Discussion
bladerrw said:
You can't do well in international rugby without a decent back row and any side that has to play Robshaw at 7 and brings on a pensioner like Easter is bereft of talent.
Boy do we need a flying 7 and a dynamic ball-playing 8. I bet the fifth choice Kiwi open side would walk into our team.
Morgan is good when match fit. Not convinced he is/was.Boy do we need a flying 7 and a dynamic ball-playing 8. I bet the fifth choice Kiwi open side would walk into our team.
towser said:
Clive Woodward. Class act - must be so disappointed but telling it straight and giving credit where credit is due.
Sadly I think it'll be a Southern Hemisphere team winning the WC this time around. I think it's a toss up between Aussies and the Boks.
Tournament will be much the poorer for England not being there. Ultimately just not good enough, as Woodward said, the last 20 minutes of the games against Wales and Australia they were just not good enough. Too many substitutions? Not fit enough? Couldn't handle the pressure? Who knows?
As for the other northern hemisphere hopefuls.
Wales - if at full strength would have had a fighting chance of at least making the semis. As it stands I think the injury list will take its toll in the quarters.
Ireland - probably in with the best shout based on what I've seen. Probable semi finalists and from there it's anyone's guess.
Scotland - Will make the quarter finals, which is probably as well as could be expected post the 6Nations.
FranceSadly I think it'll be a Southern Hemisphere team winning the WC this time around. I think it's a toss up between Aussies and the Boks.
Tournament will be much the poorer for England not being there. Ultimately just not good enough, as Woodward said, the last 20 minutes of the games against Wales and Australia they were just not good enough. Too many substitutions? Not fit enough? Couldn't handle the pressure? Who knows?
As for the other northern hemisphere hopefuls.
Wales - if at full strength would have had a fighting chance of at least making the semis. As it stands I think the injury list will take its toll in the quarters.
Ireland - probably in with the best shout based on what I've seen. Probable semi finalists and from there it's anyone's guess.
Scotland - Will make the quarter finals, which is probably as well as could be expected post the 6Nations.
irocfan said:
here's a question for you all then...
If not Robshaw as captain, who? I'm honestly struggling to pick someone out. IMO the only certainties are (currently) Brown, Watson, Launchbury, Lawes, Hartley the only choice there seems to be the walking penalty machine - plus is it really a good idea to have you captain go off @ 55/60 minutes every game?
This is a pertinent question. We simply don't have a Martin Johnson out there in the domestic set up at the moment. So do you roll the dice and take a punt on a young guy who will potentially grow into a captain? A lot of folks are suggesting that Itoje will be a leader in the future but he's only 20. Tom Wood might have been captain for Lancaster if he didn't get injured early in Lancaster tenure.If not Robshaw as captain, who? I'm honestly struggling to pick someone out. IMO the only certainties are (currently) Brown, Watson, Launchbury, Lawes, Hartley the only choice there seems to be the walking penalty machine - plus is it really a good idea to have you captain go off @ 55/60 minutes every game?
I'm more concerned who will come in a manager, I think it's the level above that needs the real shake up. The RFU seem to want a puppet, why else would so many high caliber candidates last time around show no interest? Like everyone else I'd probably like to see what Eddie Jones could do, but he's off to Cape Town and seems like the kind of bloke that wants nothing less than total control.
Domestic candidates? Mike Ford like the brand of rugby that he's brought to Bath but hasn't done much (yet) despite the resources at his disposal.
Rob Baxter, done well with limited resources at Exeter maybe lacks the credentials but WTF was Lancaster?
Malinder and O'Shea the latter is embedded in the RFU already.
International coaches, Deans, Jake White? Jake White wouldn't bring the kind of rugby most people want to see.
It's not just the head coach but the entire coaching team that needs to be right.
Derek Chevalier said:
towser said:
Clive Woodward. Class act - must be so disappointed but telling it straight and giving credit where credit is due.
Sadly I think it'll be a Southern Hemisphere team winning the WC this time around. I think it's a toss up between Aussies and the Boks.
Tournament will be much the poorer for England not being there. Ultimately just not good enough, as Woodward said, the last 20 minutes of the games against Wales and Australia they were just not good enough. Too many substitutions? Not fit enough? Couldn't handle the pressure? Who knows?
As for the other northern hemisphere hopefuls.
Wales - if at full strength would have had a fighting chance of at least making the semis. As it stands I think the injury list will take its toll in the quarters.
Ireland - probably in with the best shout based on what I've seen. Probable semi finalists and from there it's anyone's guess.
Scotland - Will make the quarter finals, which is probably as well as could be expected post the 6Nations.
FranceSadly I think it'll be a Southern Hemisphere team winning the WC this time around. I think it's a toss up between Aussies and the Boks.
Tournament will be much the poorer for England not being there. Ultimately just not good enough, as Woodward said, the last 20 minutes of the games against Wales and Australia they were just not good enough. Too many substitutions? Not fit enough? Couldn't handle the pressure? Who knows?
As for the other northern hemisphere hopefuls.
Wales - if at full strength would have had a fighting chance of at least making the semis. As it stands I think the injury list will take its toll in the quarters.
Ireland - probably in with the best shout based on what I've seen. Probable semi finalists and from there it's anyone's guess.
Scotland - Will make the quarter finals, which is probably as well as could be expected post the 6Nations.
towser said:
Not watched any of the French games so I can't really make any sort of call on them. Just feel, from what I've seen so far the standout teams have been Aus and post Japan Boks. ABs have seemed a little jaded to me.
Now that all the lower tier teams are getting knocked out, 
I don't think any of the remaining top sides have looked that dominant so far. Might be a few surprises yet. towser said:
Not watched any of the French games so I can't really make any sort of call on them. Just feel, from what I've seen so far the standout teams have been Aus and post Japan Boks. ABs have seemed a little jaded to me.
We'll know a lot more about France (and Ireland) after that groups decider. France also look good to me and have yet to really put their strongest XV out, their physicality will be difficult for anyone to deal with, I do think they could still beat NZ one week and get beat by anyone the next.The Boks were impressive, you know what's coming but if they execute their game plan effectively they're neigh on impossible to stop.
Australia do look the real deal, and I wouldn't write of the All Blacks just yet but they do seem to be at danger of being under cooked by time the quarters come.
irocfan said:
here's a question for you all then...
If not Robshaw as captain, who? I'm honestly struggling to pick someone out. IMO the only certainties are (currently) Brown, Watson, Launchbury, Lawes, Hartley the only choice there seems to be the walking penalty machine - plus is it really a good idea to have you captain go off @ 55/60 minutes every game?
Brown is too angry, Watson too much of a winger, lawes needs maturing a bit further, hartley too uncontrolled. If not Robshaw as captain, who? I'm honestly struggling to pick someone out. IMO the only certainties are (currently) Brown, Watson, Launchbury, Lawes, Hartley the only choice there seems to be the walking penalty machine - plus is it really a good idea to have you captain go off @ 55/60 minutes every game?
Launchbury i like an awful lot from his playing style, but i have no idea what he's like personally
you need a rod of iron to be england captain
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Brown is too angry, Watson too much of a winger, lawes needs maturing a bit further, hartley too uncontrolled.
Launchbury i like an awful lot from his playing style, but i have no idea what he's like personally
you need a rod of iron to be england captain
Ideally I reckon a captain should be in the forwards, not against the backs but shouldn't be any further out than the centres.Launchbury i like an awful lot from his playing style, but i have no idea what he's like personally
you need a rod of iron to be england captain
Mike Brown will be 34 come the next world cup I'd suggest he won't be England's starting FB by that point certainty a player that should be kept around in the interim.
Joey Ramone said:
Welshbeef said:
Who will win 6N 2016?
England could be utterly wiped out - Wales will be back to full strength and now don't look like they can lose to England
.
Go and win a world cup, THEN come back and gob off.England could be utterly wiped out - Wales will be back to full strength and now don't look like they can lose to England
. However I think the future is pretty bright for English rugby, and I'm pretty optimistic if we get a decent coaching staff we'll be OK-even as early as the next 6N.
By time we loose some oldies and some dross and get settled a centre and half back partnership we'll have a young team primed to get experience with the 40 odd? caps available before the next RWC and hopefully pick up a couple of 6N titles along the way.
a311 said:
However I think the future is pretty bright for English rugby, and I'm pretty optimistic if we get a decent coaching staff we'll be OK-even as early as the next 6N.
.
This is the crucial point. But the noises being made by Beaumont and Ritchie signal that they believe nothing is wrong, and that nothing needs changing..
Different planet, obviously.
But they do have a problem. Who the hell would you replace Lancaster with, and who the hell would you make captain? His unwillingness to blood other players in senior leadership roles means we're absolutely f
ked for alternative leaders on the pitch. Everyone's either too inexperienced, too ill-disciplined, too thick, or not assured of their place in the team.desolate said:
phil_cardiff said:
Whilst I naturally found tonight hilarious I must cheer up my silly English chums.
There's actually some hope for you in the future. Here's why:
1. Hartley and Tuilagi offer you loads and are definitely available for you.
2. The Armitage brothers (especially Steff) would improve you greatly but you need to somehow change the contract the RFU have with the clubs
3. A decent coach will improve you massively. One who doesn't play a loose game against the best 7 and one of the best 7s in world rugby.
4. A decent assistant coach will allow you to drop Farrell.
5. Slade is class and will improve you.
Cheers up stout saxon yeomen, all is not lost.
Armitage is 30 so no point going there now.There's actually some hope for you in the future. Here's why:
1. Hartley and Tuilagi offer you loads and are definitely available for you.
2. The Armitage brothers (especially Steff) would improve you greatly but you need to somehow change the contract the RFU have with the clubs
3. A decent coach will improve you massively. One who doesn't play a loose game against the best 7 and one of the best 7s in world rugby.
4. A decent assistant coach will allow you to drop Farrell.
5. Slade is class and will improve you.
Cheers up stout saxon yeomen, all is not lost.
Looks like Tuilagi off to France as well.
The core of them team needs to remain but I think Lancaster has to fall on his sword, as does Robshaw.
And Parling shouldn't be at an international match unless he buys his own ticket to the stands. Hartley probably too old for the next world cup as well.
Hartley is a toss pot but he's excellent at the line out so that will allow you to pick Lawes and Launchbury. I don't know what's happened to your scrum though.
If I were English I'd be really interested to see what Tuilagi and Joseph could do as a partnership outside Ford.
And Delon Armitage would get in your side on the wing ahead of May who is poor.
Joey Ramone said:
This is the crucial point. But the noises being made by Beaumont and Ritchie signal that they believe nothing is wrong, and that nothing needs changing.
Different planet, obviously.
But they do have a problem. Who the hell would you replace Lancaster with, and who the hell would you make captain? His unwillingness to blood other players in senior leadership roles means we're absolutely fked for alternative leaders on the pitch. Everyone's either too inexperienced, too ill-disciplined, too thick, or not assured of their place in the team.
There'll no doubt be some arse covering in the ranks but the problem is certainly the level above Lancaster too.Different planet, obviously.
But they do have a problem. Who the hell would you replace Lancaster with, and who the hell would you make captain? His unwillingness to blood other players in senior leadership roles means we're absolutely f
ked for alternative leaders on the pitch. Everyone's either too inexperienced, too ill-disciplined, too thick, or not assured of their place in the team.I think Hartley should come back in, he's our best all round hooker and will be 33 come the next RWC he's the only one of the potential pack I can see has captain. But I've heard he has issues with his temperament?!
Or you take a gamble that someone like Itoje will become a starter and a future leader.
phil_cardiff said:
It's not all about the world cup. Who cares how old they are? Bring them in and let them show the younger players the standards that are required. At the moment you have next to nothing at the breakdown.
Hartley is a toss pot but he's excellent at the line out so that will allow you to pick Lawes and Launchbury. I don't know what's happened to your scrum though.
If I were English I'd be really interested to see what Tuilagi and Joseph could do as a partnership outside Ford.
And Delon Armitage would get in your side on the wing ahead of May who is poor.
Youngs appeared to be getting separated in the scrum, he's a good impact player but coupled with lighter Locks I think that's a route cause for the scrum deficiencies.Hartley is a toss pot but he's excellent at the line out so that will allow you to pick Lawes and Launchbury. I don't know what's happened to your scrum though.
If I were English I'd be really interested to see what Tuilagi and Joseph could do as a partnership outside Ford.
And Delon Armitage would get in your side on the wing ahead of May who is poor.
I don't think we'll ever know if Armatiage would have solved England's back line problems, I half wish he'd get a run as he seems to have mythical status and will continue to do so.
Tuilangi is a 13 but he's still a young bloke with the oppurtunity to improve his all round game. A lot depends on how clubs develop players but I'd like to see Slade at 12, Australia showed last night what another play maker can do at 12 and did pretty well without having any real 'bosh'.
Joey Ramone said:
Welshbeef said:
Who will win 6N 2016?
England could be utterly wiped out - Wales will be back to full strength and now don't look like they can lose to England.
Go and win a world cup, THEN come back and gob off.England could be utterly wiped out - Wales will be back to full strength and now don't look like they can lose to England
. Gloating about winning the World Cup in 2003 seems to be clutching at straws a bit really.
el stovey said:
Italy giving Ireland a good game here
Aren't they, Ireland having to work hard for this one, but seems like a lot of little errors from Ireland are keeping them from a score we were anticipating.Italy incredibly strong in the scrum - did you see that one where the scrum was solid for what felt like a lifetime? (was probably only 20 seconds
)el stovey said:
if anyone is still watching the World Cup.
I am, there's been some thrilling matches this year, just seems that everyone expected the top 6 to run away with it all, and the 'novice' teams are showing that they are learning how to play certain aspects of the game. The Argentina Tonga match was a corker, and can't wait to see the next Ninja Japan match.Really enjoying this series.
(Perhaps we can have a different thread for 'how to fix English rugby' so that we can keep this one on topic for the remaining matches
)
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