A fishing rod question

[slow_poke]

So stars are basically pretty simple. The tricky thing about them is adjusting the amount of drag you need whilst in the middle of the fight of your life with the fish of your dreams. You really don't want faffing, you need to know how to and how much by to adjust drag, almost automatically, without thinking about it.

There's your tricky bit, and stars aren't the best there.

[blindswelledrat]

slow_poke said:

So stars are basically pretty simple. The tricky thing about them is adjusting the amount of drag you need whilst in the middle of the fight of your life with the fish of your dreams. You really don't want faffing, you need to know how to and how much by to adjust drag, almost automatically, without thinking about it.

There's your tricky bit, and stars aren't the best there.

Yes I am a bit worried about that tbh. The reason I always wind backwards instead of setting drags is from losing big (for the time) fish when I was young. You set the drag at what you think is right and either a)the fish makes a particularly quick strong run and breaks your line or b)your drag is set too lightly and you are giving a fish an unnecessary amount of line.
I never knew if that was because I had st reels or whether that was a hazard. But adjusting fixed spools from the front mid-fight seems hugely impractical.

Also, as an aside, I am unlikely to be buying multipliers now. THe braid that was recommended in this thread is ludicrously thin for its strength and so I can buy fairly large fixed spools which will hold enough line and which I will be able to use again after this trip

[KemP]

I use lever drags on all of my reels. That way I can adjust mid fight. Remember that the drag setting changes with the amount of line let off the reel. The drag increases with more line out. There was a video that explains it nicely on youtube some where. Might be worth remembering if you are expecting the fish to take a lot of line.

[blindswelledrat]

KemP said:

I use lever drags on all of my reels. That way I can adjust mid fight. Remember that the drag setting changes with the amount of line let off the reel. The drag increases with more line out. There was a video that explains it nicely on youtube some where. Might be worth remembering if you are expecting the fish to take a lot of line.

Fascinating- I did not know that. When you say increases, do you mean the line is harder to pull off, i.e. you could set your drag perfectly but then at a certain amount of line out it might just snap for seemingly no reason?

[blindswelledrat]

An interesting article here for you other anglers, btw, that someone sent me about a trip for goliaths

http://theflyguides.com/tfg-blog/item/finding-goli...

[blindswelledrat]

Oh, another question:
I was looking into those grips recommended on this thread(boka grips?) and the only ones I seem to come across were labelled as 30lbs. Is that actually descriptive of the maximum fish size or spring strength? Are those two things even different?

[slow_poke]

blindswelledrat said:

Oh, another question:
I was looking into those grips recommended on this thread(boka grips?) and the only ones I seem to come across were labelled as 30lbs. Is that actually descriptive of the maximum fish size or spring strength? Are those two things even different?

Spring strength, for weighting the fishie. Boca grips come in two sizes, 15 & 30. They're pretty st for weighing a fish though, having it hang by its jaws for you to weigh.

I lost mine somewhere, I miss them.they are class.

[sparkythecat]

KemP said:

I use lever drags on all of my reels. That way I can adjust mid fight. Remember that the drag setting changes with the amount of line let off the reel. The drag increases with more line out. There was a video that explains it nicely on youtube some where. Might be worth remembering if you are expecting the fish to take a lot of line.

Are you sure that you are not confusing two issues here?

On a multiplier casting reel the amount of braking required to prevent line overruns varies with the amount of line let off the reel. This is because as line is paid out, the effective diameter of the spool decreases and so the spool needs to revolve quicker to pay out line at the same rate. Therefore the braking setting needs to be adjusted mid cast. With magnetic braking systems this reel braking adjustment can be made whilst the lead is in flight. I've seen You tube videos of this being done.

However, most multiplier reels designed specifically for boat fishing, ie NOT casting reels, don't contain any braking system as it's not required.

Drag systems on multiplier reels of any sort, whether lever or star drag rely on the friction between a series of dissimilar material washers, to act as a clutch, and allow line to be taken from the spool whilst the reel gears are still engaged. The amount of drag is adjusted by varying the compression forces acting on the washers.

Drag should be properly preset ( with a spring balance if necessary) before fishing begins, taking into account the test curve of the rod and the breaking strain of the line. Once properly preset, there shouldn't really be any need to adjust it.

The only exception that I can think of is that of when an angler has been battling a massive big game fish for a prolonged period and needs to allow the fish to take line more easily in order to give himself a bit of a breather. That's why most of the reels designed for such heavy fishing are lever drag reels.

I'm happy to be corrected but I can't quite see the correlation between amount of line on the spool and the amount of drag required. Why would the drag need to vary depending on on how much line is out?

Edited by sparkythecat on Monday 3rd November 14:33

[slow_poke]

You had your own answer there - diameter of spool with line on vs diameter of spool with a load of line out..... = different forces, mathematically. There'll be a google about it somewhere.....

[slow_poke]

http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/Tutorials/Spool%2...

Good ol' google.

[sparkythecat]

Cheers for that Slow Poke.
They say every day is a learning day and I'm always happy to learn more about fishing.

Looks like I need to catch much bigger fish than I'm used to in order to put the theory to the test.



Here's a link to the original thread from which your diagram came, which helps explain a little better.
http://www.ultimateangling.co.za/index.php?topic=5...

Edited by sparkythecat on Monday 3rd November 17:28

[KemP]

blindswelledrat said:

Fascinating- I did not know that. When you say increases, do you mean the line is harder to pull off, i.e. you could set your drag perfectly but then at a certain amount of line out it might just snap for seemingly no reason?

Correct

[otolith]

Spool is a pulley which gets smaller as the line comes off.

[KemP]

sparkythecat said:

Are you sure that you are not confusing two issues here?

On a multiplier casting reel the amount of braking required to prevent line overruns varies with the amount of line let off the reel. This is because as line is paid out, the effective diameter of the spool decreases and so the spool needs to revolve quicker to pay out line at the same rate. Therefore the braking setting needs to be adjusted mid cast. With magnetic braking systems this reel braking adjustment can be made whilst the lead is in flight. I've seen You tube videos of this being done.

However, most multiplier reels designed specifically for boat fishing, ie NOT casting reels, don't contain any braking system as it's not required.

Drag systems on multiplier reels of any sort, whether lever or star drag rely on the friction between a series of dissimilar material washers, to act as a clutch, and allow line to be taken from the spool whilst the reel gears are still engaged. The amount of drag is adjusted by varying the compression forces acting on the washers.

Drag should be properly preset ( with a spring balance if necessary) before fishing begins, taking into account the test curve of the rod and the breaking strain of the line. Once properly preset, there shouldn't really be any need to adjust it.

The only exception that I can think of is that of when an angler has been battling a massive big game fish for a prolonged period and needs to allow the fish to take line more easily in order to give himself a bit of a breather. That's why most of the reels designed for such heavy fishing are lever drag reels.

I'm happy to be corrected but I can't quite see the correlation between amount of line on the spool and the amount of drag required. Why would the drag need to vary depending on on how much line is out?

Edited by sparkythecat on Monday 3rd November 14:33

I didn't think of casting multipliers. I was mainly meaning fixed spool and the shimano TLD i use

Most of my fishing is done from a boat. I do a lot of trolling and lever drag is brilliant at preventing fish being bumped off. Set the drag light so when you hook up the fish is fairly free to run. Gives me time to knock the boat out of gear and take the rod out the holder. Then tighten down the drag and play the fish. I fish with really light tackle so adjust the drag mind fight is a must for me Also if I have to move the boat mind fight its nice to back the drag off


I see you have found what I was trying to get at

[leglessAlex]

KemP said:

blindswelledrat said:

Fascinating- I did not know that. When you say increases, do you mean the line is harder to pull off, i.e. you could set your drag perfectly but then at a certain amount of line out it might just snap for seemingly no reason?

Correct

Just as a point to remember, unless you have a very expensive or big game reel, most reels won't actually give enough resistance for the line to snap, especially if using 20lb plus lines.

For instance, my Avet SX has a max drag of 14 lbs (which is fairly good for a small reel) or so so and if I'm fishing with 18lb line that's in good condition the drag will give way before the line snaps. Of course, this doesn't take into account weaknesses and knots in the line but you get the point. If you are fishing with 25lb-30lb braid it will be nigh on impossible to snap the line simply from having the drag set too tight. You're probably more likely to snap the rod.

[blindswelledrat]

Very interesting. I never knew that. This thread has been like a mini fishing school.
Is the upshot of that, that there is no point using lines stronger than 20lbs?

On to my next question.
Having decided to go a bit lighter I bought myself three Century carp rods with 3.5lbs test curve.
I understand what test-curve relates to but what kind of pressure will cause them to snap?

[leglessAlex]

Well, yes and no. Once you take things like knotted strength into account and possible wear and tear on the line it's nice to have line that's a bit stronger, but not that much stronger. I'm firmly of the belief that there's no fish in the British Isles that needs more than 30lb mono and probably very few fish in the world that need more. I'd go a bit heavier with braid but that's purely because it's not as tough, it can't take as much abrasion as monofilament can.

As for the test curve thing, I have no idea. I reckon 15lbs of pressure at the tip would be enough to snap a rod like that, maybe less. That's a pure guess though, others with more experience would have a better idea.

[Mr Gearchange]

On my fixed spool reels (Diawa Entohs) I can lock the clutch down completely - I have pulled for a break on 22lb test line before now and it's parted without the clutch paying any line out.

Also pretty much all lines (mono, flouro or braid) break at well over their stated strain anyway.

The Tackle Box has a very useful resource on the actual breaking strain and diameter v the actual on a huge array of fishing line...

http://www.tacklebox.co.uk/pdfs/line_tests.pdf

[blindswelledrat]

Good stuff. Braid didn't fare too well there at all I notice.

[KemP]

leglessAlex said:

Just as a point to remember, unless you have a very expensive or big game reel, most reels won't actually give enough resistance for the line to snap, especially if using 20lb plus lines.

For instance, my Avet SX has a max drag of 14 lbs (which is fairly good for a small reel) or so so and if I'm fishing with 18lb line that's in good condition the drag will give way before the line snaps. Of course, this doesn't take into account weaknesses and knots in the line but you get the point. If you are fishing with 25lb-30lb braid it will be nigh on impossible to snap the line simply from having the drag set too tight. You're probably more likely to snap the rod.

Very true. The TLD 15 i have only has drag of 4kgs but i use 30kgs braid. Its not the braid I am worried about snapping its the hook pulling out or the rod snapping. I only use a 6-12lb rod and have the drag set at 3kgs. I also fish in fairly deep water. Anything from 20m to 100m. Fish get towards 20kgs

I guess I set the drag to the rods capabilties and not the line strength. Both my spinning reels are loaded with 13kgs braid but the rods are 10/40grams and 25/50grms so really light. But I need the braid strength in case anything big turns and to battle the tide