The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW

[944fan]

Otispunkmeyer said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

I just completed a channel relay swim, which I will not say I enjoyed but endured is a better description.

The channel is something else in terms of conditions, I swallowed enough seawater to drain the channel. It is a very harsh and totally unforgiving environment and I have a whole new level of respect for the solo guys.

The weird thing is getting back into a pool, it feels strange, I need to adjust back to pool swimming, I might do an open water swim(lake swim) this weekend to ease myself back into it.

If you do a lot of sea swimming I think you alter your stroke to compensate for the water being all over the place. In surf life saving we always used to comment how the guys who were good on the beach and in the surf were mostly awful once they got in the pool and vice versa. In the sea it seems much more forgiving of having a crabby looking stroke with a high stroke rate. You can't really have any glide or long-drawn out stroke and you have to often make a real effort to make sure your recovery portion is above the waves!

Yes they talk about this on Swimsmooth. They call it the smooth and swinger stroke styles and swinger (rapid arm turn over) works better in choppy water.

I have a 3KM sea swim coming up in July and I have a very long smooth stroke and have been trying to up my rate but its hard when you are my height

[QuantumTokoloshi]

944fan said:

Yes they talk about this on Swimsmooth. They call it the smooth and swinger stroke styles and swinger (rapid arm turn over) works better in choppy water.

I have a 3KM sea swim coming up in July and I have a very long smooth stroke and have been trying to up my rate but its hard when you are my height

I must admit my stroke feels odd in the pool, even my breathing seems different, probably because I am constantly waiting to get a dump of water over me at any moment. I need to get more "distance per stroke", rather than a higher stroke rate,. if that makes sense.

I will have a longer pool session tonight, which hopefully will slowly start to get it back to normality.

[944fan]

I did a 3.8KM race yesterday. Came 18th out of 36. 1:07:34 was my time. Was quite a strong field with the winner doing 47:43.

Was happy with my time overall. Still had plenty in tank at the end. Turned the final buoy level with another swimmer and was able to out sprint him over the final 100m or so.

Felt like I probably could have gone a bit faster. Was trying to pace myself over the first couple of laps so I didn't blow up but when I reached the 3rd lap I felt very fresh still. First time racing that distance so just need to learn my pacing better.

[krallicious]

Good work with the race but 47 minutes for 3.8k is just silly!

I managed 2.3k in 45 minutes this morning. Starting to get back into the swing of things now but I am stilling finding that I need to get the first km out of the way before I can settle down and find my stroke/pace. Strangley, the first km is the slowest.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Well thats me out the water for a while (pending physio that is).

Had a sore shoulder for a while, I think caused by trying to do some gardening! But then I went wake boarding at the weekend for a friends birthday and just wasn't thinking. First time wake boarding so we were on the knee boards. First corner, lines goes slack and then suddenly rips up tension again. Almost pulled my arms out their sockets! Wrenched my shoulder pretty good.

Tried to swim on tuesday and it just wasn't happening. Anything above just cruising felt uncomfortable.

[944fan]

krallicious said:

Good work with the race but 47 minutes for 3.8k is just silly!

I managed 2.3k in 45 minutes this morning. Starting to get back into the swing of things now but I am stilling finding that I need to get the first km out of the way before I can settle down and find my stroke/pace. Strangley, the first km is the slowest.

I know. Their pace was 1:15/100m for the whole race. My coach (who is obviously a lot faster than me) said that some of the 3.8Kers passed him on the fast lap when he was doing the 5K, and the 3.8K race started about 70m further back, so they were going some.

My goal for next year is to break that 1hr mark. Think I can probably do that.

I know what you mean about taking time to settle down. I find this much worse in Open Water, just getting used to your pace and the wetsuit. My shoulder hurts for the first 10 mins as well. I am so worried about going out too fast that I inevitably go too slow to start with.

Otispunkmeyer said:

Well thats me out the water for a while (pending physio that is).

Had a sore shoulder for a while, I think caused by trying to do some gardening! But then I went wake boarding at the weekend for a friends birthday and just wasn't thinking. First time wake boarding so we were on the knee boards. First corner, lines goes slack and then suddenly rips up tension again. Almost pulled my arms out their sockets! Wrenched my shoulder pretty good.

Tried to swim on tuesday and it just wasn't happening. Anything above just cruising felt uncomfortable.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully its nothing major and you will recover quickly.

[Otispunkmeyer]

944fan said:

krallicious said:

Good work with the race but 47 minutes for 3.8k is just silly!

I managed 2.3k in 45 minutes this morning. Starting to get back into the swing of things now but I am stilling finding that I need to get the first km out of the way before I can settle down and find my stroke/pace. Strangley, the first km is the slowest.

I know. Their pace was 1:15/100m for the whole race. My coach (who is obviously a lot faster than me) said that some of the 3.8Kers passed him on the fast lap when he was doing the 5K, and the 3.8K race started about 70m further back, so they were going some.

My goal for next year is to break that 1hr mark. Think I can probably do that.

I know what you mean about taking time to settle down. I find this much worse in Open Water, just getting used to your pace and the wetsuit. My shoulder hurts for the first 10 mins as well. I am so worried about going out too fast that I inevitably go too slow to start with.

Otispunkmeyer said:

Well thats me out the water for a while (pending physio that is).

Had a sore shoulder for a while, I think caused by trying to do some gardening! But then I went wake boarding at the weekend for a friends birthday and just wasn't thinking. First time wake boarding so we were on the knee boards. First corner, lines goes slack and then suddenly rips up tension again. Almost pulled my arms out their sockets! Wrenched my shoulder pretty good.

Tried to swim on tuesday and it just wasn't happening. Anything above just cruising felt uncomfortable.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully its nothing major and you will recover quickly.

Hope so!

Skipping pretty much everything, including gym work this week and just going for runs instead. Even doing squats exasperates it because of holding the bar on your back. So best to just not go. Let it rest. Running should keep some fitness up! But swimmers don't really make good runners...its bloody hardwork. I did 6km cross country on wednesday and it took me 30 minutes!

[krallicious]

A great day for the outdoor pool apart from the idiots who jump in and 'steal' your lane and then decide not to swim straight. aholes.

Now I have that out of the way, 2.35k in 47 minutes which isn't bad considering I have been fasting since Monday.

[krallicious]

Managed a 1.5k PB this morning of 26 minutes and went on to swim 2.2k in 40 minutes. Feels like I am making some progress now but still want to knock off 3 minutes by the end of the year.

[944fan]

I had a crap race at the weekend. Was a 3Km sea swim.

Started off great, calm conditions, got out towards the front group and was swimming strong. Turned at the first buoy fine, then turned at the next. The wind had picked up a lot by this point and although I was swimming with the tide there was a lot of swell and chop. Got a load of sea water swallowed, throat was burning, lips were sore. Got slapped by a couple of waves in succession and was struggling. Started doing head up breastroke which worked until I turned again and now into the tide I was swimming on the spot. Back in to freestyle and powered through. End of first lap, decided to turn into shore and DNF. I really felt if I had carried on I would have needed fishing out by the lifeguards on the second lap.

Really wasn't prepared for how different sea swimming is to lake swimming.

[krallicious]

Shame about the DNF but things don't always go to plan. How much sea swimming did you do before the race?

[Dimski]

If you have are a strong swimmer then you will get used to the sea quite quickly, but obviously conditions can change a lot.

In the Wales swim, a 3.8km on the Ironman Wales course, I went from 53 minutes last year on what felt like a very quick/short course, to 1:07 this year, finishing in a similar position to last year. In Dock 9 in Salford I managed a 1 hour 1 minute time for a 3.8km, which shows how much the times can vary.

Last year the conditions for Ironman day itself were brutal, and it resulted in a high number of DNFs from the swim. I know that even a few locals suffered after it.

[anonymous-user]

944fan said:

Their pace was 1:15/100m for the whole race.

Jesus, that is mental. I did a light drill based session yesterday and as I wasn't tired decided to go balls out for the final 100m - absolutely full bore no holds barred anaerobic swim like there's a shark behind you. 1m 17s. And man, was I fked at the end of 100m!

[944fan]

krallicious said:

Shame about the DNF but things don't always go to plan. How much sea swimming did you do before the race?

Ahem. fk all! That explains it.

Had done loads of OW in a lake but was ill prepared for it. I had also been ill for about 6 weeks on and off and had hardly trained. When the current got strong I had nothing left to fight it.

Lesson learnt

[944fan]

Greg66 said:

944fan said:

Their pace was 1:15/100m for the whole race.

Jesus, that is mental. I did a light drill based session yesterday and as I wasn't tired decided to go balls out for the final 100m - absolutely full bore no holds barred anaerobic swim like there's a shark behind you. 1m 17s. And man, was I fked at the end of 100m!

I know. My 400m PB is 6:04 and my 100m is 1:21 and I need a fking big rest at the end of that 100m.

[944fan]

Finally seem to have cleared my illness and back into proper training.

I have a 10K in 6 weeks so looking forward to that. Need to resume doing some longer swims in the lake. Hopefully build up to about 7K

[Otispunkmeyer]

Shoulder is feeling much better! Got a full set in yesterday and was able to lean on it for some faster stuff.

Must remember to still ease into it though. Probably not ready for full gung-ho action just yet. I have also had to modify my break-out, starting the stroke with the left, rather than the right arm. This is because it still twinges with pain if I go from stream line to pulling with that arm. I guess its to do with the angle change. Better to start on the left and let the right straighten out before beginning the pull.

Feel much better! Was starting to feel pretty horrible not being able to do much exercise.

[944fan]

Glad you are starting to recovery. Shoulders can be a bugger. I hit mine about two years ago and it still occasionally has a twinge.

I am sure you already know all this but this book has lots of good injury prevention / recovery exercises for shoulders:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Conditioning-Swim...

[Otispunkmeyer]

944fan said:

Glad you are starting to recovery. Shoulders can be a bugger. I hit mine about two years ago and it still occasionally has a twinge.

I am sure you already know all this but this book has lots of good injury prevention / recovery exercises for shoulders:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Conditioning-Swim...

Already own it and recommended it to the Physio who saw me as well after I recognized some of the exercises he was giving me!

I have to say though, some of the gym routines in there are long and drawn out. I don't have time for that so stick to 5x5 strong lifts + a few extra swim specific exercises. There is a good few YT channels I use as well. One is TheRaceClub and the other is G. John Mullen. The latter has some good tips and replacement exercises that should achieve the same goals but with reducing the risk of injury.

For instance, he suggests doing body saws instead of hanging knee raises. Takes the strain out the shoulders, still gets you to contract the core and actually, because you're now in a plank position with you feet elevated in some straps, you're actually more or less in a swimming position, having to hold your core tight.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 21st July 11:31

[Otispunkmeyer]

Another decent session last night. Managed to lead the lane, but stayed away from dives on the sprint work.

Technique was scruffy but it was really wavy (we had 3 lanes with 6-7 per lane!) and I just wanted to bust out some high effort really, just to see how I felt and how my shoulder felt. Our main set was:

4 ( 4 x 125)

3 x 125's as 75 steady 50 increased pace on 2:30.
1 x 125 recovery

The goal on the 3 x 125's is to build the 75's. So for instance on the first one you do the 75 at speed 1, the 50 at speed 2. On the next 125 you do the 75 at speed 2 and the 50 at speed 3 and so on.

Given the interval, it meant you could start out pretty fast. I aimed for 80% start pace and 90+ end pace, nicely getting under 1.30 for the last 125.

I was battered by the 4th time through though.