The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
Yeah I have great sympathy for anyone who has to do any kind of decent/half serious swimming in a public lane swim. The amount of tossers present really annoys. Here we even have a very fast lane, because this place being full of top rate swimmers, ex-swimmers, ex-tri-guys etc there has to be some kind of extra lane for them all to go in. Doesn't stop the douche bags who decide they can mix it with the big boys by trundling up and down on their backs kicking with a float basically being a mobile chicane!!!
Otispunkmeyer said:
Yeah I have great sympathy for anyone who has to do any kind of decent/half serious swimming in a public lane swim. The amount of tossers present really annoys. Here we even have a very fast lane, because this place being full of top rate swimmers, ex-swimmers, ex-tri-guys etc there has to be some kind of extra lane for them all to go in. Doesn't stop the douche bags who decide they can mix it with the big boys by trundling up and down on their backs kicking with a float basically being a mobile chicane!!!
Yeah people with no lane etiquette really take the fun out of swimming. M local pool is a nightmare for it. I have a pool near work which has 6 lanes, 1 easy access disabled lane, 2 slow, 2 medium and 1 fast. The people who go there are quite friendly and will happily move lanes if they are slower. We all move into the slow lane to do skulling and kicking also. Still get the occasional tosser but fewer than the other place.First buy when my lottery numbers come up Is a private pool.
My swim training has been a right mess recently. Holidays, then was ill for two weeks has just thrown me out of whack.
Started down at the lake 2 times a week. Doing one session focussing on starts, sighting, turns with some short laps and another just building the distance. Got some 10ks near the end of the summer so need to build the distance.
Started using a HRV app to track recovery. Still in the phase of finding a baseline but some interesting results. Be good to get some actual guidance as to when to go hard and when to ease back or take a rest.
Started down at the lake 2 times a week. Doing one session focussing on starts, sighting, turns with some short laps and another just building the distance. Got some 10ks near the end of the summer so need to build the distance.
Started using a HRV app to track recovery. Still in the phase of finding a baseline but some interesting results. Be good to get some actual guidance as to when to go hard and when to ease back or take a rest.
I have just had my first swim in 6 weeks and it showed.
I tried to do 1.5k as quick as possible and managed 28 minutes which was depressing. It is the same pace that I was doing to swim just over 3k in an hour! A few weeks off makes a bloody huge difference. Having said that, I have managed to do a half and a full marathon since my last swim.
I tried to do 1.5k as quick as possible and managed 28 minutes which was depressing. It is the same pace that I was doing to swim just over 3k in an hour! A few weeks off makes a bloody huge difference. Having said that, I have managed to do a half and a full marathon since my last swim.
krallicious said:
I have just had my first swim in 6 weeks and it showed.
I tried to do 1.5k as quick as possible and managed 28 minutes which was depressing. It is the same pace that I was doing to swim just over 3k in an hour! A few weeks off makes a bloody huge difference. Having said that, I have managed to do a half and a full marathon since my last swim.
Indeed it does. I find, if I miss a week, so long as I have been doing something else like running or weights then getting back into the pool isn't so bad. 2 weeks, it feels like you're back to square one. Takes a session just to get the feel of the water back. Usually find that within 2 weeks, normal service is resumed.I tried to do 1.5k as quick as possible and managed 28 minutes which was depressing. It is the same pace that I was doing to swim just over 3k in an hour! A few weeks off makes a bloody huge difference. Having said that, I have managed to do a half and a full marathon since my last swim.
Popped along to a club session this week just to say 'hi' really - they are all in Manchester this weekend for the British Long Course Nationals (Masters). Hadn't been in the pool since August last year and not properly trained since before Masters Nationals in 2013; since my boy came along I can't put him to bed and make the club session times, so swimming has to take a back seat for a few years. I don't do public sessions (I need to train with others) and there is no other club within 20 miles of me. Anyway, the session was an eye-opener to say the least. Went one lane down from where I used to be; warm-up was ok, but I was out the back immediately on the main set 8x200 off 3 mins and blew completely after 6 reps. Had to drop two further lanes where they were turning around 30 seconds slower.
If I were to go back today I think it would take at least 6-9 months to get back into any kind of shape to compete, so when/if I do finally get back in the water, it'll be one for the long haul. Roll on 2020!
If I were to go back today I think it would take at least 6-9 months to get back into any kind of shape to compete, so when/if I do finally get back in the water, it'll be one for the long haul. Roll on 2020!
Not strictly swimming, but synchro. Specifically Austrian Synchro swimmers at the European games in Azerbaijan. Thoughts with the 3 athletes who were basically run over by a bus, from behind as they walked to the pool. One looks to have come away relatively unscathed as they were pushed clear of the bus, the other two were less lucky, being dragged under the wheels and along the floor. Apparently one has been flown back to Austria in an induced coma. Not life threatening, but multiple fractures and a badly damaged spine. She's only 15 as well.
Absolutely horrific video can be seen of this. Bus driver swings round a mini-roundabout and crashes into the back of the athletes as they were walking on the pavement. Looked like he wasn't in control. He's been arrested and detained. Absolutely terrible.
Absolutely horrific video can be seen of this. Bus driver swings round a mini-roundabout and crashes into the back of the athletes as they were walking on the pavement. Looked like he wasn't in control. He's been arrested and detained. Absolutely terrible.
First proper OW race this Saturday. I did a couple a few years ago but was so ill prepared for the cold water I DNF'd one and breaststroked the other.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Right. I need some tips from you seasoned OW swimmers about how to sight in OW.
I had the worst OW of my life on Sunday in a HIM. Basically I veered all over the place, got lost, the whole thing.
Issues I have with sighting:
- keeping my feet up whilst I raise my head.
- raising my head too far out of the water.
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my stroke
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my breathing.
- generally finding that sighting costs me momentum.
If it's a case of "practise, and find what works for you because it's always going to be a bit s
t", then fine. I can do that. But if there are some handy cheats, I'm all ears.
I had the worst OW of my life on Sunday in a HIM. Basically I veered all over the place, got lost, the whole thing.
Issues I have with sighting:
- keeping my feet up whilst I raise my head.
- raising my head too far out of the water.
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my stroke
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my breathing.
- generally finding that sighting costs me momentum.
If it's a case of "practise, and find what works for you because it's always going to be a bit s
t", then fine. I can do that. But if there are some handy cheats, I'm all ears. I know how you feel Greg66. Sighting is incredible difficult to do well I find and I notice the impact it can have on my rhythm and speed a lot
What is your stoke like? Is there any cross over on your hand entry or pull? This will cause you to swimming wonky. Also does your body snake when you swim? This generally will because of a cross over as well.
When I sight I aim for the crocodile eyes technique so just lifting my head slightly and eyes forward, mouth and nose still under water. This only works when conditions are relatively flat. Its also hard if the buoys are very small. The OW venue I train at has very small buoys and when they are 300m away you cant see them. So what I do is look for something behind them that is much taller and aim for that. A tall tree poking up etc. This means you have to lift your head less. Its not always possible but something to consider.
When I go to sight I keep the arm in the water straight and push down on the water to push my head up. I find this helps to keep my legs relative flat although they are going to drop slightly. Increase your kick when you sight slightly helps to keep them up.
I breathe on every two strokes (have to as I have such long arms) and I sight every 10 or so. I lift my head slightly, sight, then twist my head to breathe. Some people combine sighting and breathing together but I find this means you have to lift you head much further out of the water. I find sometimes it easy to sight on two or three concurrent strokes and keeping my head low rather than one big head up and see exactly where I am going but slowing me down.
A good drill my coach gets me to do, which you can do in the pool and OW is 4 up, 4 down. So swim normally and do 4 strokes head down, 4 stokes head up sighting. I place my water bottle in the centre of the lane for something to aim for. I do 12x25m of that.
Having said all that a lot of it is just down to trying a few ways and see what works best. Work on any stroke defects to ensure you can swim in a straight line, this will help by keeping you straight and also mean you have to sight less often. Add some sighting drills to your pool swims as well as OW.
Other technique of course is to find someone quick who looks like they know what they are doing and tickle their toes all the way to the finish ( or overtake them 100 m out because they are so knackered from towing you round :-) ).
What is your stoke like? Is there any cross over on your hand entry or pull? This will cause you to swimming wonky. Also does your body snake when you swim? This generally will because of a cross over as well.
When I sight I aim for the crocodile eyes technique so just lifting my head slightly and eyes forward, mouth and nose still under water. This only works when conditions are relatively flat. Its also hard if the buoys are very small. The OW venue I train at has very small buoys and when they are 300m away you cant see them. So what I do is look for something behind them that is much taller and aim for that. A tall tree poking up etc. This means you have to lift your head less. Its not always possible but something to consider.
When I go to sight I keep the arm in the water straight and push down on the water to push my head up. I find this helps to keep my legs relative flat although they are going to drop slightly. Increase your kick when you sight slightly helps to keep them up.
I breathe on every two strokes (have to as I have such long arms) and I sight every 10 or so. I lift my head slightly, sight, then twist my head to breathe. Some people combine sighting and breathing together but I find this means you have to lift you head much further out of the water. I find sometimes it easy to sight on two or three concurrent strokes and keeping my head low rather than one big head up and see exactly where I am going but slowing me down.
A good drill my coach gets me to do, which you can do in the pool and OW is 4 up, 4 down. So swim normally and do 4 strokes head down, 4 stokes head up sighting. I place my water bottle in the centre of the lane for something to aim for. I do 12x25m of that.
Having said all that a lot of it is just down to trying a few ways and see what works best. Work on any stroke defects to ensure you can swim in a straight line, this will help by keeping you straight and also mean you have to sight less often. Add some sighting drills to your pool swims as well as OW.
Other technique of course is to find someone quick who looks like they know what they are doing and tickle their toes all the way to the finish ( or overtake them 100 m out because they are so knackered from towing you round :-) ).
Cheers - some good tips in there to work on.
Speedwise, I'm a shade over 6m for 400m and a shade under 2.50 for 200m. I've ironed out a lot of crossing and snaking this year - now down to 16-17 strokes per 25m in a pool. Race pace for am OW tri was (two years ago 1.45/100m; now it should be closer to 1.40 - 1.42. By no means fantastically fast by swim standards, but usually good enough to get me top 1/4 or top 1/5 in a tri-field. On Sunday: 1.57/100m pace! - 1900m done 3.5 mins slower than last year in Mallorca, which was done off basically minimal prep.
Sunday's course was pretty well three 600m stretches with a large buoy at the corners in the distance and intermediate buoys at 200m. Also a bit of wind whipping across the surface. But even so, I was st.
I find drafting someone tricky because basically you come up on their feet then have to work out whether they are above or below your pace - I'd rather just plough on.
I will certainly try the drive down, and also the sight + breathe in a single stroke. I think I tend to try to sight in between breathes, which I don't suppose is a great idea. I think you're right that I need to try something like sight every fourth stroke - I never really practise it in a pool and so the muscle/movement memory is completely blank.
Cheers - will report back in due course.
Speedwise, I'm a shade over 6m for 400m and a shade under 2.50 for 200m. I've ironed out a lot of crossing and snaking this year - now down to 16-17 strokes per 25m in a pool. Race pace for am OW tri was (two years ago 1.45/100m; now it should be closer to 1.40 - 1.42. By no means fantastically fast by swim standards, but usually good enough to get me top 1/4 or top 1/5 in a tri-field. On Sunday: 1.57/100m pace! - 1900m done 3.5 mins slower than last year in Mallorca, which was done off basically minimal prep.
Sunday's course was pretty well three 600m stretches with a large buoy at the corners in the distance and intermediate buoys at 200m. Also a bit of wind whipping across the surface. But even so, I was s
t. I find drafting someone tricky because basically you come up on their feet then have to work out whether they are above or below your pace - I'd rather just plough on.
I will certainly try the drive down, and also the sight + breathe in a single stroke. I think I tend to try to sight in between breathes, which I don't suppose is a great idea. I think you're right that I need to try something like sight every fourth stroke - I never really practise it in a pool and so the muscle/movement memory is completely blank.
Cheers - will report back in due course.
944fan said:
First proper OW race this Saturday. I did a couple a few years ago but was so ill prepared for the cold water I DNF'd one and breaststroked the other.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Not being a distance swimmer and definitely not an OW swimmer, I guess all I could suggest is not to go off too hot and just build into a pace. Its all too easy to go out quite fast on the first few 100 m and feel good only to have it hit you not long after. Oh and breathe lots.Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Greg66 said:
Right. I need some tips from you seasoned OW swimmers about how to sight in OW.
I had the worst OW of my life on Sunday in a HIM. Basically I veered all over the place, got lost, the whole thing.
Issues I have with sighting:
- keeping my feet up whilst I raise my head.
- raising my head too far out of the water.
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my stroke
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my breathing.
- generally finding that sighting costs me momentum.
If it's a case of "practise, and find what works for you because it's always going to be a bit st", then fine. I can do that. But if there are some handy cheats, I'm all ears.
My eye sight is shocking, but as a pool swimmer I only need to follow the black line on the floor! Though in a pool, swimming straight is easy anyway. I had the worst OW of my life on Sunday in a HIM. Basically I veered all over the place, got lost, the whole thing.
Issues I have with sighting:
- keeping my feet up whilst I raise my head.
- raising my head too far out of the water.
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my stroke
- generally finding that sighting disrupts my breathing.
- generally finding that sighting costs me momentum.
If it's a case of "practise, and find what works for you because it's always going to be a bit s
t", then fine. I can do that. But if there are some handy cheats, I'm all ears. I have done some OW, mostly surf swims (can't bring myself to swim in manky rivers and canals). The method I was shown by a seasoned OW swimmer (this guy used to do 25k's in Loch Lomond and has swum the channel in part of a relay). was to every so often, even as often as every 4 stroke cycles (thats 1 left arm 1 right arm), pop your head up forward on a breath stroke briefly to sight and then meld it into a normal breath to the side to finish. As I said, you might need to do this a few times successively to hone in because you probably won't spot it first time unless they have big bright buoys.
Its all one motion and you might find you need to put a little kick burst in to keep the hips up and speed up but to me it feels quite organic. It fits with the stroke and doesnt feel like you're doing something out of step.
I just completed a channel relay swim, which I will not say I enjoyed but endured is a better description.
The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.
The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.
The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.
The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.
Greg66 said:
Speedwise, I'm a shade over 6m for 400m and a shade under 2.50 for 200m.
You and I are pretty identical in terms of pace. In a pool I am 6:04 for 400m, and 2:48 for 200m. At that pace we should be swimming fairly straight. Much easier in a pool though. One thing I find hard is often even in enclosed lakes you can get some strong currents which push you off course.Your post and my reply made me think I should do some serious sighting practice ahead of my race on Saturday. Here are my GPS results.
Ignoring the one in the middle - that was a short 200m loop and I ended up following someone with a pink hat and not a pink buoy. There isn't really a buoy at the end of the loop so I just head for the clubhouse/jetty which is why I have veered off a bit.
Conditions were flat so crocodile eyes worked well. My wetsuit was rubbing my neck again so I was trying to avoid sighting as much as possible. This is the course I was on
Bigger picture - http://s233012449.websitehome.co.uk/wp-content/upl...
The map is arse about face but I was swimming from the white start buoy to the first yellow then to the red marker in a triangle.
Otispunkmeyer said:
944fan said:
First proper OW race this Saturday. I did a couple a few years ago but was so ill prepared for the cold water I DNF'd one and breaststroked the other.
Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Not being a distance swimmer and definitely not an OW swimmer, I guess all I could suggest is not to go off too hot and just build into a pace. Its all too easy to go out quite fast on the first few 100 m and feel good only to have it hit you not long after. Oh and breathe lots.Anyway 3.8K race at Box End on Saturday. Not feeling 100% ready as I've been ill and training has tailed off a bit. Also still got a bit of an eye infection so if my goggles leak I've had it.
I've done 3.8K in training non stop but that was at an easy pace. Not sure how to pace myself for the race. Hopping for around the 1hr10min mark.
Its 3 and a bit laps and they have a big clock by the start finish so at least I will know how fast each lap is.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I just completed a channel relay swim, which I will not say I enjoyed but endured is a better description.
The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.
The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.
If you do a lot of sea swimming I think you alter your stroke to compensate for the water being all over the place. In surf life saving we always used to comment how the guys who were good on the beach and in the surf were mostly awful once they got in the pool and vice versa. In the sea it seems much more forgiving of having a crabby looking stroke with a high stroke rate. You can't really have any glide or long-drawn out stroke and you have to often make a real effort to make sure your recovery portion is above the waves!The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.
The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.
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