Rugby Union Autumn Internationals
Discussion
Slaav said:
irocfan said:
I'll admit that the Wales/NZ scoreline made me feel a lot better about our loss 
Wales played brilliantly for 65-70 mins of their game v NZ. Not sure we can say the same.....TheGreatSoprendo said:
irocfan said:
It is interesting Wales played brilliantly for over 3/4 of the match but ended up getting hammered and everyone is happy
Oh really? Perhaps you could point to any player, member of the coaching team or even any fan who is happy to have lost on Saturday?
I merely meant if you didn't know the score and read the reviews of both matches I suspect you'd have thought that England had been pummelled rather than Wales (give me some crumbs man, the way things are going I can see Wales beating us in the rounds not to mention us having a distinctly dicky tie with Oz 
)I thought Wales were great value. Rhys Webb is a real find, Faletau was superb and the backline were essentially impregnable for most of the game. 20 mins more of that, and things would have been in the balance
I agree with the point made that England only came up just short against the AB's and SA while playing badly, but reason we play badly is because the opposition present us with problems that require ad-hoc thinking, intelligence and nous in order to prevail. In other words the ability to consciously (or even subconsciously) adapt to the game as it changes shape in front of you. That seems to be beyond us at the moment. So we just sit there, pinned in our own half for endless periods, going side to side while the opposition simply contain us without too much effort, and then we congratulate ourselves for coming close, when in fact we never really had a chance of winning.
It's something that's always struck me about the England team over the last decade i.e. they just don't seem to be able to think their way out of problems when required, lose their skills under pressure, and revert to mindlessly and unimaginatively slugging away, overcoming weaker teams through sheer attrition rather than skill, and then inevitably coming up short when encountering the top 2/3. It's massively frustrating, because there is no way on God's earth that those players are unable, if given the correct environment, coaching and freedom, to achieve world class standards.
PS I think Ford will be a superstar. Never seen such a cool head on young shoulders with the ball in hand, not since Carter in his pomp, anyway.
I agree with the point made that England only came up just short against the AB's and SA while playing badly, but reason we play badly is because the opposition present us with problems that require ad-hoc thinking, intelligence and nous in order to prevail. In other words the ability to consciously (or even subconsciously) adapt to the game as it changes shape in front of you. That seems to be beyond us at the moment. So we just sit there, pinned in our own half for endless periods, going side to side while the opposition simply contain us without too much effort, and then we congratulate ourselves for coming close, when in fact we never really had a chance of winning.
It's something that's always struck me about the England team over the last decade i.e. they just don't seem to be able to think their way out of problems when required, lose their skills under pressure, and revert to mindlessly and unimaginatively slugging away, overcoming weaker teams through sheer attrition rather than skill, and then inevitably coming up short when encountering the top 2/3. It's massively frustrating, because there is no way on God's earth that those players are unable, if given the correct environment, coaching and freedom, to achieve world class standards.
PS I think Ford will be a superstar. Never seen such a cool head on young shoulders with the ball in hand, not since Carter in his pomp, anyway.
Joey Ramone said:
I thought Wales were great value. Rhys Webb is a real find, Faletau was superb and the backline were essentially impregnable for most of the game. 20 mins more of that, and things would have been in the balance
I agree with the point made that England only came up just short against the AB's and SA while playing badly, but reason we play badly is because the opposition present us with problems that require ad-hoc thinking, intelligence and nous in order to prevail. In other words the ability to consciously (or even subconsciously) adapt to the game as it changes shape in front of you. That seems to be beyond us at the moment. So we just sit there, pinned in our own half for endless periods, going side to side while the opposition simply contain us without too much effort, and then we congratulate ourselves for coming close, when in fact we never really had a chance of winning.
It's something that's always struck me about the England team over the last decade i.e. they just don't seem to be able to think their way out of problems when required, lose their skills under pressure, and revert to mindlessly and unimaginatively slugging away, overcoming weaker teams through sheer attrition rather than skill, and then inevitably coming up short when encountering the top 2/3. It's massively frustrating, because there is no way on God's earth that those players are unable, if given the correct environment, coaching and freedom, to achieve world class standards.
PS I think Ford will be a superstar. Never seen such a cool head on young shoulders with the ball in hand, not since Carter in his pomp, anyway.
That sir, is just about spot on.I agree with the point made that England only came up just short against the AB's and SA while playing badly, but reason we play badly is because the opposition present us with problems that require ad-hoc thinking, intelligence and nous in order to prevail. In other words the ability to consciously (or even subconsciously) adapt to the game as it changes shape in front of you. That seems to be beyond us at the moment. So we just sit there, pinned in our own half for endless periods, going side to side while the opposition simply contain us without too much effort, and then we congratulate ourselves for coming close, when in fact we never really had a chance of winning.
It's something that's always struck me about the England team over the last decade i.e. they just don't seem to be able to think their way out of problems when required, lose their skills under pressure, and revert to mindlessly and unimaginatively slugging away, overcoming weaker teams through sheer attrition rather than skill, and then inevitably coming up short when encountering the top 2/3. It's massively frustrating, because there is no way on God's earth that those players are unable, if given the correct environment, coaching and freedom, to achieve world class standards.
PS I think Ford will be a superstar. Never seen such a cool head on young shoulders with the ball in hand, not since Carter in his pomp, anyway.
Our decision making is poor under pressure and at times our execution is worse.
The Woodward mantra of "keep the pill" and "TCUP" should be cornerstones of any side. Do these things well and you will be very, very difficult to beat.
I hope it improves soon.
Our next 2 games are Australia and Wales. If we can't get it right (or nearly right) in those 2, I don't think there will be much for them to fear in the pool of RWC and we could look in trouble.
Beast the whole team in training and then practice the drills and offloads? Learn in a classroom and DO in the real world?
At my own highest level of rugby training, we did shuttle runs and cross training between the set piece drills? The basic idea was always to get the worst forward to perform when he struggled to spell his own name.... This side isn't exactly new?
At my own highest level of rugby training, we did shuttle runs and cross training between the set piece drills? The basic idea was always to get the worst forward to perform when he struggled to spell his own name.... This side isn't exactly new?
Slaav said:
Beast the whole team in training and then practice the drills and offloads? Learn in a classroom and DO in the real world?
At my own highest level of rugby training, we did shuttle runs and cross training between the set piece drills? The basic idea was always to get the worst forward to perform when he struggled to spell his own name.... This side isn't exactly new?
Oh I'm sure they just have a bit of a jolly up when on England duty. Light jog round the pitch...bit of a stretch then onto the ping pong tournament and darts championship At my own highest level of rugby training, we did shuttle runs and cross training between the set piece drills? The basic idea was always to get the worst forward to perform when he struggled to spell his own name.... This side isn't exactly new?
London424 said:
Slaav said:
Beast the whole team in training and then practice the drills and offloads? Learn in a classroom and DO in the real world?
At my own highest level of rugby training, we did shuttle runs and cross training between the set piece drills? The basic idea was always to get the worst forward to perform when he struggled to spell his own name.... This side isn't exactly new?
Oh I'm sure they just have a bit of a jolly up when on England duty. Light jog round the pitch...bit of a stretch then onto the ping pong tournament and darts championship At my own highest level of rugby training, we did shuttle runs and cross training between the set piece drills? The basic idea was always to get the worst forward to perform when he struggled to spell his own name.... This side isn't exactly new?
(As I am sure you know )Seriously though, further training under intense pressure looks lacking to me. And isn't it well known that most team meetings on the pitch are Morris dancing anyway?
Joey Ramone said:
I agree with the point made that England only came up just short against the AB's and SA while playing badly, but reason we play badly is because the opposition present us with problems that require ad-hoc thinking, intelligence and nous in order to prevail. In other words the ability to consciously (or even subconsciously) adapt to the game as it changes shape in front of you. That seems to be beyond us at the moment. So we just sit there, pinned in our own half for endless periods, going side to side while the opposition simply contain us without too much effort, and then we congratulate ourselves for coming close, when in fact we never really had a chance of winning.
It's something that's always struck me about the England team over the last decade i.e. they just don't seem to be able to think their way out of problems when required, lose their skills under pressure, and revert to mindlessly and unimaginatively slugging away, overcoming weaker teams through sheer attrition rather than skill, and then inevitably coming up short when encountering the top 2/3. It's massively frustrating, because there is no way on God's earth that those players are unable, if given the correct environment, coaching and freedom, to achieve world class standards.
This sums it up. England play seminar/flip chart/robotic rugby. All coaching, from brushing their teeth upwards. It's something that's always struck me about the England team over the last decade i.e. they just don't seem to be able to think their way out of problems when required, lose their skills under pressure, and revert to mindlessly and unimaginatively slugging away, overcoming weaker teams through sheer attrition rather than skill, and then inevitably coming up short when encountering the top 2/3. It's massively frustrating, because there is no way on God's earth that those players are unable, if given the correct environment, coaching and freedom, to achieve world class standards.
Mike Brown is looking outstanding, as he would appear to be playing Angry Birds, during these laborious seminars, and as such either ignores or simply doesn't understand the
pie charts and diagrams.
The other massive issue, is that they've picked the 'nicest' man in rugby as a Captain. Which he isn't.....he's 'nice'.
Until they rip up the 3M flip chart, sack the feng shui boot lace arranger, and put Tom Wood as Captain...they will continue to offer less than the sum of their parts.
Perhaps Gatland should consider playing this guy at openside tomorrow. Textbook technique at the breakdown!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfDqMP4pJV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfDqMP4pJV4
I've had to largely avoid this thread during the series because I knew reading it would just annoy me, but we are at the end and it's an ok time. There is only one reason England lost against NZ and the Boks...basic errors.
Not robotic rugby. Not because of robshaw as Captain. Not because of SBW. Not because of the English midfield, creativity or blah blah blah, but simple basic skills and in isolated incidents at that.
Mike Brown dropping a try scoring ball because he has been working himself back into form (last yr it would have been a simple try) scratched one win.
The only whinge to have validity was picking OF when he wasn't match sharp. That has been a performance impact and arguable that his and Danny C's kicking cost us a match, but again that is a basic skill issue.
I'm not Care's biggest fan, never have been and I've said it fairly often, however, he has been a reasonably consistent high performer over the last two seasons - much like Brown. So in England's 3 key back positions Lancaster had his 3 main men out of form and/or lacking match fitness. His gamble was to play them and get them back into the groove. It's worked for Brown who has performed better each match but it hasn't for OF and Care.
England are a lot lot closer to NZ and the Boks than ppl give them credit for. In a WC on home turd next yr Id back them against the Boks quite easily - actually I think they would blow them away, England's Pack will be superlative by then on this current increment performance increase. The Backs don't need to be special, just competent. Cut the basic errors out and they will be.
NZ? Hmmm. The best for a reason.
On a side note Ireland have been far better than I was expecting, a very interesting wild card for next yr. Their first XV is superb, so they will be praying to the injury Gods!
Not robotic rugby. Not because of robshaw as Captain. Not because of SBW. Not because of the English midfield, creativity or blah blah blah, but simple basic skills and in isolated incidents at that.
Mike Brown dropping a try scoring ball because he has been working himself back into form (last yr it would have been a simple try) scratched one win.
The only whinge to have validity was picking OF when he wasn't match sharp. That has been a performance impact and arguable that his and Danny C's kicking cost us a match, but again that is a basic skill issue.
I'm not Care's biggest fan, never have been and I've said it fairly often, however, he has been a reasonably consistent high performer over the last two seasons - much like Brown. So in England's 3 key back positions Lancaster had his 3 main men out of form and/or lacking match fitness. His gamble was to play them and get them back into the groove. It's worked for Brown who has performed better each match but it hasn't for OF and Care.
England are a lot lot closer to NZ and the Boks than ppl give them credit for. In a WC on home turd next yr Id back them against the Boks quite easily - actually I think they would blow them away, England's Pack will be superlative by then on this current increment performance increase. The Backs don't need to be special, just competent. Cut the basic errors out and they will be.
NZ? Hmmm. The best for a reason.
On a side note Ireland have been far better than I was expecting, a very interesting wild card for next yr. Their first XV is superb, so they will be praying to the injury Gods!
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