The Golf Thread - 2015
Discussion
ManFromDelmonte said:
The clubhead/handle part was that I was maintaining the approx 90 degree angle between my right forearm and the club for too long in my downswing. He asked me to feel that I was basically dumping that angle as soon as I started my downswing in order to allow the clubhead to catch up with my hands by the point of impact. Previously my hands would have been ahead of the ball, delofting the club and forcing me to twist the club in an effort to get the head square to target.
Looks like that I did indeed interpret it incorrectly the first time. Thanks for explaining it. 
Kentlad - googling the water bottle drill throws up multiple ways of using one. I'm really confused now.
Rosscow said:
No, that's a fair comment.
My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
What are the doubles down to? Nice to see nothing worse than doubles on your card though. That's decent consistency! In contrast i had a stinker on Saturday. Again. Oh well! Anyone see the two hole in ones at Doral this weekend? Just seen them & both are impressive. My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Mixed feelings re DJ winning after his 'ban' or 'leave of the game'
kentlad said:
What are the doubles down to? Nice to see nothing worse than doubles on your card though. That's decent consistency! In contrast i had a stinker on Saturday. Again. Oh well! Anyone see the two hole in ones at Doral this weekend? Just seen them & both are impressive.
Mixed feelings re DJ winning after his 'ban' or 'leave of the game'
The 2nd was a crap tee shot followed by a poor pitchMixed feelings re DJ winning after his 'ban' or 'leave of the game'
The 12th was a bit of naff approach which left me just off the green. Chipped on but 3 putted.
The 18th I managed to pull hook my tee shot into the rough, followed by a 7 iron into the rough left of the green, 2 chips to get on!
Much more consistent though, I missed 6 birdie putts!
Rosscow said:
No, that's a fair comment.
My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Reading the chart, you hit 7 pars, and missed 7 fairways. Only once did you manage to save par after missing the fairway.My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Yet when you did hit the fairway, a par was the result 50% of the time, and the other 50% were only bogeys.
Both your par 4 double bogeys came on holes when:
A: You missed the fairway.
B: You used your driver
C: The hole was short enough to reach in (approx) 5w & 9i, so the driver was a needlessly dangerous indulgence.
My at-a-distance conclusion: 2-3 shots at least are to be easily gained in halving the amount you use the biggun. No practice required!
I wish I had the discipline to collect this level of data on my game, it really helps in retrospect to see the patterns between what choices were made, what then happened and what score resulted.
SpeckledJim said:
Rosscow said:
No, that's a fair comment.
My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Reading the chart, you hit 7 pars, and missed 7 fairways. Only once did you manage to save par after missing the fairway.My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Yet when you did hit the fairway, a par was the result 50% of the time, and the other 50% were only bogeys.
Both your par 4 double bogeys came on holes when:
A: You missed the fairway.
B: You used your driver
C: The hole was short enough to reach in (approx) 5w & 9i, so the driver was a needlessly dangerous indulgence.
My at-a-distance conclusion: 2-3 shots at least are to be easily gained in halving the amount you use the biggun. No practice required!
I wish I had the discipline to collect this level of data on my game, it really helps in retrospect to see the patterns between what choices were made, what then happened and what score resulted.
And you are probably right. However, it may look like you don't need a driver on paper but both the 12th and the 18th were playing into a 2 club wind against and across the direction of tee shot.
For example, the Par 3 16th was playing 170 yards and yet I needed to hit a 4 iron to reach!
But you are definitely correct, I really need to get back to hitting my 3 wood and hybrid off the tee more.
Thanks for the analysis, it's certainly made me think
Rosscow said:
SpeckledJim said:
Rosscow said:
No, that's a fair comment.
My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Reading the chart, you hit 7 pars, and missed 7 fairways. Only once did you manage to save par after missing the fairway.My answer to that would be that there are several holes that I would use the 3 wood on (5, 9, 12 and 18).
However, I'm really not very confident with it at the moment, it's a bit of a work in progress!
Yet when you did hit the fairway, a par was the result 50% of the time, and the other 50% were only bogeys.
Both your par 4 double bogeys came on holes when:
A: You missed the fairway.
B: You used your driver
C: The hole was short enough to reach in (approx) 5w & 9i, so the driver was a needlessly dangerous indulgence.
My at-a-distance conclusion: 2-3 shots at least are to be easily gained in halving the amount you use the biggun. No practice required!
I wish I had the discipline to collect this level of data on my game, it really helps in retrospect to see the patterns between what choices were made, what then happened and what score resulted.
And you are probably right. However, it may look like you don't need a driver on paper but both the 12th and the 18th were playing into a 2 club wind against and across the direction of tee shot.
For example, the Par 3 16th was playing 170 yards and yet I needed to hit a 4 iron to reach!
But you are definitely correct, I really need to get back to hitting my 3 wood and hybrid off the tee more.
Thanks for the analysis, it's certainly made me think
What would be useful is perhaps 10-20 rounds of data, to get a better level of confidence. With that you can see how you tend to score between a par 4 tackled with 1w PW against say 5w 8i.
I know my level of accuracy with an 8i is pretty similar to my PW, but my 5w is miles straighter than my driver, so it is rare that a hole asking for driver is really worth it.
I only really have one way to spell triple, and it starts with my driver. Because my shot selection is generally conservative (and my putting is so poor) I rarely make a birdie, so the impact of a rogue triple takes a good few steady holes to erode away.
It is almost never that I can walk off from a par and attribute that success to the drive, but more often than not, the drive is what was responsible for a double or triple.
If we can take 2 putts as a given (I know, I know) then the engine of pars is the approach shot. Bunkers, aprons and greenside rough are the home of the bogey. I'm reasonably long (fnurr), so for me that approach is usually a 7i or shorter. Thankfully, that's the best part of my game. (putting is effing awful).
So if my tee shot is purely dedicated to reducing the par 4 hole to a 7i or less par 3, and I do a reasonably good job of both of those shots, then the game is easy. (easy! ha!)
Separate point - the 12th and 18th were into and across the wind, so costing you distance and accuracy. You used a driver and missed the fairway, collecting 4 dropped shots.
What would have happened if you'd hit 3i off the tee?
My guess is your chances of birdie go down a lot and your chance of par may also go down a bit. But your chance of bogey goes up, and your chance of a double or triple goes down A LOT.
Dunno, needs testing!
Are you in good-enough books at your club to be allowed, next time the wind is really blowing, to hit 10 balls with the driver and 10 balls with the 3i, then complete the hole with each ball and graph the results?
That would potentially be really useful data on something where your instinct of what is the right thing to do might be entirely wrong.
Sometimes, when a par 4 is playing very difficult, the best way to approach is it to play it as a par 5 and hope for a birdie.
After all, the pros will all tell you that the easiest holes on the course are the shorter par 5s.
Improving strategy and shot selection is where the easiest shots are to pick up. No practice needed!
That would potentially be really useful data on something where your instinct of what is the right thing to do might be entirely wrong.
Sometimes, when a par 4 is playing very difficult, the best way to approach is it to play it as a par 5 and hope for a birdie.
After all, the pros will all tell you that the easiest holes on the course are the shorter par 5s.
Improving strategy and shot selection is where the easiest shots are to pick up. No practice needed!
Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 9th March 12:59
Our comp at the weekend was an am am format with each player only being allowed 5 clubs. I selected putter, PW, 7I, 4 hybrid and driver. Despite the miserable conditions I contributed 8 pars to the team score plus several 2 point bogies. It turned out to be a very enjoyable round because of the need to play shots with a club I wouldn't necessarily have chosen e.g. hitting a half or three quarter approach shot to get the right distance. I even played a couple of nice green side bunker shots with the PW by opening the face and taking account that it would run more once on the green.
SpeckledJim said:
Are you in good-enough books at your club to be allowed, next time the wind is really blowing, to hit 10 balls with the driver and 10 balls with the 3i, then complete the hole with each ball and graph the results?
That would potentially be really useful data on something where your instinct of what is the right thing to do might be entirely wrong.
Sometimes, when a par 4 is playing very difficult, the best way to approach is it to play it as a par 5 and hope for a birdie.
After all, the pros will all tell you that the easiest holes on the course are the shorter par 5s.
Improving strategy and shot selection is where the easiest shots are to pick up. No practice needed!
I can do that whenever I wish - in fact I could play the 1st and the 9th consecutively 10 times, alternating tee shots as you suggest.That would potentially be really useful data on something where your instinct of what is the right thing to do might be entirely wrong.
Sometimes, when a par 4 is playing very difficult, the best way to approach is it to play it as a par 5 and hope for a birdie.
After all, the pros will all tell you that the easiest holes on the course are the shorter par 5s.
Improving strategy and shot selection is where the easiest shots are to pick up. No practice needed!
Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 9th March 12:59
I think it's an excellent idea!
When the clocks go forward and I can get 2 hours in after work I'll give it a go.
All of your posts have been very thought provoking and useful, thank you very much indeed.
Rosscow said:
SpeckledJim said:
Are you in good-enough books at your club to be allowed, next time the wind is really blowing, to hit 10 balls with the driver and 10 balls with the 3i, then complete the hole with each ball and graph the results?
That would potentially be really useful data on something where your instinct of what is the right thing to do might be entirely wrong.
Sometimes, when a par 4 is playing very difficult, the best way to approach is it to play it as a par 5 and hope for a birdie.
After all, the pros will all tell you that the easiest holes on the course are the shorter par 5s.
Improving strategy and shot selection is where the easiest shots are to pick up. No practice needed!
I can do that whenever I wish - in fact I could play the 1st and the 9th consecutively 10 times, alternating tee shots as you suggest.That would potentially be really useful data on something where your instinct of what is the right thing to do might be entirely wrong.
Sometimes, when a par 4 is playing very difficult, the best way to approach is it to play it as a par 5 and hope for a birdie.
After all, the pros will all tell you that the easiest holes on the course are the shorter par 5s.
Improving strategy and shot selection is where the easiest shots are to pick up. No practice needed!
Edited by SpeckledJim on Monday 9th March 12:59
I think it's an excellent idea!
When the clocks go forward and I can get 2 hours in after work I'll give it a go.
All of your posts have been very thought provoking and useful, thank you very much indeed.
When alone on an empty course, I sometimes play two balls with opposite strategies
- desperately go hell for leather for birdie
- aim for par/bogey, but protecting at all costs against double bogey or worse
boxsey said:
Looks like that I did indeed interpret it incorrectly the first time. Thanks for explaining it.
Kentlad - googling the water bottle drill throws up multiple ways of using one. I'm really confused now.
Sorry Boxsey, the link Man from delmonte provided is the one! Really simple effective drill. Let us know how you get on!Kentlad - googling the water bottle drill throws up multiple ways of using one. I'm really confused now.
So, this is the standard view you get for each hole (this is the par 3 2nd at Rye):
You can then zoom in on whichever area you like, which will give you updated yardages to that point and then to the centre of the green:
It can also give a 'flyby' of the hole (useful for courses you haven't played):
Obviously you can set all the clubs up for your personal set/distances:
You can then zoom in on whichever area you like, which will give you updated yardages to that point and then to the centre of the green:
It can also give a 'flyby' of the hole (useful for courses you haven't played):
Obviously you can set all the clubs up for your personal set/distances:
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