Rugby Union Autumn Internationals
Discussion
Id agree about the tackles. Our scrambling defence was superb, but we missed a few first up tackles.
Back row could be improved with Armitage and I d agree that Tom Wood has gone off the boil slightly.
Switching to our Welsh comrades...Hornet & Beef, what do you make of your boys? Ive seen almost none of the Welsh action in the last 4 weeks, so where do you think you are?
Back row could be improved with Armitage and I d agree that Tom Wood has gone off the boil slightly.
Switching to our Welsh comrades...Hornet & Beef, what do you make of your boys? Ive seen almost none of the Welsh action in the last 4 weeks, so where do you think you are?
DJRC said:
Id agree about the tackles. Our scrambling defence was superb, but we missed a few first up tackles.
Back row could be improved with Armitage and I d agree that Tom Wood has gone off the boil slightly.
Switching to our Welsh comrades...Hornet & Beef, what do you make of your boys? Ive seen almost none of the Welsh action in the last 4 weeks, so where do you think you are?
My head is ruined today...Back row could be improved with Armitage and I d agree that Tom Wood has gone off the boil slightly.
Switching to our Welsh comrades...Hornet & Beef, what do you make of your boys? Ive seen almost none of the Welsh action in the last 4 weeks, so where do you think you are?
I'm really not sure what happened with the Fiji game we should have ramped away - that needs focus (but we won).
The other three games we pushed the sides really hard came very close.
Were proving depth in many positions which is great.
The 6N should be really good Ireland on Fire England getting better Scotland finding a new Era (France well who knows) Wales for me like a V8 but too often one piston isn't firing
Welshbeef said:
My head is ruined today...
I'm really not sure what happened with the Fiji game we should have ramped away - that needs focus (but we won).
The other three games we pushed the sides really hard came very close.
Were proving depth in many positions which is great.
The 6N should be really good Ireland on Fire England getting better Scotland finding a new Era (France well who knows) Wales for me like a V8 but too often one piston isn't firing
and of course Ireland who arguably came out of this series the most settled and effective team, kicking on from the 6 Nations earlier this year.I'm really not sure what happened with the Fiji game we should have ramped away - that needs focus (but we won).
The other three games we pushed the sides really hard came very close.
Were proving depth in many positions which is great.
The 6N should be really good Ireland on Fire England getting better Scotland finding a new Era (France well who knows) Wales for me like a V8 but too often one piston isn't firing
it's going to be fascinating watching this Feb, then again, when isn't it?!
DJRC said:
Actually it was quite a good performance. Why? Because the defence was superb and that is traditionally what an English backs line has been there for...to defend.
The Aus back line is the best in the game. It has always traditionally been so and is certainly true currently. The AB back line and Bok back line are below the level of the Aussies and have been for some time. Their weakness has been the Packs of recent yrs, indeed Aus tend to be a good team when they manage a Pack that can compete on or at a near equal footing. Their back line *always* is a step ahead of everybody else. Ben and Savea are the only two Kiwis who would get into that Aussie back line.
So yes England have the game to beat every other team upto the Kiwi and Boks and they are only a step behind those two, because this English Pack is developing into a proper old fashioned English weapon...an absolute b
d of a monster. Youngs and Ford gave a proper display of control today and it made the structure so much better, gave so much more territory to England gave decent targets for the strike runners to compete.
The best English teams feature monster Packs, controlling driving bds, a half back pairing who control territory and tempo, a back line that defends the line at all costs and one or sometimes two strike runners. England have been dicking around for too long away from their successful template. Lancaster just rediscovered an essential truth.
England are never going to win a WC with their back line. Ever. And it sure as fk isn't entertaining to watch us try and play that way and cocking it up.
I suspect this is all exactly what you would have said this time last year after we beat up Australia at HQ with a sterling forward performance. And if the World Cup had been this November, we would have been knocked out in the Quarters. As Stephen Jones says, the gulf in rugby class between England and Australia yesterday was brutal. Ford excepted (I rate him very highly indeed) the Australian backs were like a different species. Us simply having a 13 who's good at tackling isn't really good enough.The Aus back line is the best in the game. It has always traditionally been so and is certainly true currently. The AB back line and Bok back line are below the level of the Aussies and have been for some time. Their weakness has been the Packs of recent yrs, indeed Aus tend to be a good team when they manage a Pack that can compete on or at a near equal footing. Their back line *always* is a step ahead of everybody else. Ben and Savea are the only two Kiwis who would get into that Aussie back line.
So yes England have the game to beat every other team upto the Kiwi and Boks and they are only a step behind those two, because this English Pack is developing into a proper old fashioned English weapon...an absolute b
d of a monster. Youngs and Ford gave a proper display of control today and it made the structure so much better, gave so much more territory to England gave decent targets for the strike runners to compete. The best English teams feature monster Packs, controlling driving b
ds, a half back pairing who control territory and tempo, a back line that defends the line at all costs and one or sometimes two strike runners. England have been dicking around for too long away from their successful template. Lancaster just rediscovered an essential truth.England are never going to win a WC with their back line. Ever. And it sure as f
k isn't entertaining to watch us try and play that way and cocking it up.You keep going on about this monster pack, but it's not an order of magnitude better than its rivals. The Aussie pack was weak but they still made good yardage yesterday and allowed their backs to pretty much have the freedom of Twickenham. England got outflanked or carved up so many times it was scary. And while Lawes was superb, like many other England forwards he blows hot and cold. Outstanding one week, anonymous the next. Same as Vunipola, Wood, Atwood, Hartley.
As for 10 man rugby? In 2003, playing against a team with a plasticine scrum, England still had to go to the wire in order to win. And that was with a superb number 9, the best game manager in the game at 10, the best inside centre this country has ever had, two absolutely world class wingers and one of the best full backs to grace the game. All of whom had played together umpteen times,and knew each other inside out. The lesson is that England often find it very difficult to translate forward superiority into a proper game winning margin.
Oh, and Wales were great value for their win. Folau was superb, as was Halfpenny, and Biggar was immense. He was everywhere, a proper Superman performance in terms of defence especially. I thought Scott Williams had properly fked it at the end but thank God his team mates dug him out of a hole.
ked it at the end but thank God his team mates dug him out of a hole.prand said:
and of course Ireland who arguably came out of this series the most settled and effective team, kicking on from the 6 Nations earlier this year.
it's going to be fascinating watching this Feb, then again, when isn't it?!
Spot on. it's going to be fascinating watching this Feb, then again, when isn't it?!
Looking forward to Eng v Wales (shame its a Friday night don't get the logic of that)
6 nations should be a real spectacle next year. Ireland showed there is life after bod and Walescsn mix it on home soil wirh the best! England, well, when our first picks are there we should do well. But I worried about our strength in depth amongst the back! Ford seems to be a find but twelvetress underwhelmed me as did farrel again. We can't rely on manu all the time...can morgan place centre? 
think he might be the new Richard Hill. Apart from wrong position of course..
think he might be the new Richard Hill. Apart from wrong position of course..6 nations should be a real spectacle next year. Ireland showed there is life after bod and Walescsn mix it on home soil wirh the best! England, well, when our first picks are there we should do well. But I worried about our strength in depth amongst the back! Ford seems to be a find but twelvetress underwhelmed me as did farrel again. We can't rely on manu all the time...can morgan place centre? think he might be the new Richard Hill. Apart from wrong position of course..
think he might be the new Richard Hill. Apart from wrong position of course..Road2Ruin said:
6 nations should be a real spectacle next year. Ireland showed there is life after bod and Walescsn mix it on home soil wirh the best! England, well, when our first picks are there we should do well. But I worried about our strength in depth amongst the back! Ford seems to be a find but twelvetress underwhelmed me as did farrel again. We can't rely on manu all the time...can morgan place centre? think he might be the new Richard Hill. Apart from wrong position of course..
You can say that again think he might be the new Richard Hill. Apart from wrong position of course..Joey Ramone said:
I suspect this is all exactly what you would have said this time last year after we beat up Australia at HQ with a sterling forward performance. And if the World Cup had been this November, we would have been knocked out in the Quarters. As Stephen Jones says, the gulf in rugby class between England and Australia yesterday was brutal. Ford excepted (I rate him very highly indeed) the Australian backs were like a different species. Us simply having a 13 who's good at tackling isn't really good enough.
You keep going on about this monster pack, but it's not an order of magnitude better than its rivals. The Aussie pack was weak but they still made good yardage yesterday and allowed their backs to pretty much have the freedom of Twickenham. England got outflanked or carved up so many times it was scary. And while Lawes was superb, like many other England forwards he blows hot and cold. Outstanding one week, anonymous the next. Same as Vunipola, Wood, Atwood, Hartley.
As for 10 man rugby? In 2003, playing against a team with a plasticine scrum, England still had to go to the wire in order to win. And that was with a superb number 9, the best game manager in the game at 10, the best inside centre this country has ever had, two absolutely world class wingers and one of the best full backs to grace the game. All of whom had played together umpteen times,and knew each other inside out. The lesson is that England often find it very difficult to translate forward superiority into a proper game winning margin.
Why do you bother to argue with someone with Tourette's , who is plainly angrier than Animal from the Muppets.You keep going on about this monster pack, but it's not an order of magnitude better than its rivals. The Aussie pack was weak but they still made good yardage yesterday and allowed their backs to pretty much have the freedom of Twickenham. England got outflanked or carved up so many times it was scary. And while Lawes was superb, like many other England forwards he blows hot and cold. Outstanding one week, anonymous the next. Same as Vunipola, Wood, Atwood, Hartley.
As for 10 man rugby? In 2003, playing against a team with a plasticine scrum, England still had to go to the wire in order to win. And that was with a superb number 9, the best game manager in the game at 10, the best inside centre this country has ever had, two absolutely world class wingers and one of the best full backs to grace the game. All of whom had played together umpteen times,and knew each other inside out. The lesson is that England often find it very difficult to translate forward superiority into a proper game winning margin.
Talks loudly Says nothing....could apply....but rather than dismiss its purple faced rants, I respect it has an opinion.
It will never apply the same logic to you or I of course....
steveT350C said:
Need to watch game again but I think 36 missed a least two vital tackles.
glad it's not just me thought this... I think that his defense if merely 'ok' and, IMO, he never really convinces. Fair enough he's there to try and bring the backline to life but he's not too good at that either to be honest - I've really wanted him to be the answer but IMO he shouldn't be allowed near an England slot again. BB is amazing - must have a head made of concrete given the damage we saw him take yesterday but again it's pointless having two (VERY) quick wings if they don't see the fking ball!!! That being said - despite Ashton's faults (and he has many) he does go looking for work which our current two do not seem to do 
As things stand I'm actually a little more nervous about the RWC than I was before the Oz match - I know we won, but it was far from a convincing display.
Positives - the pack functioned well to the point I'm not sure we're missing Corbs and Cole as much as we thought we might (which has to be good news for strength in depth!). Morgan seems to be continuing to progress. Ford! Light-years ahead of Faz (who TBF seems to be ice cool when it comes to kicking points to be fair but really acts like a cock way too regularly). May has learned that running sideways ain't good!
Negatives.... PENALTIES!! Faz, 36, BB (defensively a lion but not exactly an asset for a free flowing game)
irocfan said:
steveT350C said:
Need to watch game again but I think 36 missed a least two vital tackles.
glad it's not just me thought this... I think that his defense if merely 'ok' and, IMO, he never really convinces. Fair enough he's there to try and bring the backline to life but he's not too good at that either to be honest - I've really wanted him to be the answer but IMO he shouldn't be allowed near an England slot again. BB is amazing - must have a head made of concrete given the damage we saw him take yesterday but again it's pointless having two (VERY) quick wings if they don't see the fking ball!!! That being said - despite Ashton's faults (and he has many) he does go looking for work which our current two do not seem to do As things stand I'm actually a little more nervous about the RWC than I was before the Oz match - I know we won, but it was far from a convincing display.
Positives - the pack functioned well to the point I'm not sure we're missing Corbs and Cole as much as we thought we might (which has to be good news for strength in depth!). Morgan seems to be continuing to progress. Ford! Light-years ahead of Faz (who TBF seems to be ice cool when it comes to kicking points to be fair but really acts like a cock way too regularly). May has learned that running sideways ain't good!
Negatives.... PENALTIES!! Faz, 36, BB (defensively a lion but not exactly an asset for a free flowing game)
I have watched the match again, focussing on Oz attacks and where they broke our line.
36 seems to follow the ball too much and gets sucked into rucks, leaving the fast Oz backs such as Hooke to skip through a couple of less mobile English forwards.
Joey Ramone said:
DJRC said:
Actually it was quite a good performance. Why? Because the defence was superb and that is traditionally what an English backs line has been there for...to defend.
The Aus back line is the best in the game. It has always traditionally been so and is certainly true currently. The AB back line and Bok back line are below the level of the Aussies and have been for some time. Their weakness has been the Packs of recent yrs, indeed Aus tend to be a good team when they manage a Pack that can compete on or at a near equal footing. Their back line *always* is a step ahead of everybody else. Ben and Savea are the only two Kiwis who would get into that Aussie back line.
So yes England have the game to beat every other team upto the Kiwi and Boks and they are only a step behind those two, because this English Pack is developing into a proper old fashioned English weapon...an absolute bd of a monster. Youngs and Ford gave a proper display of control today and it made the structure so much better, gave so much more territory to England gave decent targets for the strike runners to compete.
The best English teams feature monster Packs, controlling driving bds, a half back pairing who control territory and tempo, a back line that defends the line at all costs and one or sometimes two strike runners. England have been dicking around for too long away from their successful template. Lancaster just rediscovered an essential truth.
England are never going to win a WC with their back line. Ever. And it sure as fk isn't entertaining to watch us try and play that way and cocking it up.
I suspect this is all exactly what you would have said this time last year after we beat up Australia at HQ with a sterling forward performance. And if the World Cup had been this November, we would have been knocked out in the Quarters. As Stephen Jones says, the gulf in rugby class between England and Australia yesterday was brutal. Ford excepted (I rate him very highly indeed) the Australian backs were like a different species. Us simply having a 13 who's good at tackling isn't really good enough.The Aus back line is the best in the game. It has always traditionally been so and is certainly true currently. The AB back line and Bok back line are below the level of the Aussies and have been for some time. Their weakness has been the Packs of recent yrs, indeed Aus tend to be a good team when they manage a Pack that can compete on or at a near equal footing. Their back line *always* is a step ahead of everybody else. Ben and Savea are the only two Kiwis who would get into that Aussie back line.
So yes England have the game to beat every other team upto the Kiwi and Boks and they are only a step behind those two, because this English Pack is developing into a proper old fashioned English weapon...an absolute b
d of a monster. Youngs and Ford gave a proper display of control today and it made the structure so much better, gave so much more territory to England gave decent targets for the strike runners to compete. The best English teams feature monster Packs, controlling driving b
ds, a half back pairing who control territory and tempo, a back line that defends the line at all costs and one or sometimes two strike runners. England have been dicking around for too long away from their successful template. Lancaster just rediscovered an essential truth.England are never going to win a WC with their back line. Ever. And it sure as f
k isn't entertaining to watch us try and play that way and cocking it up.You keep going on about this monster pack, but it's not an order of magnitude better than its rivals. The Aussie pack was weak but they still made good yardage yesterday and allowed their backs to pretty much have the freedom of Twickenham. England got outflanked or carved up so many times it was scary. And while Lawes was superb, like many other England forwards he blows hot and cold. Outstanding one week, anonymous the next. Same as Vunipola, Wood, Atwood, Hartley.
As for 10 man rugby? In 2003, playing against a team with a plasticine scrum, England still had to go to the wire in order to win. And that was with a superb number 9, the best game manager in the game at 10, the best inside centre this country has ever had, two absolutely world class wingers and one of the best full backs to grace the game. All of whom had played together umpteen times,and knew each other inside out. The lesson is that England often find it very difficult to translate forward superiority into a proper game winning margin.
Simples.
Welshbeef said:
Cut back on my drinking... 2 kids mean change if lifestyle
Did you actually make the game? Haven't found or spoken to anyone that did yet as the atmosphere in the second half and especially the last quarter looked great!Turned down a pair hoping to go to Twickenham and ended up in front of the TV....
o/t
amusingly enough Will Skelton the monster Aussie lock has a younger and BIGGER brother - don't know what they feed those boys!!
http://www.espn.co.uk/super-rugby-2014/rugby/story...
amusingly enough Will Skelton the monster Aussie lock has a younger and BIGGER brother - don't know what they feed those boys!!
http://www.espn.co.uk/super-rugby-2014/rugby/story...
Slaav said:
Did you actually make the game? Haven't found or spoken to anyone that did yet as the atmosphere in the second half and especially the last quarter looked great!
Turned down a pair hoping to go to Twickenham and ended up in front of the TV....
Sadly two young kids 12 weeks and nearly 3 years means going to games is pretty much a show stopper for now. Turned down a pair hoping to go to Twickenham and ended up in front of the TV....
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