The Golf Thread - 2015

[ManFromDelmonte]

Looking at Facebook it looks like, for the first time, a major manufacturer has just refused to supply equipment for Mark Crossfield to review. Speculation is that it's Nike after the less than stellar numbers he got out of the new Vapor drivers.

Whoever it is, I can't help feeling they are making a mistake.

[dxbtiger]

Rosscow said:

Thanks guys. All of these putters look lovely - however where can I see them, try them, and get fitted for them, in the UK? I do actually want to be able to use it to play golf with!

Do you know which style you like or suits you?

Plenty of places in England should have a SAM lab or equivalent, then it would just be a case of settling on head shape, loft, lie, length etc based on those results and then reaching out to one of the custom guys with what you are after.

Material will be a personal choice based on look feel and then you can add any custom stamps, paint etc.

All the guys linked will be able to offer their advice if you aren't sure what you need, I'd start with Byron and specifically Steve at Byron (rather than Dave) and go from there once you've settled on what type of putter you want.

[dxbtiger]

ManFromDelmonte said:

Looking at Facebook it looks like, for the first time, a major manufacturer has just refused to supply equipment for Mark Crossfield to review. Speculation is that it's Nike after the less than stellar numbers he got out of the new Vapor drivers.

Whoever it is, I can't help feeling they are making a mistake.

I must be the only person I know who plays golf who can't stand this guy, don't understand where his following comes from!

[ManFromDelmonte]

dxbtiger said:

ManFromDelmonte said:

Looking at Facebook it looks like, for the first time, a major manufacturer has just refused to supply equipment for Mark Crossfield to review. Speculation is that it's Nike after the less than stellar numbers he got out of the new Vapor drivers.

Whoever it is, I can't help feeling they are making a mistake.

I must be the only person I know who plays golf who can't stand this guy, don't understand where his following comes from!

I guess you either like his style or you don't but I would argue his videos are some of the most useful available on YouTube. His course Vlogs are very entertaining too, assuming again, that you don't find him and/or his playing partners particularly irritating.

[boxsey]

dxbtiger said:

I must be the only person I know who plays golf who can't stand this guy, don't understand where his following comes from!

I knew nothing about him until Manfromdelmonte mentioned him above. Just watched a few of his review videos and found them quite informative. I see that there's a lot of on course stuff, including many of the courses I play on holiday so will watch a few of those next. It looks like he's putting a lot of time and effort into his YT channel and I guess it must be paying off for him.

[dxbtiger]

ManFromDelmonte said:

dxbtiger said:

ManFromDelmonte said:

Looking at Facebook it looks like, for the first time, a major manufacturer has just refused to supply equipment for Mark Crossfield to review. Speculation is that it's Nike after the less than stellar numbers he got out of the new Vapor drivers.

Whoever it is, I can't help feeling they are making a mistake.

I must be the only person I know who plays golf who can't stand this guy, don't understand where his following comes from!

I guess you either like his style or you don't but I would argue his videos are some of the most useful available on YouTube. His course Vlogs are very entertaining too, assuming again, that you don't find him and/or his playing partners particularly irritating.

I watched about 3 minutes of the one he shot at the Belfry (I think it was there) and had to turn it off.

Guess I just don't like his style, I can see why people would want watch for unbiased reviews he just grates on me, I did watch the 3 reviews of the Vapor Drivers yesterday to see what the fuss is about the issue mentioned above, saw a few errors in them.

I personally wouldn't use them to help me pick a club, I loved the Vapor line and have had either the Speed or Pro in my bag since the beginning of October.

[Rosscow]

dxbtiger said:

I watched about 3 minutes of the one he shot at the Belfry (I think it was there) and had to turn it off.

Guess I just don't like his style, I can see why people would want watch for unbiased reviews he just grates on me, I did watch the 3 reviews of the Vapor Drivers yesterday to see what the fuss is about the issue mentioned above, saw a few errors in them.

I personally wouldn't use them to help me pick a club, I loved the Vapor line and have had either the Speed or Pro in my bag since the beginning of October.

I find this quite interesting.

Why wouldn't you use an unbiased review to help select a club?

Surely a bunch of clubs swung by the same guy under the same conditions using a launch monitor to give accurate numbers relating to ball speed, launch angle, spin RPM etc, is useful?

Obviously I'd still try different clubs but if I was torn between 2 drivers and I knew one gave better numbers than the other then that would help me with my decision.

Obviously you really want to try the clubs with a launch monitor yourself but it's always nice to have another opinion.

[dxbtiger]

Rosscow said:

I find this quite interesting.

Why wouldn't you use an unbiased review to help select a club?

Surely a bunch of clubs swung by the same guy under the same conditions using a launch monitor to give accurate numbers relating to ball speed, launch angle, spin RPM etc, is useful?

Obviously I'd still try different clubs but if I was torn between 2 drivers and I knew one gave better numbers than the other then that would help me with my decision.

Obviously you really want to try the clubs with a launch monitor yourself but it's always nice to have another opinion.

His numbers are useful to him not me is the way I look at it.

If I was ever torn between two clubs (it has never happened) based purely on numbers then I would choose easily based on feel, look sound etc. The feel and sound would have already made the decision for me hence not ever being torn.

EG - TM Drivers (R15 aside, that's much improved) recently have been far too loud for my liking. Another example is the G30 driver, it's too noisy (the 3 wood is awesome though). The demoed the original square headed Callaway driver when it came out, it was an absolute monster apart from the fact that when I middled one, it hurt my right ear drum!

I am very much a feel golfer also, I choose the driver shaft I am using now purely based on feel and flight, there wasn't a trackman involved, I'm not chasing distance at all, Driver COR has been maxed for years.

My iron shafts are probably a little stiff for me, however back to back same day they felt better than the less stiff ones, dispersion difference on the trackman that was there when I ordered them was negligible so I choose the ones that felt better, I know I won't lose them if I really go after it as well now (that's probably more in my head )

I do love the technology side of golf, all the data you can gather these days and science (marketing?!) that goes into it, I am also quite prepared to ignore all of it and go with what feels best, sounds arse about face now I've written it down!

[DuncanM]

dxbtiger said:

Rosscow said:

I find this quite interesting.

Why wouldn't you use an unbiased review to help select a club?

Surely a bunch of clubs swung by the same guy under the same conditions using a launch monitor to give accurate numbers relating to ball speed, launch angle, spin RPM etc, is useful?

Obviously I'd still try different clubs but if I was torn between 2 drivers and I knew one gave better numbers than the other then that would help me with my decision.

Obviously you really want to try the clubs with a launch monitor yourself but it's always nice to have another opinion.

His numbers are useful to him not me is the way I look at it.

If I was ever torn between two clubs (it has never happened) based purely on numbers then I would choose easily based on feel, look sound etc. The feel and sound would have already made the decision for me hence not ever being torn.

EG - TM Drivers (R15 aside, that's much improved) recently have been far too loud for my liking. Another example is the G30 driver, it's too noisy (the 3 wood is awesome though). The demoed the original square headed Callaway driver when it came out, it was an absolute monster apart from the fact that when I middled one, it hurt my right ear drum!

I am very much a feel golfer also, I choose the driver shaft I am using now purely based on feel and flight, there wasn't a trackman involved, I'm not chasing distance at all, Driver COR has been maxed for years.

My iron shafts are probably a little stiff for me, however back to back same day they felt better than the less stiff ones, dispersion difference on the trackman that was there when I ordered them was negligible so I choose the ones that felt better, I know I won't lose them if I really go after it as well now (that's probably more in my head )

I do love the technology side of golf, all the data you can gather these days and science (marketing?!) that goes into it, I am also quite prepared to ignore all of it and go with what feels best, sounds arse about face now I've written it down!

Interesting post Tiger, I have very similar views regarding equipment

As for Mark Crossfield, I can see how he can grate on people. I find him alright apart from the lessons, some interesting views that I don't subscribe to.

He is numbers obsessed, nothing else matters to him apart from 'functional impact'.

[ManFromDelmonte]

DuncanM said:

As for Mark Crossfield, I can see how he can grate on people. I find him alright apart from the lessons, some interesting views that I don't subscribe to.

He is numbers obsessed, nothing else matters to him apart from 'functional impact'.

What do you mean by this last point? Apart from doing yourself physical damage (Tiger?), I can't see much wrong with anyone's swing if it is functional (i.e. they can hit target).

[SpeckledJim]

ManFromDelmonte said:

DuncanM said:

As for Mark Crossfield, I can see how he can grate on people. I find him alright apart from the lessons, some interesting views that I don't subscribe to.

He is numbers obsessed, nothing else matters to him apart from 'functional impact'.

What do you mean by this last point? Apart from doing yourself physical damage (Tiger?), I can't see much wrong with anyone's swing if it is functional (i.e. they can hit target).

I think he means Crossfield might prefer a club with a 1% improvement in dispersal to a club that felt a lot better to hit.

I have no opinion either way.

[ManFromDelmonte]

SpeckledJim said:

I think he means Crossfield might prefer a club with a 1% improvement in dispersal to a club that felt a lot better to hit.

I have no opinion either way.

I'm not sure about that, MC always says that dispersal is down to you rather than the club and spends a lot of time banging on about how feel is very important (e.g. shaft makes very little difference other than to feel, which in turn can affect performance etc.).

MC suggests that if someone, for example, has a really weak left hand grip and an overly long swing but can still hit target then there is no problem. Other coaches would try and correct the 'faults'.

I was wondering what Duncan meant.

[dxbtiger]

ManFromDelmonte said:

I'm not sure about that, MC always says that dispersal is down to you rather than the club and spends a lot of time banging on about how feel is very important (e.g. shaft makes very little difference other than to feel, which in turn can affect performance etc.).

MC suggests that if someone, for example, has a really weak left hand grip and an overly long swing but can still hit target then there is no problem. Other coaches would try and correct the 'faults'.

I was wondering what Duncan meant.

Interesting viewpoint on shafts, which I can't agree with.

I've only watched the 3 reviews on the vapor drivers, one thing that occurred to me when he tested them was that there was no way the Speed would suit him as the stock shaft that could
comes with is a 50g fubuki, his clubhead speed whilst not being that high means he's never going to use one that light I don't think.

The pro and flex heads come with a diamana blueboard at either 60 or 70g depending which nike supplied him with, that will make a difference.

Take the SLDR, that's about the most shaft specific driver I've ever seen, can't hit the thing at all with the normal offering, give me the tp version which is heavier and I quite like it

[DuncanM]

ManFromDelmonte said:

SpeckledJim said:

I think he means Crossfield might prefer a club with a 1% improvement in dispersal to a club that felt a lot better to hit.

I have no opinion either way.

I'm not sure about that, MC always says that dispersal is down to you rather than the club and spends a lot of time banging on about how feel is very important (e.g. shaft makes very little difference other than to feel, which in turn can affect performance etc.).

MC suggests that if someone, for example, has a really weak left hand grip and an overly long swing but can still hit target then there is no problem. Other coaches would try and correct the 'faults'.

I was wondering what Duncan meant.

MFD, I massively disagree with quick fixing horror swings just to get the numbers right.

That's what is going on if you don't have an ideal system you teach.

For every strawman Furyk argument, I will show 100 technically excellent swings on tour and <cat 1 players.

If I go to a coach, I don't want to be taught how to 'save' my dodgy swing, I want a road map to a far better one.

Each to their own, just my opinion.

[Rosscow]

An interesting discussion, lads!

And yes what has been said does make sense. If I preferred the look/feel/sound of a particular club then I would buy that over one that maybe goes 5 or 10 yards further.

In reality only when 2 clubs were equally nice to hit would the numbers come into it, and I suppose that's a pretty rare thing to happen.

I do agree with the tuition - when I joined my club the first thing I did was get some lessons and sort my swing out. I had to make big changes to posture and alignment and it's made a big difference. I don't think you can ever really have 'quick fixes.'

In fact, I think golf is a sport that is never mastered, you can always improve regardless of handicap. Which is why I love it so much!

[ManFromDelmonte]

DuncanM said:

MFD, I massively disagree with quick fixing horror swings just to get the numbers right.

That's what is going on if you don't have an ideal system you teach.

For every strawman Furyk argument, I will show 100 technically excellent swings on tour and <cat 1 players.

If I go to a coach, I don't want to be taught how to 'save' my dodgy swing, I want a road map to a far better one.

Each to their own, just my opinion.

That sounds an entirely sensible approach. It would be interesting to see his approach on a true 'horror swing' as you put it. Most of the lessons I have watched, he is teaching fairly low handicap players who have a particular fault.

The great thing about golf is the number of different ways there are to achieve a particular goal. All interesting discussion.

[SpeckledJim]

SpeckledJim said:

I agree too, I think he's done.

And I can't see him soldiering on either. Retired within 1-2 years. Maybe an ill-fated, boredom-related comeback in a few years after that.

His ego won't let him finish 80th every week for very long. The cheque won't even fuel the Learjet.

Of course, when I said 1-2 years, I meant 1-2 days.

[DuncanM]

SpeckledJim said:

SpeckledJim said:

I agree too, I think he's done.

And I can't see him soldiering on either. Retired within 1-2 years. Maybe an ill-fated, boredom-related comeback in a few years after that.

His ego won't let him finish 80th every week for very long. The cheque won't even fuel the Learjet.

Of course, when I said 1-2 years, I meant 1-2 days.

Wow man, unreal news about Tiger

MFD, I actually got into a silly argument on Youtube with Mark, search for give the student the tools and see what you think of the advice :/

[DuncanM]

Not my finest moment, wine played a part but I tried to be polite whilst asking an important question...

Live Golf Lessons Give The Student Tools: http://youtu.be/N9zM6ZCG8Xs

[MrAdaam]

Guys - is there any recommendations for a completely new person (other than the odd lesson 7-8 years ago!) coming into the sport on clubs and equipment to buy? I've seen a few recommendations for the Callaway Strata clubs online and at ~£150 they're quite appealing to wet my appetite with before spending a serious amount of money on the sport, which feels all too easy!