Golf Thread 2014 - All Things Golf!
Discussion
DuncanM said:
rat840771 said:
I didn't need a change if I'm honest, but what the hell...you only live once and I'm going for single figures next spring (only . 6 to go)
I had a Ping g25 I just couldn't get on with a G10 4 wood I love and old taylormade rescues. But just could pass up on the complete deal.
They are a the best brand to me, with great choice of shafts and the surefit technology is great as I can alter all the lofts on my clubs.
Hope you enjoy them! I had a Ping g25 I just couldn't get on with a G10 4 wood I love and old taylormade rescues. But just could pass up on the complete deal.
They are a the best brand to me, with great choice of shafts and the surefit technology is great as I can alter all the lofts on my clubs.
Loved the clubs, 1st time out with them and shot a gross 77 (best I've ever shot is a (75). So money well spent, especially as my old Ping sold for £100!
Betterball net 62 (10 under) in our local union match on Sunday. We were the last team in, beating 3 teams on 63.
The winnings have nicely paid for a Vokey SM5.
Apart from the obvious gloating, the point of this message is that I had a putting lesson 1 week ago, the last 3 rounds I've had have been my best putting rounds of the year.
The winnings have nicely paid for a Vokey SM5.
Apart from the obvious gloating, the point of this message is that I had a putting lesson 1 week ago, the last 3 rounds I've had have been my best putting rounds of the year.
Rosscow said:
Played yesterday, skipped the par 5 17th and finished the 18th in the dark!
28 points from 17 holes but with 5 blobs.
I seem to be going back to being either good (5 birdie putts, only 1 converted) or bad. Not much in the middle!!
That 'really good or really bad' thing isn't helped by playing Stableford. It promotes a cavalier attitude to shot selection knowing the worst that can happen is a blob.28 points from 17 holes but with 5 blobs.
I seem to be going back to being either good (5 birdie putts, only 1 converted) or bad. Not much in the middle!!
Strokeplay will help your consistency because when you HAVE to put EVERY ball in the cup, you become a bit more protective of it.
SpeckledJim said:
That 'really good or really bad' thing isn't helped by playing Stableford. It promotes a cavalier attitude to shot selection knowing the worst that can happen is a blob.
Strokeplay will help your consistency because when you HAVE to put EVERY ball in the cup, you become a bit more protective of it.
Yep, I completely agree. Although the 5 blobs were finished off (e.g. 6 for nowt instead of a point).Strokeplay will help your consistency because when you HAVE to put EVERY ball in the cup, you become a bit more protective of it.
Rosscow said:
SpeckledJim said:
That 'really good or really bad' thing isn't helped by playing Stableford. It promotes a cavalier attitude to shot selection knowing the worst that can happen is a blob.
Strokeplay will help your consistency because when you HAVE to put EVERY ball in the cup, you become a bit more protective of it.
Yep, I completely agree. Although the 5 blobs were finished off (e.g. 6 for nowt instead of a point).Strokeplay will help your consistency because when you HAVE to put EVERY ball in the cup, you become a bit more protective of it.
Stableford has folk take driver on every tee, going straight at every pin and taking on every lake, bunker and ditch. A lot of the texture of the game (patience, risk-reward, head vs ego) is lost.
SpeckledJim said:
Stableford has folk take driver on every tee, going straight at every pin and taking on every lake, bunker and ditch. A lot of the texture of the game (patience, risk-reward, head vs ego) is lost.
I struggle with this a little. We play Stableford in our group every weekend. My strategy is to get the lowest score I can. Unless we have presure from behind we usually finish the ball off into the cup and record the number of strokes. It is always a question of fighting the demons who play with your head regarding risk/reward especially when you have a good start to the round and your confidence starts to over ride your safety common sense. It does not change my view when I play stroke play, I do not even adjust my thinking based on if I get a stroke on a hole. The only time I really change my playing strategy is when playing in a team where your partner plays a good safe shot so you can turn up the screws to see if you can get a bit more with no risk.Stupid question but what am I missing?
Abbott said:
SpeckledJim said:
Stableford has folk take driver on every tee, going straight at every pin and taking on every lake, bunker and ditch. A lot of the texture of the game (patience, risk-reward, head vs ego) is lost.
I struggle with this a little. We play Stableford in our group every weekend. My strategy is to get the lowest score I can. Unless we have presure from behind we usually finish the ball off into the cup and record the number of strokes. It is always a question of fighting the demons who play with your head regarding risk/reward especially when you have a good start to the round and your confidence starts to over ride your safety common sense. It does not change my view when I play stroke play, I do not even adjust my thinking based on if I get a stroke on a hole. The only time I really change my playing strategy is when playing in a team where your partner plays a good safe shot so you can turn up the screws to see if you can get a bit more with no risk.Stupid question but what am I missing?
cheddar said:
Abbott said:
SpeckledJim said:
Stableford has folk take driver on every tee, going straight at every pin and taking on every lake, bunker and ditch. A lot of the texture of the game (patience, risk-reward, head vs ego) is lost.
I struggle with this a little. We play Stableford in our group every weekend. My strategy is to get the lowest score I can. Unless we have presure from behind we usually finish the ball off into the cup and record the number of strokes. It is always a question of fighting the demons who play with your head regarding risk/reward especially when you have a good start to the round and your confidence starts to over ride your safety common sense. It does not change my view when I play stroke play, I do not even adjust my thinking based on if I get a stroke on a hole. The only time I really change my playing strategy is when playing in a team where your partner plays a good safe shot so you can turn up the screws to see if you can get a bit more with no risk.Stupid question but what am I missing?
Stableford simplifies the game by basically completely removing the sting of a terrible hole.
Terrible holes are part and parcel of the game, and playing in a manner that considers and attempts to avoid them is an important part of getting round, IMO.
I don't think in a non-matchplay situation that I should be able to beat you in spite of hitting the ball more times than you did.
Taking a 10 on the 2nd is reckless and should inflict real damage to your card, not a glancing flesh-wound.
Sorry, still dont get it. Last weekend i took only 18 points and my whole round was an unmitigated disaster. At no point did my strategy change due to knowing I could pick up some points. I was simply not able to deliver any sort of decent shott with irons or putter. In fact the club that did deliver was driver off the tee.
SpeckledJim said:
cheddar said:
Abbott said:
SpeckledJim said:
Stableford has folk take driver on every tee, going straight at every pin and taking on every lake, bunker and ditch. A lot of the texture of the game (patience, risk-reward, head vs ego) is lost.
I struggle with this a little. We play Stableford in our group every weekend. My strategy is to get the lowest score I can. Unless we have presure from behind we usually finish the ball off into the cup and record the number of strokes. It is always a question of fighting the demons who play with your head regarding risk/reward especially when you have a good start to the round and your confidence starts to over ride your safety common sense. It does not change my view when I play stroke play, I do not even adjust my thinking based on if I get a stroke on a hole. The only time I really change my playing strategy is when playing in a team where your partner plays a good safe shot so you can turn up the screws to see if you can get a bit more with no risk.Stupid question but what am I missing?
Stableford simplifies the game by basically completely removing the sting of a terrible hole.
Terrible holes are part and parcel of the game, and playing in a manner that considers and attempts to avoid them is an important part of getting round, IMO.
I don't think in a non-matchplay situation that I should be able to beat you in spite of hitting the ball more times than you did.
Taking a 10 on the 2nd is reckless and should inflict real damage to your card, not a glancing flesh-wound.
Rosscow said:
SpeckledJim said:
cheddar said:
Abbott said:
SpeckledJim said:
Stableford has folk take driver on every tee, going straight at every pin and taking on every lake, bunker and ditch. A lot of the texture of the game (patience, risk-reward, head vs ego) is lost.
I struggle with this a little. We play Stableford in our group every weekend. My strategy is to get the lowest score I can. Unless we have presure from behind we usually finish the ball off into the cup and record the number of strokes. It is always a question of fighting the demons who play with your head regarding risk/reward especially when you have a good start to the round and your confidence starts to over ride your safety common sense. It does not change my view when I play stroke play, I do not even adjust my thinking based on if I get a stroke on a hole. The only time I really change my playing strategy is when playing in a team where your partner plays a good safe shot so you can turn up the screws to see if you can get a bit more with no risk.Stupid question but what am I missing?
Stableford simplifies the game by basically completely removing the sting of a terrible hole.
Terrible holes are part and parcel of the game, and playing in a manner that considers and attempts to avoid them is an important part of getting round, IMO.
I don't think in a non-matchplay situation that I should be able to beat you in spite of hitting the ball more times than you did.
Taking a 10 on the 2nd is reckless and should inflict real damage to your card, not a glancing flesh-wound.
Golf (for me at least - I'm not getting personal, it's only golf
) is about putting the ball in the hole 18 times. Not picking it up when you've mucked things up and getting away (basically) scot-free.In your example, the guy who plays a good round except for a quadruple would draw with a guy who had the same round except for a triple. In my opinion, he should lose because he hit the ball more times.
I like other versions of the game besides the 'real' golf of strokeplay and matchplay - Texas scramble, Skins, etc. I just don't like Stableford because it removes the craft of building a card - knowing all the way round that 2 rash minutes can throw it all away. Having beaten that possibility is essential to the satisfaction of a good card well built. It doesn't happen often, which makes it all the sweeter.
The sickening kick in the guts of a 10 on the 18th after an otherwise tidy round is part of the beauty of the game. Especially when it happen to somebody else!
There's a reason there are no serious Stableford tournaments - because golf rewards good play and punishes bad play. Stableford doesn't really punish bad play, and doesn't distinguish between bad and bloody awful - it only rewards the good. Get yourself in the mire - don't worry, just pick it up and move on.
If stableford was proper golf, then Jean van de Velde would have won The Open after bottling it on the last. That's not right, surely!
It is an interesting debate this.
Fact is, without Stableford, golf would barely survive.
Stableford is what makes golf an enjoyable game for the many players who may never break 90, let alone 80/70?
Stableford speeds up rounds of golf when played correctly, in comparison to strokeplay.
The fact of the matter is that better players (like you Jim) don't like stableford because you are good enough to enjoy medal/ strokeplay golf.
Golf is a game to be enjoyed by lots of different standards, and stableford has made that possible.
All imo of course
Fact is, without Stableford, golf would barely survive.
Stableford is what makes golf an enjoyable game for the many players who may never break 90, let alone 80/70?
Stableford speeds up rounds of golf when played correctly, in comparison to strokeplay.
The fact of the matter is that better players (like you Jim) don't like stableford because you are good enough to enjoy medal/ strokeplay golf.
Golf is a game to be enjoyed by lots of different standards, and stableford has made that possible.
All imo of course
DuncanM said:
Stableford speeds up rounds of golf when played correctly, in comparison to strokeplay.
Golf is a game to be enjoyed by lots of different standards, and stableford has made that possible.
Those two points are unarguable, and I agree whole-heartedly. If Stableford affords one the most fun, then that's the best version of golf. This is supposed to be fun above all.Golf is a game to be enjoyed by lots of different standards, and stableford has made that possible.
I would encourage keen Stableforders to examine their contention that it doesn't affect their strategy though:
Put yourself halfway down a long par 4. Due to a little disaster on the tee that we are trying to forget you have only two shots remaining to you in order to score a point on this hole.
I'd suggest that your stableford strategy A is now ENORMOUSLY different to your strokeplay strategy A. They are now completely different situations.
What you need to do for Stableford (say a three wood off the deck and hope desperately for a blinder to give you a chance at one putt) and what you should do for strokeplay (take a breath, consolidate, make sure of a steady stroke to give you a chance at an up-and-down but DEFINITELY keep things in play) are basically opposites.
Adopting the stableford strategy at this point (essentially hoping to be momentarily possessed by the spirit of Harry Vardon) in the strokeplay situation (where you really need to pipe-down and take your medicine) is the sort of decision that escalates a hiccup into the kind of disaster that revisits you at your desk for the rest of the week!
All good fun.
SpeckledJim said:
Those two points are unarguable, and I agree whole-heartedly. If Stableford affords one the most fun, then that's the best version of golf. This is supposed to be fun above all.
I would encourage keen Stableforders to examine their contention that it doesn't affect their strategy though:
Put yourself halfway down a long par 4. Due to a little disaster on the tee that we are trying to forget you have only two shots remaining to you in order to score a point on this hole.
I'd suggest that your stableford strategy A is now ENORMOUSLY different to your strokeplay strategy A. They are now completely different situations.
What you need to do for Stableford (say a three wood off the deck and hope desperately for a blinder to give you a chance at one putt) and what you should do for strokeplay (take a breath, consolidate, make sure of a steady stroke to give you a chance at an up-and-down but DEFINITELY keep things in play) are basically opposites.
Adopting the stableford strategy at this point (essentially hoping to be momentarily possessed by the spirit of Harry Vardon) in the strokeplay situation (where you really need to pipe-down and take your medicine) is the sort of decision that escalates a hiccup into the kind of disaster that revisits you at your desk for the rest of the week!
All good fun.
This is all true but when viewed as a fairly average hacker, it is those "spirit of Harry Vardon" shots that, when one eventually comes off, keep you coming back for more and reminiscing for years. There is a time and a place for percentage golf but it hardly the most 'fun' way for an average golfer out for his monthly smash.I would encourage keen Stableforders to examine their contention that it doesn't affect their strategy though:
Put yourself halfway down a long par 4. Due to a little disaster on the tee that we are trying to forget you have only two shots remaining to you in order to score a point on this hole.
I'd suggest that your stableford strategy A is now ENORMOUSLY different to your strokeplay strategy A. They are now completely different situations.
What you need to do for Stableford (say a three wood off the deck and hope desperately for a blinder to give you a chance at one putt) and what you should do for strokeplay (take a breath, consolidate, make sure of a steady stroke to give you a chance at an up-and-down but DEFINITELY keep things in play) are basically opposites.
Adopting the stableford strategy at this point (essentially hoping to be momentarily possessed by the spirit of Harry Vardon) in the strokeplay situation (where you really need to pipe-down and take your medicine) is the sort of decision that escalates a hiccup into the kind of disaster that revisits you at your desk for the rest of the week!
All good fun.
ManFromDelmonte said:
This is all true but when viewed as a fairly average hacker, it is those "spirit of Harry Vardon" shots that, when one eventually comes off, keep you coming back for more and reminiscing for years. There is a time and a place for percentage golf but it hardly the most 'fun' way for an average golfer out for his monthly smash.
My favourite part of golf is the handful of seconds in every round spent watching a ball in the air that you know is going to be close.But I get more satisfaction from a par that went exactly as planned on the tee, than I do from a birdie that felt 'lucky'.
'Grip it and rip it' is undeniably fun. Wandering around in the cabbage looking for it isn't fun. It's a balance.
If a simple monthly smash-about is the goal, then that's perfectly justifiable. If every time you play you want to score lower than you did last time, then that's also a justifiable goal. But the two are not compatible.
SpeckledJim said:
Put yourself halfway down a long par 4. Due to a little disaster on the tee that we are trying to forget you have only two shots remaining to you in order to score a point on this hole.
I am really enjoying this discussion as clearly I have a lot to learn. I have read Bob Rotella books and have to say the were responsible for dropping me from 24 to a consistent 18. The theme comes back again again to mental management, ie try to ignore the bad shots, concentrate on your target and do not "think about your swing". On top of this there is the choice of shot, you are in the woods, do you play a clever shot or punt it out sideways back to the middle of the fairway. In the scenario you describe, my mind set would be simple, how far is it, what is the lie like, are there any other risk factors - then choose the appropriate club and hit the ball as sweet as possible. I know that everytime I tweek up the grunt factor it goes wrong so there is no point in busting a gut to get on the green. A better shot is to play within my limit and try to leave a simple punt, run and drop in with the trusty 7 iron. The other thing I try to keep out of my head is how well a around is going. I find this works equally for good and bad days. Play each shot in its own context without the pressure of If I get this it will be my best card etc etc
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