6 Nations 2015

Author
Discussion

a311

Original Poster:

5,789 posts

176 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Lets not get too carried away chaps I say.

We're a side dogged by injuries short on caps with several question marks on selection still and today we showed it. We were up against a well drilled and experienced side who had an effective game plan and stuck to it (oh yeah and they were at home). Ultimately in terms of potential I truly believe this current crop of England players has a higher ceiling than Ireland.

I thought the game was quite bizarre, I know England were bad but I can't really decide if Ireland were good, just less bad or quite poor?! Defensively Ireland were very strong, their line speed was very good not giving the English play makers much time and bossed the breakdown, ball in hand I don't feel they're enough of a threat. A marginal increase in decision making, and discipline and it could have been a win despite a ste performance.

Our lineout rocked and was close to imploding, when it's been a source of assurance in the recent past. If Hartley isn't hitting >95% of his throws he doesn't bring a lot else to the party IMO.

First game for a long time I can attribute Robshaw with some individual errors, therefore his worst game for a long time in an England shirt. I'm a bit disappointed as Haskell hasn't pushed on from that Wales game (this has happened before more than once), but ultimately it was a team failure today. I thought Billy V was decent today but needs to do a bit more at the breakdown when required. Tom Wood isn't the answer but reckon he'll come back in. Lack of grunt and intensity form the forwards today IMO, Attwood had his worst game in his short test career to date.

Goode, I think wasn't as bad as people are making out but he's not someone I want even as #2 cover at FB. Could have prevented the try but found him generally composed. Burrell I don't find he's international class and ever will be.

YOUNGS IS ABSOLUTE DOG stE. Show me an international 9 that doesn't look good when his pack are on the front foot? I don't think Wigglesworth is a good bench 9 but does all the basics you want in a 9 well.

Overall I'm mostly frustrated by the lack of game plan and the resistance from the players and coaching staff to make tactical changes. WTF was the kicking strategy on re-starts and in general?! Cipriani should have came on at the 60 min mark max, I'll eat my own knackers though if Fazzlet doesn't saunter straight back in at Cips expense once fit again.


DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Two plus 1s there.

Bit irritated by the commentators. They seem to resent the fact that the games is fun to watch.
Red button > Referee's mic

The only way to watch a match...

Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Joey Ramone said:
Said it before and will say it again.England are not a thinking team. They can't adapt their thinking on the hoof and they can't stop giving penalties WHEN NOT UNDER PRESSURE. And we still have no decent 12 to take the pressure off a young 10.

Anyway, good on Ireland. Well deserved and a real team effort. Sexton is a class act. And Ford will be too, for a long time to come.
Agreed but Johnson would have taken control as Captain, they are seriously lacking a 'leader'. The decision. To kick to touch in first half was bizarre.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Twelvetrees and Nowell - fk me they were bad. And I mean absolutely dreadful. What were England thinking?

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
just finished watching it and TBH we were never really at the races. Our kick chase wasn't appalling as that would've been an improvement on what we actually had! frown


  1. 15 - saved on try really well and a couple of decent kicks but other than that Izno must've thought he was part crab, never again in an England shirt please.
  2. 14 - did he even touch the ball more than 4 times?
  3. 13 - JJ didn't do a whole lot today
  4. 12 - I do like LB but it doesn't seem like he's kicked on from last year, and seems to be a little slow of thought, if Manu gets his fitness back he's got to missing out and learning more
  5. 11 - one or two nice touches but largely as ineffective as May
  6. 10 - has he had a poorer game for England
  7. 9 - not the best game he's had, has DC's form meant BY feels he can take his foot off the gas?
At this rate I can see France beating us and the Scots causing us scary moments!

Very poor.


Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Symbolica said:
Twelvetrees and Nowell - fk me they were bad. And I mean absolutely dreadful. What were England thinking?
Nowell is like an excitable puppy and not in a good way.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Matt_N said:
Nowell is like an excitable puppy and not in a good way.
He made May look world class in comparison. I mean at least May sprints his bks off on kick offs or box kicks. Nowell barely broke into a jog!

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
If I was an Ireland fan I'm not sure if I'd be excited.

It's a pretty awful style of rugby they are playing and I can't see it winning them much in the grand scheme of things. Is that really going to worry South Africa or the AB's when it comes to world cup time?

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
London424 said:
If I was an Ireland fan I'm not sure if I'd be excited.

It's a pretty awful style of rugby they are playing and I can't see it winning them much in the grand scheme of things. Is that really going to worry South Africa or the AB's when it comes to world cup time?
I guess it's going to be interesting watching Ireland/Wales if they play the same game they played against both England and France I can see the Taffs doing a number on them

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
London424 said:
If I was an Ireland fan I'm not sure if I'd be excited.

It's a pretty awful style of rugby they are playing and I can't see it winning them much in the grand scheme of things. Is that really going to worry South Africa or the AB's when it comes to world cup time?
Well the Irish have beaten both South Africa and Australia in the last 6 months, so I don't think they are too worried about the style of rugby they are playing. England won the world cup with 10 men remember.

I'd be more worried if I was an England fan. Beat a Welsh side who were garbage on the day, then rolled over the Italians(!) and everyone is talking about them being the second coming. Brought back down to earth with a bump this weekend.

Very much a work in progress, but you do have the resources to improve.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Well the Irish have beaten both South Africa and Australia in the last 6 months, so I don't think they are too worried about the style of rugby they are playing. England won the world cup with 10 men remember.

I'd be more worried if I was an England fan. Beat a Welsh side who were garbage on the day, then rolled over the Italians(!) and everyone is talking about them being the second coming. Brought back down to earth with a bump this weekend.

Very much a work in progress, but you do have the resources to improve.
I agree - England have had one decent half in the whole championship. They were pretty crap in the first half against Wales.

Some of the Irish kicking was very good, but if they do that against NZ they will get cut to ribbons - it's suicide giving them ball in broken play.

England need to accept where they are and go back to 10 man Rugby and bore the world to death. There's only a few games left before the world cup and they aren't going to learn how to pass in that short space of time

spikeyhead

17,222 posts

196 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
Whilst I wasn't happy with the display our backs put on, I was more concerned with the lack of display from the pack, and even more disappointed with our tactics of trying to beat the Irish in a kicking game.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
London424 said:
If I was an Ireland fan I'm not sure if I'd be excited.

It's a pretty awful style of rugby they are playing and I can't see it winning them much in the grand scheme of things. Is that really going to worry South Africa or the AB's when it comes to world cup time?
Well the Irish have beaten both South Africa and Australia in the last 6 months, so I don't think they are too worried about the style of rugby they are playing. England won the world cup with 10 men remember.

I'd be more worried if I was an England fan. Beat a Welsh side who were garbage on the day, then rolled over the Italians(!) and everyone is talking about them being the second coming. Brought back down to earth with a bump this weekend.

Very much a work in progress, but you do have the resources to improve.
I've said it before but the World cup is a year too soon for England. I think the direction is fine, but need experience. I mean none of the backs have double digit caps. But at home you never know what could happen.

I just thought the Irish style of play was very one dimensional and as another poster has said, I wouldn't be surprised if Wales roll them over. Halfpenny is very strong under the high ball.


XCP

16,875 posts

227 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
A frustrating day for an England fan. Well done to the Irish though, they certainly stepped up and made the England scrum look very average. Very few scrums in the game I thought. Anyway, well done to the Micks, they had a plan and it worked.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
London424 said:
If I was an Ireland fan I'm not sure if I'd be excited.

It's a pretty awful style of rugby they are playing and I can't see it winning them much in the grand scheme of things. Is that really going to worry South Africa or the AB's when it comes to world cup time?
They were playing to orders, and better ones than the English. The 6N is not about playing attractive rugby, only winning so there's no criticism of their style. Astute play from them. We had no reply. We did essentially the same, playing to a plan, one that was not so effective.

I've got little doubt that, if they do the same against Wales, they've cracked it. Their only worry is overconfidence. It's hurt them in the past.

Well played the Irish.


irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
I know it's the 13man code - but fk me this is some touch of skill!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/31694225

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Monday 2nd March 2015
quotequote all
irocfan said:
I know it's the 13man code - but fk me this is some touch of skill!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/31694225
That fake offload was superb. Sold me.

Potatoes

3,572 posts

169 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2015
quotequote all
[objective hat on]

Pre-game, I expected the England scrum to be dominant and Ireland managed to control that piece well...

If we're completely objective there are not many other parts of the game that Sunday's England (scratch) side can beat Ireland at; lineouts, defense, attack, kicking, positioning, rucking, mauling, turn-over, intensity/aggression and on-field leadership are areas of the game that Ireland are much stronger at than Sunday's England team.

Plus if you look at the off-field leadership, Stuart Lancaster is great but Joe Schmidt is one of the best coaches in modern rugby and leading the way with many of his defensive and attacking strategies.

The one area I thought England could do some damage was from their unpredictable attack caused by the lack of cohesion in their current squad and some of their players' natural attacking ability... but Ireland's defense closed down any wide ball's with their defensive strategy which put Sexton in Ford's face so quickly, closing down his options and the rest of the defensive line following suit.

Ireland were made to look by their intensity in defense... and to be honest by England's lack of intensity in defense, but it was not a brilliant display by Ireland in attack, they made too many mistakes for this level of rugby. England should not be too disheartened though; it was clearly a scratch squad with players who are great in the Premiership but cannot live with the vastly superior overall intensity of a test match... for example; Goode, Burrell, Haskell & Twelvetrees.

I worry for Ireland against Wales... I can see Wales turning them over as Ireland get complacent and Wales actually play to their ability. That should be a corker of a game.

[/objective hat on]



tgr

1,129 posts

170 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Ireland played exactly how they needed to to get past England. They should beat Wales, who have only one way to play.

England's usually excellent forward game was disappointing. Ireland bested them in every department, which is unusual but England's penalty count which has been the object of a lot of comment, came because of the Irish pressure, these were not unforced errors. England's back row has been shown up by a better outfit. That the lineout fell apart will also be a worry.

The Irish kick and chase game was spot on and benefits from the Gaelic football experience of some of the players. England's backs were mediocre.

Lancaster has done many things right but the backs are sub-standard. He has dithered with too many combinations (partly forced by injury, but also his own indicisiveness). The centres are a real problem. Twelvetrees does not belong in this company. Arguably neither does Burrell. Ford must stay, the backs look immediately more threatening with a proper 10, not a converted centre like Farrell.

Nowell cannot make it at this level. May needs to back himself and stop running sideways. Defensively he needs to improve several notches.

Youngs is nothing special and our other scrum halves are I think worse. So all in all the backs lack quality in practically every facet bar defence, which is largely a system.

Lancaster has run out of time. He should have settled on the squad some time ago and got some experienced combinations going. Now he has a squad dangerously light on experience

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
irocfan said:
just finished watching it and TBH we were never really at the races. Our kick chase wasn't appalling as that would've been an improvement on what we actually had! frown


  1. 15 - saved on try really well and a couple of decent kicks but other than that Izno must've thought he was part crab, never again in an England shirt please.
  2. 14 - did he even touch the ball more than 4 times?
  3. 13 - JJ didn't do a whole lot today
  4. 12 - I do like LB but it doesn't seem like he's kicked on from last year, and seems to be a little slow of thought, if Manu gets his fitness back he's got to missing out and learning more
  5. 11 - one or two nice touches but largely as ineffective as May
  6. 10 - has he had a poorer game for England
  7. 9 - not the best game he's had, has DC's form meant BY feels he can take his foot off the gas?
At this rate I can see France beating us and the Scots causing us scary moments!

Very poor.
But I think we can agree they were much better against wales. So lets call it a poor game and move on, rather than hand wringing that we're doomed and thinking it will never change...