Rugby Union Autumn Internationals
Discussion
Big game for England and Stuart Lancaster today.
Missed the Samoa game with being on holiday but found a place showing the game today. By all accounts the Samoa game wasn't particulary inspired with the only person playing himself in being Ford? Shame Haskell didn't turn in a performance warranting another start today. From what I read we played far too loose against the Samoan's we need to play down our strengths to win tonight. Doesn't necessarily all have to be 'up the jumper rugby' we just need to smash em up front.
Need a win tonight otherwise mentally it will be seen as we're further behind than we were at this stage 12 months ago. The Aussies will want this desperately but at least have half an excuse of the the back room shenanigans pre tour with the new coach etc.
Missed the Samoa game with being on holiday but found a place showing the game today. By all accounts the Samoa game wasn't particulary inspired with the only person playing himself in being Ford? Shame Haskell didn't turn in a performance warranting another start today. From what I read we played far too loose against the Samoan's we need to play down our strengths to win tonight. Doesn't necessarily all have to be 'up the jumper rugby' we just need to smash em up front.
Need a win tonight otherwise mentally it will be seen as we're further behind than we were at this stage 12 months ago. The Aussies will want this desperately but at least have half an excuse of the the back room shenanigans pre tour with the new coach etc.
DJRC said:
I've had to largely avoid this thread during the series because I knew reading it would just annoy me, but we are at the end and it's an ok time. There is only one reason England lost against NZ and the Boks...basic errors.
Not robotic rugby. Not because of robshaw as Captain. Not because of SBW. Not because of the English midfield, creativity or blah blah blah, but simple basic skills and in isolated incidents at that.
Mike Brown dropping a try scoring ball because he has been working himself back into form (last yr it would have been a simple try) scratched one win.
The only whinge to have validity was picking OF when he wasn't match sharp. That has been a performance impact and arguable that his and Danny C's kicking cost us a match, but again that is a basic skill issue.
I'm not Care's biggest fan, never have been and I've said it fairly often, however, he has been a reasonably consistent high performer over the last two seasons - much like Brown. So in England's 3 key back positions Lancaster had his 3 main men out of form and/or lacking match fitness. His gamble was to play them and get them back into the groove. It's worked for Brown who has performed better each match but it hasn't for OF and Care.
England are a lot lot closer to NZ and the Boks than ppl give them credit for. In a WC on home turd next yr Id back them against the Boks quite easily - actually I think they would blow them away, England's Pack will be superlative by then on this current increment performance increase. The Backs don't need to be special, just competent. Cut the basic errors out and they will be.
NZ? Hmmm. The best for a reason.
On a side note Ireland have been far better than I was expecting, a very interesting wild card for next yr. Their first XV is superb, so they will be praying to the injury Gods!
One reason? Basic errors? England spent most of the second half against NZ cooped up in parts of the pitch where they could do zero harm. That's a collective fault that illustrates an inability to think their way out of basic problems.Not robotic rugby. Not because of robshaw as Captain. Not because of SBW. Not because of the English midfield, creativity or blah blah blah, but simple basic skills and in isolated incidents at that.
Mike Brown dropping a try scoring ball because he has been working himself back into form (last yr it would have been a simple try) scratched one win.
The only whinge to have validity was picking OF when he wasn't match sharp. That has been a performance impact and arguable that his and Danny C's kicking cost us a match, but again that is a basic skill issue.
I'm not Care's biggest fan, never have been and I've said it fairly often, however, he has been a reasonably consistent high performer over the last two seasons - much like Brown. So in England's 3 key back positions Lancaster had his 3 main men out of form and/or lacking match fitness. His gamble was to play them and get them back into the groove. It's worked for Brown who has performed better each match but it hasn't for OF and Care.
England are a lot lot closer to NZ and the Boks than ppl give them credit for. In a WC on home turd next yr Id back them against the Boks quite easily - actually I think they would blow them away, England's Pack will be superlative by then on this current increment performance increase. The Backs don't need to be special, just competent. Cut the basic errors out and they will be.
NZ? Hmmm. The best for a reason.
On a side note Ireland have been far better than I was expecting, a very interesting wild card for next yr. Their first XV is superb, so they will be praying to the injury Gods!
As for the pack, they needed SA to lose a man before making heqdway and then they still conceded a mauled try to a 7 man pack.
Either the coaching is lacking, or the players are unable to translate good coaching into action on the pitch. Neither is a desirable state of affairs. And the game against Samoa, a team thrashed by Italy two weeks beforehand, was woeful in some respects.
I am prepared to acknowledge the possibility that Lancaster knows what he's doing and that it will all come together. But I have the sneaking suspicion that he's simply not good enough.
Oh knock it off Joey. NZ kept England pinned where they wanted because they deployed a superb territory based game and England had Care and OF kicking like numpties. V v simple rugby from NZ in that second half and England didn't have the kicking game to compete because as said our main three game/territory controlling backs were all out of form/match fitness.
The Eng Pack pushed the Bok Pack all over the park when they had the ball. I'm quite happy to admit the Bok Pack also bossed England on their driving mails aswell - they have an equally excellent Pack. The crucial bit is that the English Pack was every bit as good and is getting better, they have been getting better every match for the last yr.
Eng lost the first two games due to basic errors. They don't need a magic bullet midfield, simply a competent one, esp in defence. Brown has played himself back I to some form and May has found his confidence which gives England two superb weapons to use at the right time.
The Eng Pack pushed the Bok Pack all over the park when they had the ball. I'm quite happy to admit the Bok Pack also bossed England on their driving mails aswell - they have an equally excellent Pack. The crucial bit is that the English Pack was every bit as good and is getting better, they have been getting better every match for the last yr.
Eng lost the first two games due to basic errors. They don't need a magic bullet midfield, simply a competent one, esp in defence. Brown has played himself back I to some form and May has found his confidence which gives England two superb weapons to use at the right time.
Billy isn't the answer, he never was. Only those numpties who seemed to think England need creative centres and they were wrong as usual. It's got to be BB as starting for me in the centres and then Eastmond or Manu inside him. I like having Burrel available to mix it up and we shall see how Big Sam does.
BB was f
king monster today, outstanding in defence, 18 tackles and did Cooper beat him just twice? What a strike runner the Aus was today, superb player.
Another mention to Lawes. Outstanding.
BB was f
king monster today, outstanding in defence, 18 tackles and did Cooper beat him just twice? What a strike runner the Aus was today, superb player.Another mention to Lawes. Outstanding.
DJRC said:
Billy isn't the answer, he never was. Only those numpties who seemed to think England need creative centres and they were wrong as usual. It's got to be BB as starting for me in the centres and then Eastmond or Manu inside him. I like having Burrel available to mix it up and we shall see how Big Sam does.
BB was fking monster today, outstanding in defence, 18 tackles and did Cooper beat him just twice? What a strike runner the Aus was today, superb player.
Another mention to Lawes. Outstanding.
You think that was a good performance? It was pretty average, I think. It also signifies nothing. England beat Australia this time last year I seem to remember, and then rocketed backwards over this summer and autumn. Just watching Tindall on TV acknowledging that all is not right.BB was f
king monster today, outstanding in defence, 18 tackles and did Cooper beat him just twice? What a strike runner the Aus was today, superb player.Another mention to Lawes. Outstanding.
The forwards are ok but the back line is quite weak. The England wingers show no directness in their running, and keep dropping the ball. Passing looks fallible. They posed a minimal threat. Conversely, they were outflanked a number of times today by simple moves, AAC made a couple of clean breaks up the middle, and Folau screwed up a pass toward the end that would have led to a certain try. Australia could easily win at Twickenham next year.
It's very simple. England have a very good pack, and adequate backs. SA have a very good pack, and better backs. NZ have a very good pack, and superb backs. Guess, out of those three, which team is in the better position?
Actually it was quite a good performance. Why? Because the defence was superb and that is traditionally what an English backs line has been there for...to defend.
The Aus back line is the best in the game. It has always traditionally been so and is certainly true currently. The AB back line and Bok back line are below the level of the Aussies and have been for some time. Their weakness has been the Packs of recent yrs, indeed Aus tend to be a good team when they manage a Pack that can compete on or at a near equal footing. Their back line *always* is a step ahead of everybody else. Ben and Savea are the only two Kiwis who would get into that Aussie back line.
So yes England have the game to beat every other team upto the Kiwi and Boks and they are only a step behind those two, because this English Pack is developing into a proper old fashioned English weapon...an absolute bd of a monster. Youngs and Ford gave a proper display of control today and it made the structure so much better, gave so much more territory to England gave decent targets for the strike runners to compete.
The best English teams feature monster Packs, controlling driving bds, a half back pairing who control territory and tempo, a back line that defends the line at all costs and one or sometimes two strike runners. England have been dicking around for too long away from their successful template. Lancaster just rediscovered an essential truth.
England are never going to win a WC with their back line. Ever. And it sure as fk isn't entertaining to watch us try and play that way and cocking it up.
The Aus back line is the best in the game. It has always traditionally been so and is certainly true currently. The AB back line and Bok back line are below the level of the Aussies and have been for some time. Their weakness has been the Packs of recent yrs, indeed Aus tend to be a good team when they manage a Pack that can compete on or at a near equal footing. Their back line *always* is a step ahead of everybody else. Ben and Savea are the only two Kiwis who would get into that Aussie back line.
So yes England have the game to beat every other team upto the Kiwi and Boks and they are only a step behind those two, because this English Pack is developing into a proper old fashioned English weapon...an absolute b
d of a monster. Youngs and Ford gave a proper display of control today and it made the structure so much better, gave so much more territory to England gave decent targets for the strike runners to compete. The best English teams feature monster Packs, controlling driving b
ds, a half back pairing who control territory and tempo, a back line that defends the line at all costs and one or sometimes two strike runners. England have been dicking around for too long away from their successful template. Lancaster just rediscovered an essential truth.England are never going to win a WC with their back line. Ever. And it sure as f
k isn't entertaining to watch us try and play that way and cocking it up.First of all well done to Wales!
It was a nervy but much needed victory for England a lot was much better a lot of room for improvement still. We fell of A LOT of tackles last night. Fair enough Skelton is a behemoth and difficult to stop, but the Aussies brought a lot of physicality in the loose and we're winning the collisions. Our lineout wasn't so solid yesterday, but it proves 8 men can win a game against 15..... Morgan was outstanding but the back row has room for improvement still but I feel only through selection.
Wood was a walking penelty last night, Robshaw put in his usual shift but we need another dimension to that back play to compete more at the breakdown IMO. Ford should start the 6N Young kicking was good but passing was awful at times.
We played a more intelligent game last night, basic skills were better if not great, I reckon we'd have won against the saffers with the greater nounce showed in this performance.
Players to come back from injury, a few selection headaches, ex Rugby league players to hopefully come good....
It was a nervy but much needed victory for England a lot was much better a lot of room for improvement still. We fell of A LOT of tackles last night. Fair enough Skelton is a behemoth and difficult to stop, but the Aussies brought a lot of physicality in the loose and we're winning the collisions. Our lineout wasn't so solid yesterday, but it proves 8 men can win a game against 15..... Morgan was outstanding but the back row has room for improvement still but I feel only through selection.
Wood was a walking penelty last night, Robshaw put in his usual shift but we need another dimension to that back play to compete more at the breakdown IMO. Ford should start the 6N Young kicking was good but passing was awful at times.
We played a more intelligent game last night, basic skills were better if not great, I reckon we'd have won against the saffers with the greater nounce showed in this performance.
Players to come back from injury, a few selection headaches, ex Rugby league players to hopefully come good....
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