. Though I can see why some might think 'wives on your is fine' it will ultimately cause issues as players want to go do some 'holidaying' with the wife. It's a few months. Spend it with your teammates.*
The best thing about these relevations is the reminder of the 5-0 whitewash.
- Of course, this doesn't work when you're a foreign ringer who is picked to make runs but has no bond with the 'countrymen' in the changeroom.
Is this dossier the best that the ECB can do? Dear me.... They really are hopeless; them and their stooges in the media. I can't take any of them seriously anymore. Why not remember their job, and really investigate what the ECB and management have been doing? But then they'd get chucked off the gravy train.....
johnfm said:
Seriously? They're the management. It is an international cricket tour, not a family holiday. So much is made of 'how hard it is on the players' to tour...all those 5 star hotels and running around playing must be a killer...
Though I can see why some might think 'wives on your is fine' it will ultimately cause issues as players want to go do some 'holidaying' with the wife. It's a few months. Spend it with your teammates.*
The best thing about these relevations is the reminder of the 5-0 whitewash.
bThough I can see why some might think 'wives on your is fine' it will ultimately cause issues as players want to go do some 'holidaying' with the wife. It's a few months. Spend it with your teammates.*
The best thing about these relevations is the reminder of the 5-0 whitewash.
- Of course, this doesn't work when you're a foreign ringer who is picked to make runs but has no bond with the 'countrymen' in the changeroom.
ks, Loads of pro sportspeople have their family when the go away to play. He isn't a cricketer 24/7 365. I don't see the issue. Seeing pictures of some really ill at ease 'team mates' going to Ayers Rock or something for RandR on tour is just deeply tragic. Anyway, what business is it of the team managers? He is paid to play, not to have his entire life ruled by old gits in blazers.
If the dressing room can't accommodate a player, the captain needs to sort it out, Vaughan clearly did, Strauss and Cook obviously couldn't. Ok KP let Strauss down badly, but you can 't take him back and then abuse him.
I know you don't like him John, but look what has happened to Tresco and Trott, We arguably almost destroyed Freddie too, he drank every night into oblivion on tour.
Actually I don't mind KP. His attitude at the crease is refreshing. Surprised he is quite so sensitive when he isn't out in the middle.
I don't blame KP for being a ringer - I blame the desperation of selectors who will pick anyone who can make runs if they will change their nationality to one of convenience. It is the antithesis of national sport.
Re: wives and girlfriends - I am not sure why you can't go without seeing one for a few months while you play international sport. If they want to go and watch - fine. But shouldn't be part of the tour.
I don't blame KP for being a ringer - I blame the desperation of selectors who will pick anyone who can make runs if they will change their nationality to one of convenience. It is the antithesis of national sport.
Re: wives and girlfriends - I am not sure why you can't go without seeing one for a few months while you play international sport. If they want to go and watch - fine. But shouldn't be part of the tour.
johnfm said:
Actually I don't mind KP. His attitude at the crease is refreshing. Surprised he is quite so sensitive when he isn't out in the middle.
I don't blame KP for being a ringer - I blame the desperation of selectors who will pick anyone who can make runs if they will change their nationality to one of convenience. It is the antithesis of national sport.
Re: wives and girlfriends - I am not sure why you can't go without seeing one for a few months while you play international sport. If they want to go and watch - fine. But shouldn't be part of the tour.
No doubt you refused to follow your beloved team between 2004 & 2008 when Andrew Symonds (born in Birmingham) played for the colony?I don't blame KP for being a ringer - I blame the desperation of selectors who will pick anyone who can make runs if they will change their nationality to one of convenience. It is the antithesis of national sport.
Re: wives and girlfriends - I am not sure why you can't go without seeing one for a few months while you play international sport. If they want to go and watch - fine. But shouldn't be part of the tour.
I missed your enlightening posts in the PH Ashes thread over the last few years. Good to see you back now though John & at least you're not a fair weather con supporter
zygalski said:
johnfm said:
Actually I don't mind KP. His attitude at the crease is refreshing. Surprised he is quite so sensitive when he isn't out in the middle.
I don't blame KP for being a ringer - I blame the desperation of selectors who will pick anyone who can make runs if they will change their nationality to one of convenience. It is the antithesis of national sport.
Re: wives and girlfriends - I am not sure why you can't go without seeing one for a few months while you play international sport. If they want to go and watch - fine. But shouldn't be part of the tour.
No doubt you refused to follow your beloved team between 2004 & 2008 when Andrew Symonds (born in Birmingham) played for the colony?I don't blame KP for being a ringer - I blame the desperation of selectors who will pick anyone who can make runs if they will change their nationality to one of convenience. It is the antithesis of national sport.
Re: wives and girlfriends - I am not sure why you can't go without seeing one for a few months while you play international sport. If they want to go and watch - fine. But shouldn't be part of the tour.
I missed your enlightening posts in the PH Ashes thread over the last few years. Good to see you back now though John & at least you're not a fair weather con supporter
Quite an interesting piece by Bob Willis. http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/95086...
I think that while a portion of it is true and has some substance I do wonder whether there is a large piece which is him being bitter and trying to get one over the ECB for the way they handled his contract termination??
He has a huge ego and could it be this air of self-importance that he is right and everyone else is wrong?
I think that while a portion of it is true and has some substance I do wonder whether there is a large piece which is him being bitter and trying to get one over the ECB for the way they handled his contract termination??
He has a huge ego and could it be this air of self-importance that he is right and everyone else is wrong?
Challo said:
Quite an interesting piece by Bob Willis. http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/95086...
I think that while a portion of it is true and has some substance I do wonder whether there is a large piece which is him being bitter and trying to get one over the ECB for the way they handled his contract termination??
He has a huge ego and could it be this air of self-importance that he is right and everyone else is wrong?
Can't really blame him for some of the stuff, especially how they made him the scapegoat during the ashes whitewash, despite the fact he was the leading run scorer for EnglandI think that while a portion of it is true and has some substance I do wonder whether there is a large piece which is him being bitter and trying to get one over the ECB for the way they handled his contract termination??
He has a huge ego and could it be this air of self-importance that he is right and everyone else is wrong?
From some of the articles I have read so far, Prior and Swann have come across as right pricks.
Vaughan backs KP when he accuses the England bowlers of being an intimidating clique.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29517817
Probably buy the book now!
Dour' Flower, 'negative' Prior, 'company man' Cook
Kevin Pietersen's autobiography contains colourful accusations and revelations about the England set-up he used to inhabit. Here we collect some of the stand-out lines.
On his sacking by England:
"They needed a scapegoat, preferably someone big, boisterous and annoying. Somebody with a little history. Somebody who left colourful footprints on the pristine white carpets. I didn't always tread wisely. I was often naive and sometimes stupid. I was no villain, though.
"I've read there is a 'dossier', a four-page document that lists my crimes in Australia. Fifty crimes. The problem is, it doesn't actually exist. If a dossier did exist the ECB would have a reason to sack me."
On Andy Flower:
"Contagiously sour. Infectiously dour. He could walk into a room and suck all the joy out of it in five seconds. Just a Mood Hoover. That's how I came to think of him.
On the England team environment:
"A clique choked our team... and Andy Flower let that clique grow like a bad weed.
"The dressing room slowly became the territory of the biggest mouths among the bowlers - and a wicketkeeper. They ran an exclusive club. If you're outside that clique, you were fair game for mocking, ridicule, bullying."
On the Ashes whitewash:
"It's Flower who was the problem. Walking around with that 'somebody stole our legacy' face. The environment was horrendous."
On Matt Prior:
"I'm the one who's always been labelled as the uncontrollable individualist, the ego maniac, the arrogant, flash, materialistic South African. But when I close my eyes in the dressing room I can't help wondering why. Every tour I hear Prior getting louder and louder. Pump up the volume. Pump up the volume."
"The Big Cheese had matured and grown too large for his little box."
On his international career:
"I'm not prepared to accept I will never play for England again ... I believe the governing of English cricket could change; I believe it should change. I am happy for now, but I would be happy to come back. Anything can happen in cricket."
On Alastair Cook:
"I know, though, that while Cooky is a nice man, he is also a company man. A safe pair of hands; he won't rock the boat."
On Stuart Broad:
"I'm not sure if Broad is the sharpest tool in the box."
On Peter Moores:
"Whatever dial is in Peter Moore's head, it can't be turned down to 'chill'. The man can't relax. I could never relax when he was around. He was always around."
"He's a nice guy but like a human triple espresso - so intense."
On leaving South Africa to play for England:
"One big mistake was not respecting South Africa and what it stands for. Not respecting South Africa and what the country gave me in terms of living there for 19 happy years ... I realise too that South Africa was my first home and my real home."
On the IPL:
"When the IPL came into existence, all the ECB could see was the IPL's money and its own jealousy."
On the KP Genius Twitter account:
"I was left feeling isolated and bullied, but nobody seemed too bothered as long as I did my performing-seal routine when I went out to bat."
Defo need to buy the book! The last line in the leaving South Africa is a killer line!
Kevin Pietersen's autobiography contains colourful accusations and revelations about the England set-up he used to inhabit. Here we collect some of the stand-out lines.
On his sacking by England:
"They needed a scapegoat, preferably someone big, boisterous and annoying. Somebody with a little history. Somebody who left colourful footprints on the pristine white carpets. I didn't always tread wisely. I was often naive and sometimes stupid. I was no villain, though.
"I've read there is a 'dossier', a four-page document that lists my crimes in Australia. Fifty crimes. The problem is, it doesn't actually exist. If a dossier did exist the ECB would have a reason to sack me."
On Andy Flower:
"Contagiously sour. Infectiously dour. He could walk into a room and suck all the joy out of it in five seconds. Just a Mood Hoover. That's how I came to think of him.
On the England team environment:
"A clique choked our team... and Andy Flower let that clique grow like a bad weed.
"The dressing room slowly became the territory of the biggest mouths among the bowlers - and a wicketkeeper. They ran an exclusive club. If you're outside that clique, you were fair game for mocking, ridicule, bullying."
On the Ashes whitewash:
"It's Flower who was the problem. Walking around with that 'somebody stole our legacy' face. The environment was horrendous."
On Matt Prior:
"I'm the one who's always been labelled as the uncontrollable individualist, the ego maniac, the arrogant, flash, materialistic South African. But when I close my eyes in the dressing room I can't help wondering why. Every tour I hear Prior getting louder and louder. Pump up the volume. Pump up the volume."
"The Big Cheese had matured and grown too large for his little box."
On his international career:
"I'm not prepared to accept I will never play for England again ... I believe the governing of English cricket could change; I believe it should change. I am happy for now, but I would be happy to come back. Anything can happen in cricket."
On Alastair Cook:
"I know, though, that while Cooky is a nice man, he is also a company man. A safe pair of hands; he won't rock the boat."
On Stuart Broad:
"I'm not sure if Broad is the sharpest tool in the box."
On Peter Moores:
"Whatever dial is in Peter Moore's head, it can't be turned down to 'chill'. The man can't relax. I could never relax when he was around. He was always around."
"He's a nice guy but like a human triple espresso - so intense."
On leaving South Africa to play for England:
"One big mistake was not respecting South Africa and what it stands for. Not respecting South Africa and what the country gave me in terms of living there for 19 happy years ... I realise too that South Africa was my first home and my real home."
On the IPL:
"When the IPL came into existence, all the ECB could see was the IPL's money and its own jealousy."
On the KP Genius Twitter account:
"I was left feeling isolated and bullied, but nobody seemed too bothered as long as I did my performing-seal routine when I went out to bat."
Defo need to buy the book! The last line in the leaving South Africa is a killer line!
Ajmal Shahzad himself has said players were forced to apologise in front of everyone for fielding mistakes. WTF?!
Former England fast bowler Ajmal Shahzad has admitted he was surprised when England team-mate Jonathan Trott made an apparently forced apology for a fielding mistake.
Shahzad on Tuesday corroborated Kevin Pietersen's claims that young England players were singled out if they misfielded off senior team-mates.
Pietersen has written in his autobiography of a "bullying" culture in which younger players in particular were taken to task and forced to apologise to bowlers for any slip-ups.
Shahzad, who has not added to his 15 international caps across all formats for more than three years, recalls being made to feel as if it was a "bit of a disgrace" if he made a mistake.
It did not take the bowling all-rounder long to find out about the "tough environment" either - because on his debut, in a Twenty20 against Pakistan in Dubai, Trott said sorry to the entire team for a costly overthrow.
"I remember the next day we had a meeting in the hotel room, (and) Trotty came to the front and apologised for what he'd done," Shahzad told BBC Radio 5 Live.
"Again, the feeling was he was made to - he felt as if he was asked to do so.
"He stepped up and made an apology, and it was something I had never seen before.
"I felt, this being my first game, it was the way it was done; if you make a mistake you apologise for the mistake you've made.
"It was a little bit different."
Shahzad told BBC Radio 5 Live: "There were times when I misfielded balls, (one) in the World Cup I dived over a ball, (and) there were some senior players you just didn't want to look at.
"You knew they were disappointed and (thought it was) a bit of a disgrace ... what you'd done was really bad.
"If you did something wrong it wasn't looked kindly upon. It did feel quite bad.
"I remember misfielding (in Bangladesh) and didn't want to look up because you knew you were going to get these hard looks, stern looks - and it did feel a little uncomfortable."
The 29-year-old Nottinghamshire paceman recalls the recriminations, but not so much the encouragement when things did not go his way.
He added: "There weren't many times when someone would come up to you and say 'don't worry about it - that's sport, you have ups and downs'.
"It was a tough environment."
Former England fast bowler Ajmal Shahzad has admitted he was surprised when England team-mate Jonathan Trott made an apparently forced apology for a fielding mistake.
Shahzad on Tuesday corroborated Kevin Pietersen's claims that young England players were singled out if they misfielded off senior team-mates.
Pietersen has written in his autobiography of a "bullying" culture in which younger players in particular were taken to task and forced to apologise to bowlers for any slip-ups.
Shahzad, who has not added to his 15 international caps across all formats for more than three years, recalls being made to feel as if it was a "bit of a disgrace" if he made a mistake.
It did not take the bowling all-rounder long to find out about the "tough environment" either - because on his debut, in a Twenty20 against Pakistan in Dubai, Trott said sorry to the entire team for a costly overthrow.
"I remember the next day we had a meeting in the hotel room, (and) Trotty came to the front and apologised for what he'd done," Shahzad told BBC Radio 5 Live.
"Again, the feeling was he was made to - he felt as if he was asked to do so.
"He stepped up and made an apology, and it was something I had never seen before.
"I felt, this being my first game, it was the way it was done; if you make a mistake you apologise for the mistake you've made.
"It was a little bit different."
Shahzad told BBC Radio 5 Live: "There were times when I misfielded balls, (one) in the World Cup I dived over a ball, (and) there were some senior players you just didn't want to look at.
"You knew they were disappointed and (thought it was) a bit of a disgrace ... what you'd done was really bad.
"If you did something wrong it wasn't looked kindly upon. It did feel quite bad.
"I remember misfielding (in Bangladesh) and didn't want to look up because you knew you were going to get these hard looks, stern looks - and it did feel a little uncomfortable."
The 29-year-old Nottinghamshire paceman recalls the recriminations, but not so much the encouragement when things did not go his way.
He added: "There weren't many times when someone would come up to you and say 'don't worry about it - that's sport, you have ups and downs'.
"It was a tough environment."
Amirhussain said:
Dour' Flower, 'negative' Prior, 'company man' Cook
Kevin Pietersen's autobiography contains colourful accusations and revelations about the England set-up he used to inhabit. Here we collect some of the stand-out lines.
On his sacking by England:
"They needed a scapegoat, preferably someone big, boisterous and annoying. Somebody with a little history. Somebody who left colourful footprints on the pristine white carpets. I didn't always tread wisely. I was often naive and sometimes stupid. I was no villain, though.
"I've read there is a 'dossier', a four-page document that lists my crimes in Australia. Fifty crimes. The problem is, it doesn't actually exist. If a dossier did exist the ECB would have a reason to sack me."
On Andy Flower:
"Contagiously sour. Infectiously dour. He could walk into a room and suck all the joy out of it in five seconds. Just a Mood Hoover. That's how I came to think of him.
On the England team environment:
"A clique choked our team... and Andy Flower let that clique grow like a bad weed.
"The dressing room slowly became the territory of the biggest mouths among the bowlers - and a wicketkeeper. They ran an exclusive club. If you're outside that clique, you were fair game for mocking, ridicule, bullying."
On the Ashes whitewash:
"It's Flower who was the problem. Walking around with that 'somebody stole our legacy' face. The environment was horrendous."
On Matt Prior:
"I'm the one who's always been labelled as the uncontrollable individualist, the ego maniac, the arrogant, flash, materialistic South African. But when I close my eyes in the dressing room I can't help wondering why. Every tour I hear Prior getting louder and louder. Pump up the volume. Pump up the volume."
"The Big Cheese had matured and grown too large for his little box."
On his international career:
"I'm not prepared to accept I will never play for England again ... I believe the governing of English cricket could change; I believe it should change. I am happy for now, but I would be happy to come back. Anything can happen in cricket."
On Alastair Cook:
"I know, though, that while Cooky is a nice man, he is also a company man. A safe pair of hands; he won't rock the boat."
On Stuart Broad:
"I'm not sure if Broad is the sharpest tool in the box."
On Peter Moores:
"Whatever dial is in Peter Moore's head, it can't be turned down to 'chill'. The man can't relax. I could never relax when he was around. He was always around."
"He's a nice guy but like a human triple espresso - so intense."
On leaving South Africa to play for England:
"One big mistake was not respecting South Africa and what it stands for. Not respecting South Africa and what the country gave me in terms of living there for 19 happy years ... I realise too that South Africa was my first home and my real home."
On the IPL:
"When the IPL came into existence, all the ECB could see was the IPL's money and its own jealousy."
On the KP Genius Twitter account:
"I was left feeling isolated and bullied, but nobody seemed too bothered as long as I did my performing-seal routine when I went out to bat."
Defo need to buy the book! The last line in the leaving South Africa is a killer line!
I wonder if there is any acceptance from him for being part of any of the above?? Kevin Pietersen's autobiography contains colourful accusations and revelations about the England set-up he used to inhabit. Here we collect some of the stand-out lines.
On his sacking by England:
"They needed a scapegoat, preferably someone big, boisterous and annoying. Somebody with a little history. Somebody who left colourful footprints on the pristine white carpets. I didn't always tread wisely. I was often naive and sometimes stupid. I was no villain, though.
"I've read there is a 'dossier', a four-page document that lists my crimes in Australia. Fifty crimes. The problem is, it doesn't actually exist. If a dossier did exist the ECB would have a reason to sack me."
On Andy Flower:
"Contagiously sour. Infectiously dour. He could walk into a room and suck all the joy out of it in five seconds. Just a Mood Hoover. That's how I came to think of him.
On the England team environment:
"A clique choked our team... and Andy Flower let that clique grow like a bad weed.
"The dressing room slowly became the territory of the biggest mouths among the bowlers - and a wicketkeeper. They ran an exclusive club. If you're outside that clique, you were fair game for mocking, ridicule, bullying."
On the Ashes whitewash:
"It's Flower who was the problem. Walking around with that 'somebody stole our legacy' face. The environment was horrendous."
On Matt Prior:
"I'm the one who's always been labelled as the uncontrollable individualist, the ego maniac, the arrogant, flash, materialistic South African. But when I close my eyes in the dressing room I can't help wondering why. Every tour I hear Prior getting louder and louder. Pump up the volume. Pump up the volume."
"The Big Cheese had matured and grown too large for his little box."
On his international career:
"I'm not prepared to accept I will never play for England again ... I believe the governing of English cricket could change; I believe it should change. I am happy for now, but I would be happy to come back. Anything can happen in cricket."
On Alastair Cook:
"I know, though, that while Cooky is a nice man, he is also a company man. A safe pair of hands; he won't rock the boat."
On Stuart Broad:
"I'm not sure if Broad is the sharpest tool in the box."
On Peter Moores:
"Whatever dial is in Peter Moore's head, it can't be turned down to 'chill'. The man can't relax. I could never relax when he was around. He was always around."
"He's a nice guy but like a human triple espresso - so intense."
On leaving South Africa to play for England:
"One big mistake was not respecting South Africa and what it stands for. Not respecting South Africa and what the country gave me in terms of living there for 19 happy years ... I realise too that South Africa was my first home and my real home."
On the IPL:
"When the IPL came into existence, all the ECB could see was the IPL's money and its own jealousy."
On the KP Genius Twitter account:
"I was left feeling isolated and bullied, but nobody seemed too bothered as long as I did my performing-seal routine when I went out to bat."
Defo need to buy the book! The last line in the leaving South Africa is a killer line!
I think this is a good article
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/internati...
Atherton also wrote something that was supposed to be good yesterday but it's behind the Times paywall.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/internati...
Atherton also wrote something that was supposed to be good yesterday but it's behind the Times paywall.
London424 said:
I think this is a good article
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/internati...
Atherton also wrote something that was supposed to be good yesterday but it's behind the Times paywall.
One would expect Boycott to be an apologist for KP. He of course also undermined his colleagues and was despised within the dressing room. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/internati...
Atherton also wrote something that was supposed to be good yesterday but it's behind the Times paywall.
This;
Boycott said:
Yes Kevin was awkward, difficult, different and at times his own worst enemy. But his record and his performances do not deserve a character assassination
For Kevin read Geoffrey. His view is (obviously) if you make runs everyone should overlook the fact that you're an obnoxious asshole.Better still read Don Mosey's book about Boycott. I'll listen to Boycs on battin' but not on character issues, captaincy or playing for the team.
unrepentant said:
London424 said:
I think this is a good article
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/internati...
Atherton also wrote something that was supposed to be good yesterday but it's behind the Times paywall.
One would expect Boycott to be an apologist for KP. He of course also undermined his colleagues and was despised within the dressing room. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/internati...
Atherton also wrote something that was supposed to be good yesterday but it's behind the Times paywall.
This;
Boycott said:
Yes Kevin was awkward, difficult, different and at times his own worst enemy. But his record and his performances do not deserve a character assassination
For Kevin read Geoffrey. His view is (obviously) if you make runs everyone should overlook the fact that you're an obnoxious asshole.Better still read Don Mosey's book about Boycott. I'll listen to Boycs on battin' but not on character issues, captaincy or playing for the team.
What's the point in having management if they can't handle some high maintenance players? That's their job...to get the best out of everyone.
How crap would the sport have been without some of these players...no Boycott, no Botham, no Warne, no Pieterson etc
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