RWC 2015

Author
Discussion

phil_cardiff

7,043 posts

207 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
blearyeyedboy said:
phil_cardiff said:
So being debt free is good even though the domestic game withers and dies?

Don't most successful businesses carry some debt?
By all means carry some debt, but only to make sure even more money rolls in. Any big organisation has to secure lots of money to spend on its ambitions. Clever planning by WRU has meant it's in a better financial situation than it would be.

Concerns about the domestic game are a separate argument. The domestic game sorely needs attention, no doubt. But WRU's business savvy has left more money to fix that problem, if only they get on and do it.
Actually, the 2 are interlinked. The WRU have paid off debt qucker than needed at a time when borrowing is as cheap as it ever will be. By paying off debt too quckly they have denied much needed cash to all levels below the international game. Hence poor grass roots participation levels and an exodus of professional players from Wales. Roger Lewis has presided over a mess and his legacy is extremely poor.

blearyeyedboy

6,252 posts

178 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
phil_cardiff said:
Actually, the 2 are interlinked. The WRU have paid off debt qucker than needed at a time when borrowing is as cheap as it ever will be. By paying off debt too quckly they have denied much needed cash to all levels below the international game. Hence poor grass roots participation levels and an exodus of professional players from Wales. Roger Lewis has presided over a mess and his legacy is extremely poor.
I take your point, Phil, and agree to a point. I'm not saying that Roger Lewis has been a shining star either.
What I'm getting at is that the extra money from the Wembley arrangement has been a real cash cow for the WRU. How that extra revenue has been spent (and whether it has all been spent wisely) is certainly debatable, as you say.

I think WRU paying off a heap of debt before interest rates rise will put Welsh rugby in a better position in another decade. However, I'd have liked to have seen a little more diverted to grassroots, as you say. I'm hoping that by less money going on repayments over the next decade, more money will go into the levels below the international game too.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"

Ohhhh dear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...

0000

13,812 posts

190 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"
Just a misunderstanding over a drill instruction. Nothing to see here! smile

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"

Ohhhh dear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...
Wow! The fact that (allegedly) several players took Cip's side tells its own tale (seeing as he's got the rep for being/having been an egotistical idiot). Be interesting to see what comments are made by both side now that this is out...

Slaav

4,240 posts

209 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
funkyrobot said:
Why wasn't this picked up in the game?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34443308
When I saw it I screamed at the TV!

It was clearly at least a yellow IMO. I rewound several times in slow mo and full speed it looked at least dangerous if not outright thuggery.....

Not sure the result would have been very different though!

beer

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
I had presumed that England v Uruguay in Manchester would be being staged at Old Trafford. Apparently not! It's the RL Grand Final in Old Trafford at 6pm, with the dead rubber at 8pm at the Etihad.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
irocfan said:
hornetrider said:
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"

Ohhhh dear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...
Wow! The fact that (allegedly) several players took Cip's side tells its own tale (seeing as he's got the rep for being/having been an egotistical idiot). Be interesting to see what comments are made by both side now that this is out...
I like Cip as a player, at least when he's got his head on straight, but he is an obnoxious git. I saw him when he was 18/19, mouthing off at all and sundry, including refs and other adults.

He was noticeable quality even then, if I could see it you've got to be good, but he pee-ed off just about everyone, which included me.

I was with the father of another of the players and he went off about how rugby had changed, as in his day one of the other side, his own players or the ref would have lumped him one, and if he complained to his coach, he'd have done the same.

It was a pleasant thought.

We'd been told to look out for him but even so, he made an impression, in more ways than one.

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
irocfan said:
hornetrider said:
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"

Ohhhh dear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...
Wow! The fact that (allegedly) several players took Cip's side tells its own tale (seeing as he's got the rep for being/having been an egotistical idiot). Be interesting to see what comments are made by both side now that this is out...
I like Cip as a player, at least when he's got his head on straight, but he is an obnoxious git. I saw him when he was 18/19, mouthing off at all and sundry, including refs and other adults.

He was noticeable quality even then, if I could see it you've got to be good, but he pee-ed off just about everyone, which included me.

I was with the father of another of the players and he went off about how rugby had changed, as in his day one of the other side, his own players or the ref would have lumped him one, and if he complained to his coach, he'd have done the same.

It was a pleasant thought.

We'd been told to look out for him but even so, he made an impression, in more ways than one.
isn't this the thing with 'genius' though? From what I can gather Guscott ain't exactly winning any popularity contests and Campo is 'difficult' too. I'm not excusing bad behaviour by the way - there needs to be a time when a Josh Lewsey gives out a fat lip in order to stop him being too excitable

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Has anyone been nilled yet?

blearyeyedboy

6,252 posts

178 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Crikey, SA are hammering the USA.

In the time I've taken to write this, Havana missed out on a try and a South African maul has scored another one anyway. No one else has been nilled yet, I'm sure.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
irocfan said:
Derek Smith said:
irocfan said:
hornetrider said:
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"

Ohhhh dear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...
Wow! The fact that (allegedly) several players took Cip's side tells its own tale (seeing as he's got the rep for being/having been an egotistical idiot). Be interesting to see what comments are made by both side now that this is out...
I like Cip as a player, at least when he's got his head on straight, but he is an obnoxious git. I saw him when he was 18/19, mouthing off at all and sundry, including refs and other adults.

He was noticeable quality even then, if I could see it you've got to be good, but he pee-ed off just about everyone, which included me.

I was with the father of another of the players and he went off about how rugby had changed, as in his day one of the other side, his own players or the ref would have lumped him one, and if he complained to his coach, he'd have done the same.

It was a pleasant thought.

We'd been told to look out for him but even so, he made an impression, in more ways than one.
isn't this the thing with 'genius' though? From what I can gather Guscott ain't exactly winning any popularity contests and Campo is 'difficult' too. I'm not excusing bad behaviour by the way - there needs to be a time when a Josh Lewsey gives out a fat lip in order to stop him being too excitable
If Catt did indeed use those words then that should be the end of his career as attack coach for England.

It's not as if he has anything to brag about in terms of performance.

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
DocJock said:
irocfan said:
Derek Smith said:
irocfan said:
hornetrider said:
Catt to Cipriani - "I will end your England career"

Ohhhh dear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...
Wow! The fact that (allegedly) several players took Cip's side tells its own tale (seeing as he's got the rep for being/having been an egotistical idiot). Be interesting to see what comments are made by both side now that this is out...
I like Cip as a player, at least when he's got his head on straight, but he is an obnoxious git. I saw him when he was 18/19, mouthing off at all and sundry, including refs and other adults.

He was noticeable quality even then, if I could see it you've got to be good, but he pee-ed off just about everyone, which included me.

I was with the father of another of the players and he went off about how rugby had changed, as in his day one of the other side, his own players or the ref would have lumped him one, and if he complained to his coach, he'd have done the same. It was a pleasant thought.

We'd been told to look out for him but even so, he made an impression, in more ways than one.
isn't this the thing with 'genius' though? From what I can gather Guscott ain't exactly winning any popularity contests and Campo is 'difficult' too. I'm not excusing bad behaviour by the way - there needs to be a time when a Josh Lewsey gives out a fat lip in order to stop him being too excitable
If Catt did indeed use those words then that should be the end of his career as attack coach for England.

It's not as if he has anything to brag about in terms of performance.
well this is it - it is an appalling attitude to have in a senior coach (if true) and if proven to be true should spell the end of any England connection

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
The trouble is - it doesn't ring true. At least not what is being reported at face value. Daddy Faz or Towntree saying it - yes. Mike "skills" Catt who has more attacking talent in his little finger than 90% of English backs have had put together over the last decade would be the guy nurturing someone like Cip. There is another story here yet to come out.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Hence the qualification at the start of my post.

blearyeyedboy

6,252 posts

178 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Meanwhile, on the field...

South Africa hammered USA today. They're finding their stride. We never thought USA would beat them but the Saffers are linking together much better and their morale has improved.

Would I expect Wales to beat them after being a bit worn out after they've met Australia? I wouldn't be confident.

spikeyhead

17,225 posts

196 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Georgia Namibia manage a 68 minute first half

TheGreatSoprendo

5,286 posts

248 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
spikeyhead said:
Georgia Namibia manage a 68 minute first half
I've just tuned in and the clock was on 49 mins or so. I assumed it was the 2nd half so was quite confused when the ref blew for half time!

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
Honestly those of you that follow clubs in the AP don't know how lucky you are. Every fking week we get this total gobste Clancy in the Pro12 and he's NEVER improved.

In fact, I think he's getting worse.

phil_cardiff

7,043 posts

207 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
blearyeyedboy said:
phil_cardiff said:
Actually, the 2 are interlinked. The WRU have paid off debt qucker than needed at a time when borrowing is as cheap as it ever will be. By paying off debt too quckly they have denied much needed cash to all levels below the international game. Hence poor grass roots participation levels and an exodus of professional players from Wales. Roger Lewis has presided over a mess and his legacy is extremely poor.
I take your point, Phil, and agree to a point. I'm not saying that Roger Lewis has been a shining star either.
What I'm getting at is that the extra money from the Wembley arrangement has been a real cash cow for the WRU. How that extra revenue has been spent (and whether it has all been spent wisely) is certainly debatable, as you say.

I think WRU paying off a heap of debt before interest rates rise will put Welsh rugby in a better position in another decade. However, I'd have liked to have seen a little more diverted to grassroots, as you say. I'm hoping that by less money going on repayments over the next decade, more money will go into the levels below the international game too.
I hope so too. There's rumours around Jon Davies leaving Clermont to sign a dual contract with the Scarlets. Hope that's true too.