Cricket: 2014 India tour of England, 9th July-7th September

[TheAngryDog]

Did anyone hear Piers Morgan on TalkSport this morning about KP?

Brian Moore both owned and was owned by Piers Morgan.

I do not like Morgan but he does have a point about KP, and why Moore kept asking Morgan for his sources. Very amateurish given everyone knows Morgan's friendship with KP so it doesn't take a genius to work out the source, so naming his source could infringe on the agreement not to discuss it.

Morgan isn't doing KP any favours though.

[zygalski]

KP isn't the answer to anything, either in a team-building sense or based on his steadily declining performances for England over the last couple of years.

[TheAngryDog]

Perhaps not, though I'm sure he could do a Job.

I don't think anyone really knows the answer, but what we have now cannot carry on.

Has Prior "quit" on his own terms? I know he hasn't retired, but can you really see him back the team if Buttler does well? Or will it be a case of the old pals brigade and all he has to do is ring Cook up?

[Amirhussain]

I think Prior has played his last test match. He isn't 100% fit, so I have no idea why the selectors picked him.

England and Alastair Cook have become the laughing stock of the cricket world.

[Challo]

TheAngryDog said:

Did anyone hear Piers Morgan on TalkSport this morning about KP?

Brian Moore both owned and was owned by Piers Morgan.

I do not like Morgan but he does have a point about KP, and why Moore kept asking Morgan for his sources. Very amateurish given everyone knows Morgan's friendship with KP so it doesn't take a genius to work out the source, so naming his source could infringe on the agreement not to discuss it.

Morgan isn't doing KP any favours though.

Morgan is an idiot about KP. Yes Kevin was a fantastic batsman but is not the player he used to be. Too many issues surrounding upset in the dressing room, the guy slagged off team mates to an opposing team during a test match not exactly the guy you want young players looking up to.

Plus he only plays IPL because of the money, and his record in the is seasons IPL as captain is played 14 (won 2, lost 12) they finished rock bottom. Not really a glowing reference in terms of being a captain and a leader.

They need to move forward, look to the future and its not KP.

[BlackLabel]

I feel sorry for Prior. The management must have known about his health concerns and had a duty of care towards him. He was put in an impossible position being selected when obviously unfit as I assume it was felt he was needed for support to Cook. Sad way to end

[hornetrider]

spikeyhead said:

A possible 11 for the next test

Carberry
Robson
Balance
Root
Cook
Moeen
Jordan
Buttler
Onions
Finn
Anderson

Prior looks broken, Broad looks like he's breaking, I'd love to put a spinner in there but we don't have a class act to put in.

I'd go:

Cook
Compton
Ballance
Carberry
Bell
Morgan (C)
Buttler
Moeen
Tremlett/Finn/Plunkett (Pick 2)
Anderson

Don't know what Compton and Carberry have (or haven't) done to have been cast aside. Get them back in and give Carberry the KP role. And give Moeen some serious twirling overs, see if he can step up.

[Challo]

graphene said:

Challo said:

Morgan is an idiot about KP. Yes Kevin was a fantastic batsman but is not the player he used to be. Too many issues surrounding upset in the dressing room, the guy slagged off team mates to an opposing team during a test match not exactly the guy you want young players looking up to.

Plus he only plays IPL because of the money, and his record in the is seasons IPL as captain is played 14 (won 2, lost 12) they finished rock bottom. Not really a glowing reference in terms of being a captain and a leader.

They need to move forward, look to the future and its not KP.

You could say the same about half the current team, the management and coaching. This was supposed to be the 'future' and it has, categorically, not worked. How many more 'moves forward' do they need?

If KP had not been sacked, and was selected, do you think he would be playing in an England shirt?

Yes I agree the other senior players have also been very poor as well. There has been some very glaring errors made by the men in suits which has therefore had an impact on the team. No succession plans have been put in place and unfortunately the team is suffering because of it.

Would KP be playing if he wasn't sacked? Probably, and I think we would still be in this mess.

[TheAngryDog]

Challo said:

TheAngryDog said:

Did anyone hear Piers Morgan on TalkSport this morning about KP?

Brian Moore both owned and was owned by Piers Morgan.

I do not like Morgan but he does have a point about KP, and why Moore kept asking Morgan for his sources. Very amateurish given everyone knows Morgan's friendship with KP so it doesn't take a genius to work out the source, so naming his source could infringe on the agreement not to discuss it.

Morgan isn't doing KP any favours though.

Morgan is an idiot about KP. Yes Kevin was a fantastic batsman but is not the player he used to be. Too many issues surrounding upset in the dressing room, the guy slagged off team mates to an opposing team during a test match not exactly the guy you want young players looking up to.

Plus he only plays IPL because of the money, and his record in the is seasons IPL as captain is played 14 (won 2, lost 12) they finished rock bottom. Not really a glowing reference in terms of being a captain and a leader.

They need to move forward, look to the future and its not KP.

The problem is, that sacking KP was meant to be seen as moving forward, but this hasn't happened. England are not improving.

Are England as a unit better off for not having KP in the team? Possibly. Are England better off as a team on the pitch for not having him in the team? The jury is still out on that one.


The Ashes series failure was 100% blamed on KP. He's not in the team and England are still failing. So what else is wrong? Were the selectors hoping that him not being in the team would magically fix everything? Very naive if they did.

It has been a farce since the moment Swann retired mid series.
Flower saw this coming and got out, Moores wasn't the answer and now continuing with Cook isn't the answer either. A good captain would know when it is time to step aside. Botham did it and his game was much improved for doing so.

[irocfan]

Challo said:

Plus he only plays IPL because of the money, and his record in the is seasons IPL as captain is played 14 (won 2, lost 12) they finished rock bottom. Not really a glowing reference in terms of being a captain and a leader.

professional sportsman only plays for the money!!! HOW DARE HE??? He should play for the love of the game and his exploits will ensure that he can feed and clothe himself and give him somewhere to live through the graciousness of the fans.......

[TheAngryDog]

irocfan said:

Challo said:

Plus he only plays IPL because of the money, and his record in the is seasons IPL as captain is played 14 (won 2, lost 12) they finished rock bottom. Not really a glowing reference in terms of being a captain and a leader.

professional sportsman only plays for the money!!! HOW DARE HE??? He should play for the love of the game and his exploits will ensure that he can feed and clothe himself and give him somewhere to live through the graciousness of the fans.......

Quite, same as every other professional sportsman. Pretty sure they'd find some other form of gainful employment if they werent being paid...

[a311]

I was a KP fan but he won't be back, scratch that I don't think he should come back even if it could happen. He's 34 now so would maybe have what another 4 years max in him? Even then you'd expect him to be well beyond peak in the not too distant future? 35/36 must be average sort for age for retiring for a batsman at a rough guess? Ponting and Tendulkar played on but their form was well down too.

[GloverMart]

I think the point he was making was that (and correct me if I'm wrong) Pietersen chose to play IPL rather than play for England a couple of years back. England wanted him to stay with them and he wanted to chase the bucks in India.

[Gargamel]

GloverMart said:

I think the point he was making was that (and correct me if I'm wrong) Pietersen chose to play IPL rather than play for England a couple of years back. England wanted him to stay with them and he wanted to chase the bucks in India.

Ok but put yourself in his place though. All the other test teams release their players for IPL, KP was effectively saying, rather than play me in Durham in May in an ODI against Kenya/Ireland/Scotland or at best Sri Lanka or Windies shorn of Gayle etc. Let me go to the IPL, and I will be back for the main test series.

England could have tried out some youngsters, KP gets his professional freedom.

Sadly, the ECB couldn't see that central contracts are a blessing and a curse, and they certainly didn't want to make an exception, when virtually no other England player was of interest to the IPL teams.

In the end, KP played two or three weeks and then had to come back before the end of the tournament. A shabby compromise, suited no one and subsequently led to a wierd situation where our best T20 and ODI batsman wasn't selected for those formats. How did we manage that !

Anyway - in my view all water under the bridge, KP isn't coming back, too much baggage and right now not enough form

PS if Compton or Carberry get into the side then you know we are in a lot of trouble

[irocfan]

GloverMart said:

I think the point he was making was that (and correct me if I'm wrong) Pietersen chose to play IPL rather than play for England a couple of years back. England wanted him to stay with them and he wanted to chase the bucks in India.

Again (without knowing more) I find it hard to criticise that - a professional sportsman has got a limited 'shelf life' and cricketers don't get paid footballer's salaries. IIRC there was a small over-lap of dates but the powers that be were unwilling to move - as was he!) and he was not the only one to take the dollar - as far as I could make out this was all about control of players

[London424]

irocfan said:

GloverMart said:

I think the point he was making was that (and correct me if I'm wrong) Pietersen chose to play IPL rather than play for England a couple of years back. England wanted him to stay with them and he wanted to chase the bucks in India.

Again (without knowing more) I find it hard to criticise that - a professional sportsman has got a limited 'shelf life' and cricketers don't get paid footballer's salaries. IIRC there was a small over-lap of dates but the powers that be were unwilling to move - as was he!) and he was not the only one to take the dollar - as far as I could make out this was all about control of players

From what I've heard/read it's also that there are a few green eyed monsters in the dressing room, that wanted to play in the IPL but didn't get bought at auction so have not been very supportive of those that have.

[Gargamel]

graphene said:

Why? Carberry was solid during the Ashes tour when others were not. Put Cook down the order - because they are not going to drop him, and if they don't change the pattern, it could just roll on and on.

Leaving aside his six tests for 345 runs of 12 innings for 28 run average. And that he is now 33.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/...

That article, although I support the player and can easily see that Englands whole man management strategy is essentially bks, shows why he probably isn't coming back unless another 10 batsmen die in freak gardening accidents

[Challo]

irocfan said:

GloverMart said:

I think the point he was making was that (and correct me if I'm wrong) Pietersen chose to play IPL rather than play for England a couple of years back. England wanted him to stay with them and he wanted to chase the bucks in India.

Again (without knowing more) I find it hard to criticise that - a professional sportsman has got a limited 'shelf life' and cricketers don't get paid footballer's salaries. IIRC there was a small over-lap of dates but the powers that be were unwilling to move - as was he!) and he was not the only one to take the dollar - as far as I could make out this was all about control of players

It wasn't a dig at him personally making money in the IPL. It was more at some people Morgan included saying that he should be back in the test side. He has decided that T20 cricket is what he wants to do, earn his money and good on him for doing it.

He is not playing test cricket at the moment and hasn't been in the greatest form scoring runs, and his captaincy for DD in the IPL was pretty shocking.

His coming back into the England fold would be a backward step.

[hornetrider]

Gargamel said:

Leaving aside his six tests for 345 runs of 12 innings for 28 run average. And that he is now 33.

That's against Mitchell 'gunslinger' Johnson in Australia. How did he compare to everyone else? We have a fair few young'uns in the side, nowt wrong with a bit of maturity and we could easily get 3 years out of him.

[ralphrj]

Gargamel said:

All the other test teams release their players for IPL

The IPL situation is unique for England as the tournament does not clash with the domestic season of any other test playing country.