Hartley again

[Derek Smith]

He's done it again. Not so bad as eye gouging or biting but good as he is, should he be kicked out of the England squad?

Let's keep Smith's response for another thread.

Just looking at it again and it is clear that Hartley knew precisely where Smith was and it must have been a deliberate act. The ref tried to bottle it I thought.

Well done for the victory with 14 men for so long.

[Matt172]

I'm not condoning what Hartley did, he shouldn't have lashed out and yet again he has let his club down. But Smith's theatrical dive backwards a couple of seconds after he was hit was pretty poor sportsmanship.

I didn't think JP bottled anything with his first decision of yellow, he watched the reply and made a decision from that. Is this the way the sport is going that a TMO can overrule a refs decision? I also don't think things like that should be shown to the ref in slow motion, in fact I think JP refused to watch it again in slow mo when the tmo questioned the yellow

Fantastic win though to play 60+ mins with 14 men...who the hell are Leicester tigers?!

Should Harley get kicked from England for a red card, I don't think so. Will he get the maximum ban for the offence because he's Hartley....more than likely

Edited by Matt172 on Sunday 21st December 15:48

[Derek Smith]

Matt172 said:

I'm not condoning what Hartley did, he shouldn't have lashed out and yet again he has let his club down. But Smith's theatrical dive backwards a couple of seconds after he was hit was pretty poor sportsmanship.

I didn't think JP bottled anything with his first decision of yellow, he watched the reply and made a decision from that. Is this the way the sport is going that a TMO can overrule a refs decision? I also don't think things like that should be shown to the ref in slow motion, in fact I think JP refused to watch it again in slow mo when the tmo questioned the yellow

Fantastic win though to play 60+ mins with 14 men...who the hell are Leicester tigers?!

Should Harley get kicked from England for a red card, I don't think so. Will he get the maximum ban for the offence because he's Hartley....more than likely

Edited by Matt172 on Sunday 21st December 15:48

If an England hooker gets carded half way through the first half then we will struggle to beat anyone. I didn't mean the moral aspect but whether we can afford to have a loose canon. Refs will be aware of who he is and keep an eye on him. There will be no 'benefit of the doubt.'

The TMO merely advised the ref to view the video. If he'd seen the full incident then it was his decision, if he didn't then he should seek the help of the video.

Let's leave Smith's behaviour out of it. It'll only confuse matters.

[Matt172]

Derek Smith said:

If an England hooker gets carded half way through the first half then we will struggle to beat anyone. I didn't mean the moral aspect but whether we can afford to have a loose canon. Refs will be aware of who he is and keep an eye on him. There will be no 'benefit of the doubt.'

The TMO merely advised the ref to view the video. If he'd seen the full incident then it was his decision, if he didn't then he should seek the help of the video.

Let's leave Smith's behaviour out of it. It'll only confuse matters.

The loose cannon thing is the problem, Hartley will always get targeted because people know he will react, it's disappointing as a saints supporter that we have to continue to have great games marred by players who over react to things. I though he might have grown up a bit now, if he has ruined his England chances it's no ones fault but his own

What I meant was that JP had already watched the full incident on the screen and had made his decision that it was foul play and deemed it to be a yellow. The TMO then asked him to watch it again as he felt it was more than that.

I think how Smith reacted made it look worse than it was and I would imagine that will be something that will be discussed in any tribunal...it's not the first time that a saints player has been given a red based on the acting of the other player (mark regan v mark Robison) and I think regan got banned after he admitted he played up to the ref to get sharky sent off.

JP however did bottle it by not penalising the Tigers player for playing the ball off his feet, which started the first round of fisty cuffs. If the penatly had been given there the whole thing would never have happened

[albundy89]

Thats the crux of the matter indiscipline,you cant afford that at world cup level.

[Derek Smith]

Matt172 said:

The loose cannon thing is the problem, Hartley will always get targeted because people know he will react, it's disappointing as a saints supporter that we have to continue to have great games marred by players who over react to things. I though he might have grown up a bit now, if he has ruined his England chances it's no ones fault but his own

What I meant was that JP had already watched the full incident on the screen and had made his decision that it was foul play and deemed it to be a yellow. The TMO then asked him to watch it again as he felt it was more than that.

I think how Smith reacted made it look worse than it was and I would imagine that will be something that will be discussed in any tribunal...it's not the first time that a saints player has been given a red based on the acting of the other player (mark regan v mark Robison) and I think regan got banned after he admitted he played up to the ref to get sharky sent off.

JP however did bottle it by not penalising the Tigers player for playing the ball off his feet, which started the first round of fisty cuffs. If the penatly had been given there the whole thing would never have happened

I agree about the play acting.

I'm not a big fan of JP but then again, he's better than at the level my club play.

[9mm]

Hartley is the sort of player who will lose you a vital match through a moment's indiscipline at a critical moment. He also appears to possess the mentality of a thug. I don't want him playing for England.

[Derek Smith]

9mm said:

Hartley is the sort of player who will lose you a vital match through a moment's indiscipline at a critical moment. He also appears to possess the mentality of a thug. I don't want him playing for England.

We had a hooker whom every other team in the league knew spent his time on the pitch ticking loudly. He was a lovely bloke off it, even being able to talk and such, but on the pitch he wore red glasses. He was a quality player, certainly the best hooker I've known at club level, but a liability. He was double yellowed a few times.

A little bit of sledging and he'd be off. You just couldn't get through to him that he was at fault.

[Matt172]

3 weeks then for Hartley

[hornetrider]

Matt172 said:

3 weeks then for Hartley

What a fking joke for a scumbag with a massive fking phonebook of a casefile of previous. Completely predictable however as he obviously brought custard creams to the disciplinary and requested a nice bit of r and r in the run up to the 6N.

Self serving s. Rant over.

[fttm]

Hartley is a grade one who has exceeded his own expectations/luck in getting a career/paycheck this good for so long , cut him loose and move on .

Edited by fttm on Sunday 28th December 03:43

[BraveSirRobin]

9mm said:

Hartley is the sort of player who will lose you a vital match through a moment's indiscipline at a critical moment. He also appears to possess the mentality of a thug. I don't want him playing for England.

One of the obvious ways England can improve is to cut out the daft penalties. Hartley seems to be responsible for more than his fair share.